Vladimir_Wairoa
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Thank you Rob. I must add lowering stern pretty much destroyed elegant shape of stern we had as it proportionally moved down it shortened main line coming up from rudder and now i would say it loogs ugly to me... i m working to reconstruct it somehow to the same proportions accordingly....angling sternpost downwards would sort it out as it would lenghten the line again but....we dont want that i guess...:)- 3,551 replies
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OK ive done lots today. i reconstructed sheer, basically turning it, so it maintained elegant line. it lowered at the aft sheer to total 1.3 FT its very slight but gradual move up, giving it about 19 taffrail to waterline now, and it upwarded also bow up giving it 24 something from watterline so i am pretty satified. I only need to add body vertical volume to 22 FT i think its without keel....and i think we have her....but I need these all changes now apl;y to bulkheads . that will do over weekend. thanks for checking. She appears completely changed now, her prow rising upwards a bit higher and stern buyoantly very slightly rises butjust a bit.... you can see on stanchions how much i lovered her butt. a lots of pics to follow...so you can see new sheer and process of it.... new sheer old upper new lower
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Meanwhile I corrected / proportioned postition and thickness of sheers on the wales proprerly against each other..., which also widened a bulwarks. .I took printscreen and positioned its relative to drawing.....I added two thin streams inside of sheer thicker moldings.....going along ...it looks a bit crowded from small view but thats how it is....
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i will play with measurements today first thanks for liking cutty, it is just photo etch, so not really my contribution there, and I must apologize folks, as seems I was measuring sheer wrongly before...i didnt note its deck line in relation to flatness of it...sorry for that. This is such learning process of naval fundamentals for me alongside research, so i am posting correct sheer measures now as well as bulwarks....measured at perpendiculars... though difference between fore and aft gives roughly nice 8' sheer...i assume its how the number is determined if not ill learn again.... stern sheer is 2.1 FT converting from inches. do you want me to lower it to 1 FT ? so it will be 1 FT above flat line at the end of stern...half of how is now.... that it would go to 9' difference...
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One more photo of glorys stern...bw with strong shade are good to show 2D image......interesting....even there is slight curve its i would say quite dramatic lean out from what was first almost circle . what unexpected journey. But this picture leaving all in the shade can alarm us wrongly that her stern is massive...we know from other photos how slim and elegant is as I put yellow line behind sushine all aftwards is going inward ...
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beautiful sketch your artistic hands shows. I will say its pretty much as I incorporated it in 2 D profile draw. I would say guys we need to remember that 2D profile picture is just FLAT sight and for human eyes is pretty dull and boring as we are used to acceept percept and visualize automatically in 3 D. even yourdraw is 3 D shape but showing that outlining share that I observed there and tried to compose it myself. 2 D flat profile will never ever look like 3 D and..... we all are used to see that simple round stern of clippers but those pictures and photographs are almost all taken from distance / where those outlining molding dissapear and it looks like round.....I remember this when cosntructing cutty sark... all we are doing is closest look work like those carpenters were standig one meter close to her planks. I would say they didnt see round stern at all the plate (wooden ) or area where you have name glory is pretty much flat for sure . its visible also in famous photo at the beach where she is dragged up to the shore before she is burnt.... i will try to demnostrate it on small cutty model I have. if we look from very near we can see straight flat profiled line from rudder up...2D. and it is indeed straight....but we see round from far away . how come ? because 2D and 3 D deception plays role here ...as we move back , our brain is able to calculate surrounding round and curved planks around that created even more round feel than it is. and not to forget, moldings that pretty make it look almost squarishly proportioned dissapear from far and dissapearance help to our eyes to form round cohesive object......kind of not broken with disturbance of molding which apear uncomfortly BIG from near and disappear from far...so our brain is not focused on disturbing detail which breaks apart lovely round feel.......but eyes automatically embrace whole shape....
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There is still more work needed Rob i agree. it needs to be lowered as whole i hope it will show differently. thanks a lto for remark. V.
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Very interesting comments Richard thanks. I myself was playing with idea that it even leans inwards from that photo but i am not sure i would dare going that direction as we dont know exact angle. this is not definite as i am toing to lower the stern still a bit more. i would say that angle is even steeper than this as stern will sit down a bit . ... yes i noticed those small strips around i will add them. regarding stanchions. those are just figurative atm their thickness noe shape aaprt of height iwas calculated ...i will try to create exact match later. V.
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I think this is a lot better. There is just tiny slight move into curve line and it looks way different from nearpoint and from the far. From the closeup all main longest line from the rudder up looks even vertical from closeup look, quite round from very far....try to look at these draws from both perspectives, near and far...its strange how different isnt it? one most inportant thing. all the photos of stern are taken from various perpectives....so we can only assume two most importantlongest lines shaping it . corelation and position of those two is most important to give fundamental shape..... so we can for sure say few things i guess. monkey rail part is vertical . and at the moldings meetup, shapes are starting their new way towards other linkup...all together create a shape. We can also fay for sure that sheer segment (where name of the ship sits we is not curvy at all but its straight under certain angle.....and this is part of the charm...position of it in regards to lower long line creates that curve plus monkey rail being straingt up turining it brutally but on small length...! you can see I drew almost NO curve with both longest lines - almost vertical... and its position towards each other with otherw forms nice curvy stern....i would say farer it is curvier it is.and nearer we see woodworking deatailing where moldings sit...differently. i think its heading to far more realistic outcome than this first simple round below.,..... and that its enough for today from me. looks like a lot been done again from all. eager to know how you see it. v.
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I am seeing more complex shape than simple curve....something like this... which at the end evoke round stern as described to the sight taking to account curve below sheerstrake with line above it...with complexity of planking of sections around strakes it doesnt look like undisturbed curve even on cutty sark when looking pretty closely from the narpoint, which is precisely what we are trying to achieve here...
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Yes yes, and yes... I agree wholeheartedly regarding this. Im gonna change it and i know how now. This is much important segment to get right-close. There is defnitely not quarter circle curvature...thank you for pics. helps a lot indeed.
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Richard, whoooa, not having you Guys, would be useless task for me for sure. I noticed broken spray rail, but Ididnt think much more can be damaged, sily me. I am pleaaased to hear from you that hood finally settled I call this an achievement. Interesting stuff about bowsprit angles, I couldnt not measure it towards seaharbour line....anyway I left it at 21 degrees. regarding stern ....that is way tougher nut to crack, for sure as I requires reconfiguation of bulkheads / but not only shortening them but calculating corresponding curvature ! so I am leaving this at it is i managed to lower it to 1 foot, as well as monkey rail....but thats about it for the moment. yes RIchard i have same feeling that stern is still smaller in reality observing photos..but ....I will look into it later if I can find a nondestructive way and skill to properly lower bulkheads without moving with its curvature.. If you trace that line, it appears to be a perfect match for the beginning of the Naval Hood. It's very difficult to see because it's neatly matched to the Hull. just FYI i am now working with rounding top of the bulkheads to form curvy base for floor calculating 12 cinch waterway so lowering them to that which is pretty straightforward. after I will return to thinking about how to manage the stern. Appreciated and thank you.
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I am very curious what you all say ..completely reshaped....stern lowered. hood shortened, below hood widened and shortened, etc...
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Rob, going to work on tis topic this evening . i can plausibly use both sources your measurments and layering real glory photo up to the srawing which is way precise than my old approach. pencil - which was pretty silly in accuracy respect ...
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well actually i had same feeling from late photos - definitely to work about this....thx Another item to be refined is Glory's Stern. If you look at her magnificent 1877 dockside photo, it's readily apparent that her Stern, while slightly higher than her lowest point, midway of the Main Shrouds, is much lower than her Bow V.
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This is noted as well . will revise as above photograph we or I didnt have in time of drafting is of a significant help . even hood ornamentation is to be depicted i would say pretty acurate from it. as other poorer photos deasnt show each details... Pity below ornament is washed out. if not it would be complete 100 reference of the bow.... i have plenty to work on...:)
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Very important reminder , thanks . i will foloow this today evening, its clearly observable that pespective again took its toll. second photographed from much below resulted in steeping curvature more agressively. i will check on this one.
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exactly. this will be exciting i am measuring her in scale but need a bit o assistance here. ...... seems point of waterline to be lower is correct and pays off in favor of 20 degrees bowsprit angle, and apex of bow above WL gives me 25' now. however in cost of WL reaching 20' which is simply wrong. grrrr. i will post pics. few discrepancies here folks. Rob states copper line of glory from keel 22 feet. but i read in Michel book copper line 25 ' ....1 strake about loadline which is normally 24' . this adds to confusion a bit to me...from Michael we have depth of hold measure but that doesnt help really. despite of this all fundamentals pretty much sets, I count this for half of foot missalignments which is easy to correct in program... well here goes.....its pretty clear from photographs...there are ones with waterline. One more thing I need to correct seemingly, sheer is stated 7 foot, and it gives me 8 something at the stern, looks like i have to lover it it is very high up.... I straightened sternpost, etc.... goodnight now here you can see Michaels WL mark , apex 23,3 FT this is with higher WL mark . allowing only 17 degrees angle...20 would be pretty off ...below... lowered WL about 2 feets but only 20 FT below after lowering WL...:(((
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can i give you this Richard? ❤️ ? thanks a milion . i know what you and Rob need here - measures ! as it is very blatant to look at whatever drawing and it speaks nothing of a precision... so i am going to measure drawing upside down for myself and you so you have something more valuable to see and comment on...but it will take ne few evenings as i am busy with other work during day so please bear with me. This helped me enormously. Vlad
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Apreciated Richard, thank you. I will go to drawingboard by evening. My assumption masts position might be off also proves some photos. Distance of foremast is way forward in his placing i can say for sure. V.
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Thanks Richard i take it favourably as a big help in process. i will show all degrees tomorrow nevertheelss i spent paintstaking time and work already and would be foolish if i ignored your wisdom. already seted calculations abotu masts and there are some discrepancies bettween Michaels drawing and ohotographs observed already...bowsprit oh well. wont allow me 20 degreed or - i have hood positioned rather agressively with tip facing a little too more into bowsprit.... with that line it might not represent waterlone its either 2 wl or bulkhead cut position mark taken from book draw....oh by the way @Rob, there is no scale atm i work in percentage scaling so i can size her whatever screen allows ... thanks for sternpost mentioning yes i took it from Michael drawing i will straighten it tmw. I expect there to be some compromises and probably even slight measure offlinesin my hull but i dont expect fundamental flaws at this point. when i see wghat some companies did to cutty sark stern shape...i mean .... mess by mess....
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thanks Rob. well its water lien mark from Michaels book but frankly im not certain could it be 2 wl mark maybe? tmw evening i will play with bowsprit ans mast angles. i will need a bit of your sharp eye with adjusting to achieve 21 degrees at the mast touch guys , but its just a littel doinciding with cheek tip. im probably willing to sacrifice one degree as i know if i move that cheek a tiny bit i will destroy the shape of it completely what i dont want...more of it tmw. well yes, i got last year friendly contact to one guy who made me cut already for quite a cheapish price so im going to have it definitely cut. i can work around late summer / autumn on hull ...and thinking of researching for deck and cabins thri next winter along zull is completed. pretty exciting plans. once i have her on paper im a bit more donfident. till then V .
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well Guys, I could not sleep last two nights . Probably her ghosts were hunting me There she is... its quite meticulous work, I will continue working on detailing her when i have time..., looks like masts holes are what i forgot, need to find out angles. this is pretty much Michaels glorys design with reshaped bow, I would say it is ready for laser cut i am quite confident, only with little sanding due to tenths of milimeter. probably snug fit even better. I put position for A bulkhead I consider optional, with centerline bulkhead already with shaped bowsprit angle and those important cheeks position.
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congratulations Matt. Very nice, she is dressed to show off
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