Roger Pellett

I believe in one of Roger Cole’s articles mentioned above about his clinker built Cutter model he talks about using tapered softwood  sheathing below the waterline to allow application of copper.

Roger

There is a series of articles in past issues of the Nautical Research Journal by Canadian Model Builder Roger Cole describing the construction of a lapstrake built RN Cutter.  If my memory is correct, and at the moment I don’t have access to my Journals, there is discussion of coppering a lapstrake hull.

Roger

During the war of 1812 the British built two schooners on Lake Huron.  One was named Tecumpseh.  Remains of Tecumpseh have been investigated by the Nautical Archeology Department of Texas A &M University.  See their website.  Their excellent book Coffins of the Brave also documents archeological evidence for both British and American vessels built during the war of 1812 on the Lakes.  A determined researcher can also find most of this information on their website as many graduate thesises are available for download.

I do not have access to the information at the moment but I believe that I have seen a planking drawing prepared by the RN for Tecumpseh’s construction.

Roger

Mark,

I am not suggesting that you rebuild your model! I am posting this for builders like you that may be looking for accurate information on Sixteenth Century Spanish ships. For some time I have been collecting information on the subject.

First is “The Underwater Archeology of Red Bay” published by Parks Canada.  This five volume set describes the mid-Sixteenth Century Galleon San Juan crushed in the ice in Labrador.  The entire ship, originally built by Basque shipwrights, was disassembled, each part recorded, and a 1:10 scale model built.  This report is a great book buying bargain.  It’s five volumes that take up about a foot on by book shelf cost about $60.00.

Another useful resource is “Vanguard of Empire” by Roger C. Smith it is aimed at late Fifteenth/ early Sixteenth Iberian built vessels.

A well done book about Galleons of the Armada era is Peter Kirsch’s “Galleon”.  In this book, the author uses primary source material to reconstruct an Armada period Galleon.  The Red Bay Archeologists considered this book to be sufficiently authorative to use it in their work.

I recently received “Six Galleons for for the King of Spain”  by Carla Rahn Phillips.  The author, a Professor of European History at the University of Minnesota uses archival material to discuss the 1625  procurement, construction, and life of six Spanish Galleons.  Not a modeling book per-se but lots of interesting background information.

By looking up Parks Canada Research Reports on the Internet I found a preliminary report on the Red Bay Galleon.  This led me to a number of reports on other Iberian wrecks that have been investigated by archeologists.

I hope that forum participants wanting to build a Spanish Galleon from a kit or from scratch will find this useful.

Roger

It seems to me that excluding power tools, MicroMark has two kinds of stuff.  First, Specialty tools that they have either invented themselves or copied from someone else that are mostly junk.  Many of these appear to be aimed at modelers with little no no experience, and could easily be fabricated at home from a few pieces of wood and some nails.

On the other hand, they do have some tools that are useful and “good enough” for the intended service.  For example, a good friend of mine just gave me a cordless Dremel tool that I would like to use for drilling treenails on a POF hull.  MicroMark sells a chuck to adapt it for wire sized drills.  I have also gotten good use from their needle files.  Some get pretty rough usage such as cleaning solder from a joint.

i have never bought any of their power tools.

Roger 

We used to live in Marietta, Ohio that had once been home to a high quality furniture manufacturer and there were still a couple of guys alive that had worked there. My wife put a plastic doily on a nicely polished mahogany end table and it left some marks.  One of these old employees came by with a can of Kiwi wax shoe polish and in a few minutes the marks had disappeared.  45 years later the table still looks great.

Roger

Lapstrake, skin first construction limits hull form to the shape that wood takes naturally when bent - a cubic function.  The skeleton system allowed more choice in hull shape.  Actually, by the 1500’s Irish boatbuilders had been using skeleton construction for many years. The skin covered boats represented a type of skeleton construction.

Roger

The often overlooked question is the technology available to build large vessels.  By the 1500’s Northern builders had 500 years of experience building large lapstrake ships “skin first” without drawings.  I believe that the Draaken? Viking ship that recently visited the US was 80 feet long.  These lapstrake methods also allowed use of timber that had been split rather than sawn.

the skeleton construction technique was based on a geometric methods.  Unless your Irish builders had shipwrights trained in these proprietary techniques, I would lean  to a skin first lapstrake ship.

Roger

I just finished reading two books that might bear tangentially on your thinking.  The first is the World of the Newport Ship.  This is a collection of essays placing the mid fifteenth Century ship excavated in Newport (Wales) in an historic context.  There is nothing about Irish ships, galleys or otherwise but there is much about trading in the region.  The book is published by the University of Wales and is listed on Amazon.

The second is In The Land of Giants by Max Adams.  Max Adams is an Archeologist who lives in Northern England.  His book is about a number of trips that he took in Britain and one in Ireland to try to connect with Dark Age Civilizations.  One trip is to what was once the ancient kingdom of Dal Riata, now part of Scotland’s Western Isles, that was originally colonized by Irish people.  Another describes a “dig” at the Northwestern Irish site of Inishowen.  Again, there is no ship information in this book but as background relating to the ancient ties between the Irish and Scottish cultures it is interesting.

In the Spanish Armada Canpaign the Mediterranean style galleys used by the Spaniards never made it to the English Channel.  If I were a Chieftainess on the West Coast of Ireland, I would want something more seaworthy.  I would lean towards a large Viking/Highland Galley type vessel.

Roger

It would be nice if these kit producers would at least try to market something that would look like a real ship.  With that huge transom extending to the keel, it is hard to see how the ship could have been steered in a straight line let alone making it to the American Contintent.

Roger

I agree with the above, cargo was shored to prevent it from shifting, not tied down. The material used to shore cargo was and still is called dunnage.

Everything that could be reasonably shipped in barrels was.  Barrels were strong, watertight, and their shape when closely stowed prevented some resistance to shifting relative to each other.  Barrels could also be knocked down and reused. Wedges called coates were driven at strategic points to prevent shifting. 

The heaviest and least valuable cargo cargo was placed deepest in the hull.  A layer of plant material could be spread over the ballast to act as a cushion.  Remnants of Spanish heather used as dunnage have been found in the remains of the Newport Medieval Ship sunk about 1470.  Barrels would have been stacked in tiers clear to the bottom of the hold beams of the deck above to further limit their ability to shift. For this reason,the vertical distance between successive  decks was limited to limit the number (and consequently weight) of tiers that could be stacked on each deck. 

The best  analysis of loading a ship of the period that I have found is contained in the analysis of the Red Bay Wreck, a Sixteenth Century Spanish Galleon found in Red Bay Labrador.  “The Underwater Archeology of Red Bay”  five volumes published by Parks Canada includes a lengthy description of cargo loading.  The Red Bay Ship carried a homogeneous cargo- whale oil, but the principles of loading a cargo that would not shift or jeopardize the stability of the ship are unchanged.

Roger

Any news on the location of next year’s event?

Roger

It is also explains why large wooden ships were obsolete by the end of the Nineteenth Century (but temporarily resurrected to meet WW I shipping needs).  The huge wooden keelsons required to reinforce these long inherently flexible structures seriously reduce space to haul cargo.

Of interest is a midships section of a design by Frank Kirby, the preemenant Naval architect on the Great Lakes at the time.  Kirby’s design uses steel to reinforce critical areas of the structure.

Roger Pellett

I have not looked at or read the book in question but I have one of his books: Sovereign:  The Search for the Renaissance Battleship.  It is clearly aimed at a general reader with little or no specialized knowledge.

I do have some ideas for future research.

Was the San Francisco a real ship?  If so was she built in the Basque region of Spain?  Many Spanish ships of the period were.  If so, archeological excavations have yielded some distinguishing characteristics of Basque shipbuilding.  First, these ships do not have the typical keel rabbit and garboard strake construction.  Instead the keel is flanged and thedge of this flange butts against the first strake of planking.  Second, floor timbers lap first futtocks and the lap is joined by a dovetail carved into the adjoining timbers.

The “gold standard” cache of information on Basque shipbuilding is the Archeology report for the “Red Bay Galleon.”  This ship was discovered sunk in Red Bay in Labrador.  The ship was completely excavated by divers, every part was measured, documented and a model was built.  The five volume report was published by Parks Canada and can be ordered from Amazon.

There is quite a bit of information on Spanish wrecks that have been explored on the Texas A&M Nautical Archeology website.

Third, I recommend The Spanish Armada by Colin Maudie.  Maudie has explored the wreck sites of a number of Armada wrecks and has drawn a number of interesting about the ships, the weapons that they carried and how these factors affected the conduct of the battle.

Roger

The single shank version that I described is the economy model.  You are making the premium version!

Roger

My System:  A small nail diven part way into a piece of wood with the head then cut off or you can use a broken drill bit.  Bend the wire around the protrusion and crimp the two legs of the shank together with pliers.  Then cut one of the legs off.  Basic but it works.

Roger

Standing in the pilot house, the pilot could sight across the pole to determine where the boe of the boat was pointing relative to the channel.

Great Lakes vessels built before the current “1000 footers” had their Pilot house in the bow. They also had no frame of reference to determine which the ship was pointing.  This problem was solved by adding a light weight bowsprit called a steering pole to the bow of the ship.  Same idea.

Roger

In his book Tidewater Triumph published by Mystic Seaport in 1998 author Geoffrey Footner includes a drawing found in the archives of the Arsenal of Venice believed to of Enterprize. Footner writes that Enterprize was extensively repaired by the Arsenal in 1804.  The repair involved replacement of her stem post and stern post.

It seems that in 1994 there was a move afoot to build a replica of the ship and that generated a request to the archives.  Two drawings of pilot boat type schooners were discovered in the papers of an Italian Naval Constructor named Andrea Salvini who worked at the Arsenal in 1804 when Enterprize was repaired.  In 1994 a Dr. Mario Marzari was writing a biography of Salvini and found the drawings.  Experts at the Arsenal believe that one of the two drawings is of Enterprize.  

Footner also includes a drawing of Enterprize by noted artist Antoine Roux.  Footner says that the drawing was made in 1806.  The vessel in the Roux drawing has a plain head.  That shown in the Arsenal had a rather long head with head rails. Footner says that both represent Enterprize following her repair.  Perhaps this is a mistake?  Could Roux have made his drawing before 1804 and the Italians have added what appears to be a somewhat exaggerated head during the 1896 repair?

1994 was 24 years ago.  I wonder if Dr Marzari ever published his book and if in doing so he uncovered any additional material.  Maybe our Italian members can shed some light on the matter.

Roger

Re:  Hull Stiffness

The traditional Mediterranean system of building a hull involved planking laid edge to edge with mortises and tenions locking adjacent strakes together.  This required immense labor by highly skilled artisans, but allowed construction of a long, narrow light weight hull.  This would have reduced if not eliminated the need for a continuously planked deck as a structural member.  Even so, I doubt if these vessels enjoyed a long life.

Roger

Steven,

I haven’t gotten into the book yet.  There are a number of short introductory chapters on different aspects including comparison of the Mary Rose picture with the archeological findings.

The real guts of the book is a reproduction of the three parts of the Anthony Roll.  Along with each picture is the written notes that accompanied the picture, typed but in their original spelling.  The book also includes several appendixes one of which is a glossary.  More usual than the usual since it defines many archaic terms.

Roger

Petrozavodsk looks like a pretty place.  I believe that Petrozavodsk and Duluth, MN are Sister Cities.

Roger

I just got a copy of this book published in 2000 by the Navy Records Society

I ordered it from Amazon but it came from Blackwells, Oxford, UK.  Thought you might be interested.

Roger

When I was a child in the 1950’s my father bought a run down farm near Akron, Ohio.  For many years weekends, holidays, and vacations were spent restoring the land and buildings.  The first problem was clearing fence rows of medium sized trees that had been allowed to grow.  A bulldozer knocked down the trees but there were hundreds of uprooted stumps to contend with.  My father decided to blow them apart with dynamite.

In those days dynamite, fuse, and blasting caps were available at our local hardware store, apparently no problem to buy.

To use the stuff you actually poked two holes through the dynamite, threaded the fuse through the holes and stuck the blasting cap on one end.  You lit the other end.  The dynamite worked too well!  Huge pieces of tree stumps simply vanished.

Somewhere, I have some old movies of this that a friend took.  I have been meaning to get them digitized.

Imaging walking into a store today to buy a crate of dynamite.

Roger

I personally find CA glue to be nasty stuff.  If I use it in any quantity it gives me a bad sore throat.  On the other hand the yellow PVA glues are nice to work with, grab fairly quickly and in the uncured state clean up with water.

Roger

The times that I have ordered books from Seawarch I have phoned them.  Always a nice conversation with Bob Friedman about Northern Minnesota and very prompt courteous service.

Roger