allanyed

Flyer, I agree that the Renaissance period was full of artistry in many ways, not just the works of Michelangelo and Da Vinci.  It seemed to have carried over to vessels of most, if not all, seafaring nations including the two you mention.  Whatever the reason, it is a wonder to see.   Even the carvings on the contemporary models continue to amaze us.
Allan

Welcome aboard Ken.   Great to have another new member.   Per Druxey's post, do study the planking tutorials and as many build logs as possible as you go forward.  If you are going to stay with kits for your next project you might want to consider going with a high quality kit  including the three vessel learning series from Model Shipways designed by David Antscherl, Syren kits, and Vanguard kits.   These will save you a lot of grief.
Allan
 

Welcome aboard Ken.   Great to have another new member.   Per Druxey's post, do study the planking tutorials and as many build logs as possible as you go forward.  If you are going to stay with kits for your next project you might want to consider going with a high quality kit  including the three vessel learning series from Model Shipways designed by David Antscherl, Syren kits, and Vanguard kits.   These will save you a lot of grief.
Allan
 

Based on the years 1765 for San Juan Nepomuceno and 1794 for Montanes, if the Spanish ships were close to the British when belaying pins came into standard use (about 1770), the SJN would NOT have pins, but the Montanes would have them.  If you are interested in accuracy check everything from these two kit makers against contemporary information before using them.  Based on the build logs here at MSW, all the kits from both are loaded with incorrect parts and designs.  Definitely check the diameter of the pins.  At a scale of  1:70 for the Montanes, the handle diameter should be no more than about 0.025".  At this size, wood will be difficult to work with and maybe weak, so consider brass that is painted or other wise colored brown. 
 
Allan

Hi Keith,
I assume you are referring to the upper most yard in the photo.  With the yard being 125mm  the dimensions are not quite as far off the mark as I thought.  10 inch sewn perimeter seams are still pretty far out of scale, but 30 inch cloths are only 20% over sized.  
 
Regardless, your build really is super.

Allan

You mean like fishing bare-handed for catfish, or some other kind of noodling?

Well you've found us now! Welcome to MSW. Actually, you did a decent job for your first attempt at planking. You'll find plenty of tutorials and help on this site.

Based on the years 1765 for San Juan Nepomuceno and 1794 for Montanes, if the Spanish ships were close to the British when belaying pins came into standard use (about 1770), the SJN would NOT have pins, but the Montanes would have them.  If you are interested in accuracy check everything from these two kit makers against contemporary information before using them.  Based on the build logs here at MSW, all the kits from both are loaded with incorrect parts and designs.  Definitely check the diameter of the pins.  At a scale of  1:70 for the Montanes, the handle diameter should be no more than about 0.025".  At this size, wood will be difficult to work with and maybe weak, so consider brass that is painted or other wise colored brown. 
 
Allan

Based on the years 1765 for San Juan Nepomuceno and 1794 for Montanes, if the Spanish ships were close to the British when belaying pins came into standard use (about 1770), the SJN would NOT have pins, but the Montanes would have them.  If you are interested in accuracy check everything from these two kit makers against contemporary information before using them.  Based on the build logs here at MSW, all the kits from both are loaded with incorrect parts and designs.  Definitely check the diameter of the pins.  At a scale of  1:70 for the Montanes, the handle diameter should be no more than about 0.025".  At this size, wood will be difficult to work with and maybe weak, so consider brass that is painted or other wise colored brown. 
 
Allan

https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/sammy-b-roberts-wreck-victor-vescovo/index.html
 
 

As a novice, SERIOUSLY consider starting with the three boat series from Model Shipway designed by David Antscherl.   You will learn proper techniques and wind up with realistic looking models.  Study the kit build logs, look at the details and end results of all the brands, then note the few brands that are being built far more often, including Syren, MS, and Vanguard.  There is a reason for this. 
Allan
 
 
 

As a novice, SERIOUSLY consider starting with the three boat series from Model Shipway designed by David Antscherl.   You will learn proper techniques and wind up with realistic looking models.  Study the kit build logs, look at the details and end results of all the brands, then note the few brands that are being built far more often, including Syren, MS, and Vanguard.  There is a reason for this. 
Allan
 
 
 

Hello Maik,
I ordered my Speedwell books on Monday and according to UPS they will be delivered tomorrow, I have to say that went quickly.  General comments and my personal opinion is that the shipping costs are ok, around 56€, yes it may be a lot for some, but it is very fast 4-5 working days and if I calculate it on the time I can spend with this book and which ones  friends it can prepare it is justified.  
I bought the two books of the Naiad in January last year, I can't remember exactly the shipping costs but I think it was around 30€ but with a delivery time of over 6 weeks.  Finally, I would like to thank Maik again for keeping Sea Watch Books alive by taking it over and giving us the opportunity to continue buying the great books.  
 
Greetings Tobias

Your idea of running the line through the hole first then "pinning" it temporarily is great.  I had heard of this in the past, but this renews my thoughts to give it a try.   My current is 17th century when belaying pins were not used on British ships  so I can dodge this bullet for the time being.  😀 
 
Cheers
 
Allan
 
 

Hi Michael,
 
For sure, as you are successfully getting some bashing going, get rid of the pin rails on the bulkheads.  If you do want to keep the pin rack, maybe consider replacing them so the pins will be to scale.  The holes look to be at least double, maybe triple the diameter of the pin.
 
Hope you don't mind a question and comment.
 
Do the instructions show the type of hull planking on your model?  We see this style of planking on many kit build and I have wondered if they give instructions to do it this way instead of how it was actually done.   Your planking is very neatly done but I was curious about this style.
 
Regarding the flags from the kit,  the two on the left of the photo you posted look like ensigns.  The top one is the the type of Union Jack which came into use in the beginning of the 19th century so would never have been seen on the SoS.  The lower one is a St. George's cross which was used in the 12th century for ships mainly for British ships sailing to the Med at that time and  its use continued for some time time but I believe was no longer in use in the 17th century.   By the time of SoS, the most appropriate ensigns would be a white ensign or red ensign.  If you want to go with one of these, it is really a simple matter of printing these on silk span or other tissue paper and then fixing the ink before furling it to hang naturally.   I have recently had to print these for my own project so if you would like the drawing please PM me with the dimensions and I can send you a printable color drawing.    Chuck Passaro goes into some detail on printing flags using gift wrapping tissue here at MSW as well.   Much better scaled than cloth of any kind.
Allan
The red and white ensigns in use between 1625 and 1707 follow:
 
 
 
 
 
 

EJ,   How would the lines belay to the rail without pins?  I am having a hard time envisioning a pin rail that has no pins but can still be used to belay a line. 
 
From looking at 17th century contemporary models  the lines were belayed to cap rails, cleats, and timber heads for the most part.  Below are bow photos showing two different styles of rigging at the bow and there is no indication of any kind of rail as in Michael's kit.  Granted these are only a few examples so certainly not cast in stone.    RC Anderson's Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast is a great source for more details and nowhere does in write about a rail like those in the kit. 
                                                                    Below --  Coronation from the Kriegstein collection  Note the fairleads at the gammoning

                                                                         
 
                                                                 Below is the bow area of a 3rd rate of 1650 at Preble Hall - Note there are no fairleads at the gammoning

 
In the below photos there is a small set of bits just aft of the figure head on the Hampton Court (1678) in addition to the fairleads for other lines going to                                       the timber heads.  This photo is cropped rom the one on page 92 in Franklin's Navy Board Ship models.  

 
I have no idea if any of these are appropriate for SoS, but they may be closer to the way it was actually done compared to the kit version.
Allan

Very nice Michael!
 
I agree with you that the pinrail holes appear to be way over scale.  Kits are notorious for supplying  hugely over scale pins. 
 
For SoS, there probably were no  pinrails at all?    David Lees notes  in Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War belaying pins were not used by the Royal Navy until about 1745.  This is more than 100 years after SoS was built, and when introduced, they were mainly in racks lashed to the shrouds not on racks secured to bulwarks or on the bitt cross pieces.  Donald McKay's book on on the SoS is supposed to be a great source of information for anyone building SoS and might address this as well.  
 
Again, your construction is very clean and very nicely finished!  
 
Allan
 
 

Your following the tutorials for planking has resulted in one of the finest planking jobs in the kit build logs here at MSW.  It can serve as a lesson to others that no one is relegated to using the erroneous methods shown by some kit makers where many the planks fail to end at the rabbet as they should.  
With this being your first build, the build log is even more impressive.
Allan

A lot of progress to report.  The four lifts of each half of the hull have had their preliminary sanding and are glued together.  Both halves have also been sanded, although much more sanding is needed.  The hull looks like a boat.  Photos are attached.  I am going to use some plastic wood or Gesso to fill in the cracks between the lifts.  And I plan to have a sheet of 3/32 cedar down the middle that will form the stem and stern posts and the keel.
 

As a novice, SERIOUSLY consider starting with the three boat series from Model Shipway designed by David Antscherl.   You will learn proper techniques and wind up with realistic looking models.  Study the kit build logs, look at the details and end results of all the brands, then note the few brands that are being built far more often, including Syren, MS, and Vanguard.  There is a reason for this. 
Allan
 
 
 

As a novice, SERIOUSLY consider starting with the three boat series from Model Shipway designed by David Antscherl.   You will learn proper techniques and wind up with realistic looking models.  Study the kit build logs, look at the details and end results of all the brands, then note the few brands that are being built far more often, including Syren, MS, and Vanguard.  There is a reason for this. 
Allan
 
 
 

Your Terror is one of the best renditions I have seen, kudos!!    It is a shame that the kit maker knows nothing about sails and puts what another member here at MSW likened to door mats in the box.   This has been a gripe for many builders and why they look for alternative solutions.  Just as a comparison of a sail and the thing the kit supplied, the below might be more clear.   The dimensional information on the sketch on the right comes from sources based on contemporary information, including Lees' Masting and Rigging.  The dimensions may be a bit off but if you or someone building this kit can give me the length of the yard I can give more accurate dimensions on the kit sail to make a more fair comparison.  I left off quite a few of the additional reinforcing panels on the drawing, but these can be found in a number of books and probably on line. 
Allan

 
 

Hi Daniel
I have always used carpenter's glue for wood to wood.  I have no had issues with the blackened glue or tape or pencil lines in 40 years so not a bad track record.  The blackened glue also works well for keel and other similar items where the joints would show.  So little is needed to darken the mass that it does not weaken the bonding action at all.
Allan

As a novice, SERIOUSLY consider starting with the three boat series from Model Shipway designed by David Antscherl.   You will learn proper techniques and wind up with realistic looking models.  Study the kit build logs, look at the details and end results of all the brands, then note the few brands that are being built far more often, including Syren, MS, and Vanguard.  There is a reason for this. 
Allan
 
 
 

Your Terror is one of the best renditions I have seen, kudos!!    It is a shame that the kit maker knows nothing about sails and puts what another member here at MSW likened to door mats in the box.   This has been a gripe for many builders and why they look for alternative solutions.  Just as a comparison of a sail and the thing the kit supplied, the below might be more clear.   The dimensional information on the sketch on the right comes from sources based on contemporary information, including Lees' Masting and Rigging.  The dimensions may be a bit off but if you or someone building this kit can give me the length of the yard I can give more accurate dimensions on the kit sail to make a more fair comparison.  I left off quite a few of the additional reinforcing panels on the drawing, but these can be found in a number of books and probably on line. 
Allan