BANYAN
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Everything posted by BANYAN
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
BANYAN replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
John, having looked at your idea of a Spanish Burton, which I had not even considered, if all three blocks are used this would work if a 'purchase winch' was used. However, the Rigging Warrant lists 4 x 10" and 2 x 9" SINGLE blocks, which suggests two guntackle purchases, with perhaps each being tailed with a runner (whip)? Here is a workable configuration for a 'Spanish burton' arrangement for the gin blocks (which will have alternated between Port and Stbd for the fore and main masts). Still need to bite the bullet and go by the Rigging Warrant listing or by the Contract Specification - the correspondence is silent on this, and unfortunately the imagery does not show either configuration. The following (and previous post) is looking from the front. Thanks again John Pat
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
BANYAN replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
All possibilities guys; thanks for looking in and the suggestions. This is the problem I am facing - with no description by any author that uses all of the listed (Rigging Warrant) items in a conventional arrangement, it is proving difficult to identify the rigging configuration. I am simply trying to find a practical way of setting it up. I will look into your idea of a Spanish burton John. Rob, that is a variation on what one of the authors offers where a luff was set-up to one side and a guntackle to the other so that when all hands were on deck, the guntackle could be used, and if only one watch on deck, then the luff was used - BUT, this required only a single gin block. I will relook at the variation you propose though. cheers Pat- 993 replies
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This model is coming along beautifully Rob, some lovely detail. cheers Pat
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Thanks for sharing Mark; possibly one of the very few good things to come from a drought. Hopefully, someone will record it. cheers Pat
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Thanks, I had seen this technique before and promptly had forgotten it. cheers Pat
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
BANYAN replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
Thanks Tony, yep the 'purchases' or halliards as they were correctly termed are a separate problem. The listed blocks (4 x 10" and 2 x 9") are 'single' so the only arrangement can be for them to be made up as 'gun tackles' with a a runner (whip). As they are listed with 'travellers' (long strops attached to the fly block) which ran up-and-down the topmast backstay, they had to be set-up with the standing blocks in the channels. This meant they were not 'up-and down' tackles but oblique to the direction of effort - very unusual arrangement? I really would like to find another example of this arrangement described by a contemporary (Kipping, Nares, Luce etc) or more modern author (such as Underhill, Harland etc) - unfortunately they all describe permutations of the more common single 'pendant with purchase'; or double purchase (one as a luff, the other a gun tackle). cheers Pat- 993 replies
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
BANYAN replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
Hi guys, a small bit of progress - see below a piccy of the PE for the tops - the fold line will enable me to create the angle-iron trestrees and the after ends of the rim for the 'D" fore rims. I will need to attach the rest of the rim front, and drill out for the various eyebolts (start holes already etched). I am also back to the Tyes and Purchases/Halliards again. Having progressed to other things, I revisited this and realised I had got it all wrong and need to sort out the topsail tyes again. Here is the predicament - the Specification called for the fitting of Purchase winches for the topsail yard. The correspondence from the ship build superintendent (that I have been able to access so far) is silent on them. As this person was very detailed and informative in his very regular reports, it is unlikely he will have neglected to inform if these had been omitted. The Rigging Warrant does not mention them but does offer a very complex arrangement that does not align with the arrangements described by any of the contemporary or more modern authors consulted. The Rigging Warrant lists the tye for the fore topsail as 68’ of 9/16” chain with “Gin on Yard and 2 Hanging Gins Iron”. It also lists a halliard associated with the fore topsail tye, made up from 27 fathoms of 2½” hemp rope, associated with four 10”, and two 9” single blocks, and two travellers under the ‘Thimbles’ column. The only way such a list of items could be configured (as far as I can determine) is for the gins to set up as shown in the following image (I drew up in CAD). The tails of the chain have long links for the associated halliards. As two traveller thimbles + 4 by singles blocks suggests two separate halliards. Halliards were normally a pendant set-up to the port channel (for the foremast) and the purchase to starboard. The only arrangement I can determine here is that two separate up-and-down halliards with a runner (whip) was used? Any other ideas guys? cheers Pat
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Couldn't agree more Tony, makes my build feel slower than snail pace; but Steven also maintains quality. cheers Pat
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Great diorama Greg, love the 'dhoby' (laundry items) Some seriously nice work in this one. cheers Pat
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Welcome Mark; look forward to seeing this build. As a 'starter' a cross-section that includes planking, at least one gun, a mast etc will help you develop the necessary skills. There are many fine examples of these in the forums. cheers Pat
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Thanks for the offer Clipper, the photo is fine for my needs. I have to agree, keeping up with that pair is difficult cheers Pat
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Clipper, those are some truly nice drawings you are producing and will add to the collective understanding of the ship. Great photo also, I store that one away, is it one of yours? Rob, the model is coming on very nicely; you're adding some really nice detail. cheers Pat
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Looks great Rob, a really nice job. WRT the the colour on the bottom, this was more to hide the build up of grime etc (from swabin' the decks etc) rather than hide an woodwork etc. As such they tended to be a darker colour to achieve this. cheers Pat
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It's great to have you back Keith; missed your regular updates. As Eberhard has said, your mastery of these technically challenging pieces is a delight to follow. She is looking great! cheers Pat
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Sandra, the first of the items is (in English) called a 'Traversing Board'. They were used as a form of 'dead reckoning' navigation by recording the direction and speed run during a period of time, or at time of course alteration. The usual practice (as far as I have determined) was to record the course and speed (by log or estimation) each turn of the glass (about a half hour). This would allow a 'dead reckoned position to be determined from the last fix. Can't help with the second. cheers Pat
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You're a sucker for punishment' - is that what your are saying Steven? That bending seems to have worked OK, you could also soak and bend on a form with a heat gun/hair dryer if you riun into problems. Coming along very nicely, and I too like to see the results of your research and speculation. cheers Pat
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Very nice work Rob, that looks great. You're making some good progress with her now. cheers Pat
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Great news Michael, best wishes for a full recovery. No rush to get back into the workshop. cheers Pat
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Thanks Mark, Tony and John, appreciate the assistance. cheers Pat
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Brass Blackening questions
BANYAN replied to stevenmh's topic in Metal Work, Soldering and Metal Fittings
Hi Steve, I have found it is not so much the blackening solution, but the chemicals used for cleaning the assembled parts that will create problems. I always solder my PE that has to be blackened, but it may be possible to glue them if you do not use acetone etc for cleaning. Using a stiff bristle brush (scratch/fibre pencil) or brass/soft rotary brush etc may clean them enough depending on how delicate they are. BUT the part has to be very clean and no finger oils etc for blackening to work properly. As Richard points out, any excess glue must first be removed. If you try to blacken the individual parts first you might get away with it but you must get the blackening process right. Too many instances of blackening I have seen left a residue/thin coating of black which will come away very easily if glued - very weak joint. Using a slow blackening process by diluting (I use 50/50 or weaker) solution, then buffing the item such that you get a polished iron grey/charcoal grey finish that still appears metallic may work with CA. cheers Pat -
Hi Steven, I am certainly not that knowledgeable on vessels of this period so take the following with a grain of salt WRT to what is shown on your posted images. I think Mark has identified a 'clamp' of some sort to support the lowest deck. The beams may also have been supported with nails/bolts through the frame where they penetrate the planking (assuming the beams lined up with the frames?). The next two decks appear to use the top of the knees as a sort of clamp to support the beam. So in your sketch of a single deck Nef, I would include a small clamp piece to support the deck with knee above providing additional support (as well as the frames if the beams are nailed to them) cheers Pat
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