Kevin-the-lubber

Credit where it's due, I think those were the hands of the original builders as all I've done is copy from the plans, with some important help from your good self. But it's surprising how chubby and crude the kit part looks against the 'plans' version, isn't it. This is the pick of the litter for me though, the gig, which has the most beautiful lines. I may make this one a little side project and do it separately at about 1/30 or 1/40. It would make a very nice windowsill ornament with all the trimmings. I'm hoping to find time to pop up to Greenwich next week for another photo session and this would be on the 'to-do' list.

And..... breathe top = kit; bottom = mine left = kit; right = mine

I think we're using quite similar methods, tailored to our respective CAD packages. As mentioned, I also corrected the two ends manually. I didn't find this too time-consuming in F360, I think it was mostly a case of projecting the guide rails onto a flat sketch, then correcting the two ends, plotting their positions on the end profiles, then remaking the guide rails to incorporate the ends. This is what I did at the ends, compared to the centre profiles: I used exactly the same overlapping approach as for the centres, but without the clinker offset. I didn't shape the frames to the strakes, the strakes just sit on the frames. I don't know if this is how it is in real life? At this scale (1:100) you wouldnt be able to see the notching anyway.

ps. sorry, I meant to ask - what's wrong with your planks, they look pretty good from here? In fact your model looks way better than mine, you've already sorted out the tricky sections at the ends. Whatever you're doing, I'd carry on with that.

I fudged it in the end. I really wanted something that was mathematically driven - I'm sure you know what I mean - but I couldn't figure out a methodology for the end profiles. I basically did what you see below; I got a smooth skin by lofting a whole-mould-based set of profiles (the green lines here) which I used to fair the shape. In faact I had very little fairing to do as (I think) whole-moulding generates smooth curves. I then drew strake profiles in a clinker pattern, evenly spaced in the station profile, and lofting rails for each strake, otherwise it all goes a bit mis-shapen; and lofted each strake individually. I had to abandon the maths at either end as the end profiles are perpendicular and don't lend themselves to mathematical segmentation, so I projected the rail lines and extended them to get the placings for the strakes and tweaked by eye until they looked right. (It gets more and more like real shipbuilding as you go along!). I tried to make a single clinkered station profile i.e. to loft all 10 strakes simultaneously, but got nowhere, I think this geometry was way too complex for F360's engine. Last but not least, and I'm guessing you've done something similar, I did another shell (one of the inner smooth lines on each profile), thickened, then split it (intersected actually, in F360 speak) to get the frames.

Tabycz, are you interested in talking geeky methodology? I know this can be very boring for some 🙂. I've just finished modelling a clinker built boat in F360 and had to jump through hoops to loft the planks, would be interesting to compare notes as I doubt my way was the best. Waldemar, that's the lifeboat you helped me with, couple of quick snaps below, whole moulding was perfect. I'm in the middle of painting them so the seats are not yet glued in but (IMO) these little boats look gorgeous once they're all painted up. I'll do a proper log entry when it's finished but I've posted photos of the gig and jolly boat on my cutty sark log.

Very well done Bill, you’ve got that done far more quickly than I expected. Everyone talks of it taking years! Boats…. they’re my current preoccupation too.

Bill, I just did a good catch up on your build, it’s looking fabulous with all that rigging. You must be quite close to finishing now?

I've spent far more time on these boats than I should, but it's been interesting and enjoyable. I'm still working on the lifeboat but here are the jolly and gig (which is omitted from the kit). For info, I had to fiddle with the thicknesses of several areas including the hull because scaling down to 1/96 resulted in paper thin parts, but I think the end result is a pretty fair representation. Revell's jolly boat. Not too bad, a bit crude and clunky though. The real jolly boat The model. The paintwork is much darker in the flesh, similar to the real thing; I over-exposed the photo just to show the detail a little more clearly. I omitted the little circular badges on the prow, too small for painting. The sleek gig; if I was a sailor this is what I'd want to drive 🙂

Ian, I tried using handheld scanning with a phone to map Hellers victory quarter galleries last year, but for reasons I forget I gave up on it. I think I was only able to get the rough shape but I’d need something better for the level of detail I was seeking. I imagine a proper 3D scanning setup might be better, but that’s way too expensive for this hobbyist. Modelling the boats has been an education in this respect. I was gifted a full size, finished 3D model of the jolly boat, but making that fit for my purposes meant recreating it entirely in Fusion 360. Essentially, I could only use it ‘as is’ or as an excellent reference. I think photogrammetry may be similar, for modelling: an approximation, but you’ll have to do so much post-scan work that you may as well do it by measurement, if that’s possible. But I’m all ears if anyone has had more success with it.

Thanks Bob, I saw your Robert E Lee on your CS log, looks lovely and that’s fast work! I’ll have to take a look at the build log. I hope you’re making a good recovery - spinal surgery is serious stuff. I’m having an ankle fused in two or three months time, and even that makes me nervous. On the bright side I should have some recovery time to spend on models! I’m just finishing off the replacement boats and will post some photos soon. It’s been a lot of work, most of which won’t even be seen since they’ll be upside down, but I wanted to understand how to model these in the software and to have ‘stock’ clinker built boats that I can recycle on other models. I’ve started modelling the masts and yards so I’ll be behind you on rigging as modelling anything from scratch always takes a lot of time. In fact I’ve started modelling the hull, which would mean nothing on the ship would be revell, but as that will be a project in itself I’ll do that as a separate build down the line, possibly at about 1/75 or even 1/50.

My view is this: whatever looks most right and gets you closest to what you want with the least amount of work. In other words, the line of least resistance. I don't know about you but I find fairing on a computer to be much more difficult than if I was doing it to a piece of timber. No options here to run your hand along it with your eyes closed, feel the little bumps.

I don’t know if this will be at all helpful as I sense you really do want a true scarf joint; but me, I would fake it, and engrave the lines into the wood. (Actually, since I 3D print everything, I would just design them in). I don’t know how rhino works but in f360, if I wanted a true scarf, I would loft one part from top to bottom using guide rails, then cut the matching half with the lofted one and probably offset the face of one of them by a little for a bit of clearance.

Easily done, isn’t it, I glued the catheads on wronghanded last week. Bill, the ink I’ve mostly used is Windsor & Newton Peat Brown, but that was because I particularly wanted a reddish hue to mimic varnished teak. I also have a pot of W&N nut brown which is similar, I suspect, to walnut. The only reason I bought W&N is because that’s what’s in my local art store 300 yards away, and I like to support local shops wherever possible instead of adding to Jeff’s obscene levels of wealth. (Why would anyone want so much money - as my gran used to say, there are no pockets in a shroud). And I’m in a similar place to many of you when it comes to doing jobs around the house. I find myself looking at all my machinery - the planer/thicknesses, the saws, bench drill, biscuit joiner etc etc and thinking, shall I sell them now, am I really going to do the remaining jobs if I retire next year. You lose the enthusiasm once there’s more pain than gain 🤕

Thanks Bruma, I know that is all very good advice. I'm a lot more gentle on myself now than I was a year ago, with the Victory; if I don't feel like doing something, or want to work on another area of the ship, I just do. And I know what you mean about there being no irrelevant parts, these ships were masterpieces of design and everything is there for a reason.

You could always do what I did, and take up 3D printing. It doesn’t have the same satisfaction as making something by hand but, if like me you can’t do that anyway, you still have the design challenges.

I will indeed. Don't hold your breath, these boats are fiddly to do and it might take me a while to get to the end point (though I hope not too long)

Perfect, many many thanks Waldemar. I'll need to spend an hour or two properly digesting and playing around with this at the weekend and then compare the outcome with the quick'n'dirty version below, done as outlined in post #7.

Hi Kris Well, F360 is free for hobbyists. It has it's foibles and can be frustratingly clunky at times but I've managed to find ways to do everything I've wanted so far, including clinker hulls (screengrab below), despite on many occasions saying I was going to properly try Rhino with a view to switching. Declaration of self-interest here, I'd love someone who has used both tools to give an objective appraisal so I know if Rhino is worth the learning curve and cost! (These boats are a work in progress but they print fine) I don't know if it can import rhino files but it can certainly import .fbx files. Though working with these is a bit of a PITA as they come through as meshes. I suspect you really won't need this but I found this F360 tutorial very helpful to get going quickly https://diyodemag.com/education/exploring_3d_part_1_beginners_guide_to_fusion_360 Good luck, it would be good to hear what you land on, what it's like etc. I've just had a pretty quick skim through your build log and FYI, I've initially lofted each strake separately as F360 can give you the runaround with lofting if the profiles are too complex (relatively speaking) but I'm no expert on this. Just noted that you look like you've lofted as whole station profiles on yours. I'll try to find the time to read your log properly over the next week as you seem to have run into problems with Rhino but here's a link to a man who can almost certainly help you there

Waldemar, many thanks, that's exactly what I'm looking for, the logical projection method. I have forgotten so much over the years. Have you used a constant radius based on the '0' station? From a pattern developers perspective I think that is all that's needed to get a fair shape from these three views.

Gosh but this is getting a bit involved! For what it's worth, my experience of shop floor engineering, as a craftsman, is that very little was really done by eye. Back in the '70's we used to make 10 foot long, 3 foot diameter helixes on a forge and would swear blind it was all art, neglecting to mention the many templates used to get the right twist. So while it's perfectly possible that the cutty's boats were made by eye, many other boats would have been made using scientific methods like whole moulding. What I'm interested in is those methods, rather than getting hold of lines plans - I have enough info from the 3D jolly boat to produce the goods, but I'll be none the wiser as to how boatbuilders knew the station profiles to begin with.

I agree Roger, this has nothing to do with CAD, it’s a process question. What I’m asking is whether there are common methods for deriving the profiles and the answer seems to be yes, lots of them, and it depends on the type of boat, the era, and where in the world the boat is from. I think I’ll see what I can learn from the references but at 1/96 anything close to the sketches will be more than good enough.

Bill, I like the look of that and it's very nicely explained. Have you seen Bruma's sails on his Cutty Sark? Absolutely exquisite, but far too ambitious for me this time round. Ditto Rob's method on his Glory of the Seas, which is a completely different approach.

Hi Bill, I also now just catch up on others logs periodically via the weekly digest, as I was spending more time on logs than the model! The sails are a dilemma, aren’t they. For me this is largely because I don’t yet know if I have the ability to make something that I’ll be happy with. This is one area where 3D printing probably isn’t going to be the way to go, though I’ll certainly be giving it a go.

Hi Henry, lofting is key here. At present I’m lofting each plank/strake and using rails to hold the shape. Also using f360 by the way.