JerseyCity Frankie

My two cents is that they would certainly all have had bobstays. I don't want to put words in anyones mouth but I think we can all agree that the object of a cutters rig was to provide the maximum sail area to give the highest possible speed. I find it difficult to believe anyone would load a rig with all that canvas and such a long long bowsprit and then neglect such an important feature as the bobstay. I will concede its possible to omit a bobstay on a running bowsprit on a sailing vessel, but not if you want to have the maximum amount of sail on the rig. Here is a contemporary model of the Hawk 1777 showing a bobstay: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/66275.html

Am I wrong in saying the conventional wisdom is that the guns are fired with the training tackle drawn up tight? The Breaching Rope is intended to take the shock load when the gun jumps backward, but is the training tackle expected to help in damping the recoil of the gun? I find this a bit hard to believe, I don't think a gun tackle can be used as a shock absorber. In the instant after the gun is fired, perhaps eight feet of line would have to race through the blocks in fractions of seconds or part instantly, which I think is more likely. Also a lot of force would be trying to snap the pins within the sheaves and tear out the ringbolts in the few milliseconds the gun was flying inboard. If you have ever used a Handy Billy, a block and tackle tool very much like the Training Tackle of a great gun, you know it will not "ease" very fast, certainly not instantaneously. And if it WERE possible for the Training Tackle to run that fast, the coils or flakes on deck would instantly fly inboard with the gun, presenting an angry whipping danger to all those clustered around the gun when it went off, six or eight crewmembers with their handspikes and rammers would have to get their limbs out of the way and their bodies inboard to avoid the line or risk having some part of their anatomy wrenched or taken into the swallow of the blocks. What makes a lot more sense to me is that the training tackle would be unhooked from the gun and run out on deck in the moments before firing, allowing the crew with handspikes to hold the gun in position and the breaching rope alone to take the shock load of the recoil. The blocks would be overhauled slightly so the tackle would be in the correct position to be hooked on again to prepare for the next shot. I admit this scenario stretches credulity too in that the guys with handspikes would need superhuman situational awareness and the danger of a semi-loose cannon would be faced every time the guns were used.

Keeping the Yardarm Tackle rigged all the time never made any sense to me. Allowing the fall of the tackles to hang in loops REALLY makes no sense to me. Crew on the yard would always have to negotiate the line, particularly if it was left loose and could blow around their feet as they clung to the yard, or blew in their face as they went over the futtocks. On the other hand, if it was kept tight it would surely have a negative effect on bracing the yards. I'm sure when the time came to rig out a boat there would be enough hands available to rig the falls with the block aloft kept in place. But on the other hand, maybe they tried that and found it was dangerous not to have the boats instantly available?

Can you tell us which museum has this Pandora model?

I am devouring the Frigate version of this book, recently published. If the Ship of the Line book is anything like the Frigate book it will certainly be a Must Have. The Sailing Frigate A History in Ship Models by Robert Gardener 128 page hardcover with luscious high quality color photos covers the history of the development of this class of vessel from the 1600's through the 1850's. The author takes you through the design philosophy and political considerations that caused frigates to pass through different incarnations. Its a great source of information and worth the price for the wonderful photos alone. I am really looking forward to the Ship of the Line version of the book and hope it will not be long delayed.

If I had ANY of the series of these books I would not part with them. They are rather expensive and difficult to come by and these attributes are matched with spectacular comprehensive content that is beautiful. Its on my list of "if I ever win the lottery" things I would buy for myself if price was no object, in fact they would be near the top of the list.

As Henry says above, they are for larger stuff. If there is a haws hole indicated on your model near the location of a kevel built into the bullwarks, this is where a dockline would come inboard and be belayed to the kevel. So it may be you won't have any line on your models kevel unless you're intending her to be tied up on a pier.

Another useful line but one not always indicated on rigging plans is the Gantline. Its a medium sized line running almost like a flag halyard to a block near the masthead. Its only use is for lifting objects aloft, or a person in a boatswains chair. The Runner Pendants cant lift anything even into the tops, and there is a constant need for equipment on the masts. Anything the men can't carry themselves into the rig goes up on the gantline.

They strike me as odd ropes to have around too. If you need to have a purchase aloft, why not just put a line around the masthead over the Trestle Trees? I guess you would need twenty more feet of rope to do it that way, if you didn't have the tackles hanging there. And I suppose the fact that they are there on every ship speaks to the fact they must have tried getting along without them and came to the conclusion they were better to have than not.

This topic is covered pretty comprehensively in another thread here somewhere. In short, the flag is tied to a Flag Halyard that is run through a very small block or sheave at the very top of the mast. If its a sheave its set directly into the cap on the masthead. The flag halyard material is some of the thinnest line on the whole ship so on your model make it the thinnest stuff you have. its one long line that runs all the way up to the masthead then all the way back down to the deck, this way the flag can be set or struck by someone standing on the deck, you don't have to climb up there to get it. It will belay immediately aft of the aftermost line coming off the mast it is on. No other line coming off the mast in question will belay behind this line. Its the highest line on the mast so it will be the aftermost line on the pinrail.

Kevels use the same friction principle as Belaying Pins and Cleats do. The end of the working line is taken to the Pin, the Cleat or the Kevel and three figure eight turns are taken around the two projections each of these things have. Its assumed the line is under strain or will be under strain. When the strain comes on the line, friction occurs where the line crosses over itself at the center of each figure eight turn. There is also friction where the line makes the 180 degree turns around the projections, but the main holding power comes from the line being made to press down on itself at the center of those figure eight turns.

In a remarkable coincidence I was just this very evening reading an account of the shelling of Hartlepool in Robert K Massie's excellent Castles of Steel. Reading it for the second time. Its even better than I remembered it. I think all MSW people interested in Steel Navy should certainly have it on their shelf.

Hello Sam welcome to Model Ship World. I see this is your first post, congratulations. Flying Fish is a nice subject too. I did a quick web search and found this amazing treasure trove of information: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/News/BDA/BDA(1851-11-04).html According to this source, the Fore is 70', the Main is 80' and the Mizzen is 59' long. You have not mentioned the scale of the version you are building but if you know the scale, you should be able to do some simple math and come up with the measurement in inches the model yards should be.

Thats astonishing work! Check out my solid hull Leopard. Its also a small scale very similar to yours.

Lettie stopped in Jersey City for fuel a month or so ago and I got a few snaps. Here is a shot showing the boltrope. I blew up the detail and inserted it in the oval inset.

Another factor in favor of the boltrope is that including the boltrope makes making the tack sheet and head cringles or rings that much easier as you simply form tiny loops in the boltrope at the three corners of the sail. Lettie has metal thimbles on her sails.

I photograph the flags in maritime paintings whenever I come across them. I have been adding to this collage now and then. These shots are nearly all of commercial ocean carrier type cargo ships of the late 1800's. Note that in many cases the hoist starts with a number and there are nearly always four letter flags beneath. Not sure if this helps but I am throwing it in there.

Just out of curiosity, what commercial product were you using for the Bitumen? Is it even available commercially?

I'm a huge knot nerd and I am glad to see a conversation here about knots. Naturally, sailors are the best at tying knots and ship model builders can only benefit by learning some of the knots of the sailor. Model builders though probably only need to know a very few knots in order to aid in rigging their ships. The Overhand Knot and the Clove Hitch being the two absolute essentials. I am a big promoter of the Constrictor Knot too as I think it easily has a place among the "top ten" most useful knots. If I was to make a short list of "least know but most useful knots" the Constrictor would be my only submission. Sailors will argue endlessly about which are the ten knots everyone on a ship should know. They all agree the Bowline, Clove Hitch, Reef Knot, Sheet Bend and Rolling Hitch should be on the list but will begin to argue about what the other five should be. There are so many choices. Personally I would leave the Sheet Bend off the list but I know this is a heretical opinion. I just never have any confidence in it as I have too often seen it misbehave in different types of line.

Here is a photo I took on the Pride of Baltimore II showing a rope stropped block with a becket. This block has a becket on the bottom, the part with the shackle through it holding it to the ringbolt in the deck. On your model the becket is larger than the one shown and is the part that is fitted around the boom. The rope grommet which IS the Strop was made large enough to fit around the block AND have enough material left over to form the two seized eyes on either side of the block. In this case the strop was served and leathered to keep it from chafing. The seizings which formed the eyes were done with a lighter colored line and show up well in the photo. Metal thimbles are set into the seized eyes but this is not always done. On your model you will have to make up some sort of loop of line appropriately thick enough for your strop, and long enough to go around the block, the spar on one side of the block and the small eye on the other. Making the seizings to form the eyes should present no trouble.

...And don't forget the gold doubloon nailed into the after side of the Main Mast! Chains for the lightning rod in the chains of the ship, which Ahab ignores. Tiny details but Ahab had two holes bored in the deck in order to hold his ivory leg. Queequeg's coffin turned into the life Buoy. The French engraver Baugean always showed a life ring dangling aft of the tafrail hanging under the boom. Hanging a tiny coffin off the model would be very cool.

I'm reading Moby-Dick again right now. Best novel ever? maybe. I jotted some notes while reading it, on page 321 of my addition in the chapter The Grand Armada the line ..."With stun-sail piled on stun-sail we sailed along...." so Pequod has Stunsails. A couple times in the novel they mention the Sperm Whale jaw used as a tiller. When Melville introduces the carpenter (chapter 107) he tells us the carpenters bench lives "Athwartships against the rear of the tryworks". In the same chapter its noted that Stubb's whaleboat oars have red stars painted on the blades. I am tempted to build a pequod, I am every time I read the novel, but I am also tempted to build the barque Sunbeam, which Clifford Ashley painted so many times. Ashley wrote The Yankee Whaler and sailed on a whaling voyage. He also wrote The Ashley Book of Knots, which he is best known for. But in his paintings he shows a lot of detail of the Sunbeam, giving us more to go on for a model than Melville did.

I can never resist putting in my two cents on the issue of weather or not to include sails on a sailing ship model. I always try to advocate for including the sails since I view them as a defining aspect of a sailing vessel. The argument against sails is most often framed from the perspective that "they block the view of details on the model" and that they "are difficult". I will certainly agree that they are difficult! But I don't think that is an excuse to leave them off the model. The idea that they block the view of other aspects of the ship is true only in the sense that actual sails block the view of actual aspects of an actual ship. Thats how actual ships appear. Incidentally there are other things that are difficult to manage on ship models which ALSO block the view of deck details and are time consuming and difficult to make and install: Cannons! But you NEVER see people omit the cannons.

Flag hailyard line is going to be the thinnest rigging on the whole ship. I don't know the scale of the model you are building but its likely you don't need any special blocks secured aloft for the flag hailyards on your model, the real ones would be smaller than the palm of your hand. Your plan seams to indicate a ring at the masthead, if this is intended for the flag hailyard I would omit it. The ball at the top of the mast is called the Truck. Often the truck on an actual ship has the sheaves for two flag hailyards cut into it. Otherwise the Truck is merely ornamental. Its likely that if you have a kit supplied truck that it will be too big and out of scale, find something at home that is the right size- the Truck should not be more than a few scale inches wider than the masthead itself. If it was me, I would run a single line of the smallest thread I could find directly to the Truck. Rigging generally belays on deck in such a way that the higher up in the rigging the line originates, the farther aft it belays on the rails at the bulwarks. So your flag hailyard at the masthead is the highest bit of rigging on the mast and should be belayed farthest aft of all the rigging for that mast on the rail.

I found this shot on my computer, don't know what ship or model it is off of. This is not the first time I have seen the horizontal scored appearance of the buoy itself which suggests to me they are solid constructed bread and butter fashion? That would make them rather heavy, is it possible they are cork? Until this thread started me thinking about it I had always assumed the buoys were made like barrels, hollow, but that would not explain the horizontal scores.