Greg Davis

I've just added the fuel tank and fuel line to the engine. Getting the tank in place was harder than expected. At first I attached the mounts to the plane and then attempted to add the tank - this was a fail. I took the mounts off, wrapped the tank and mounts with the brass straps and then put the whole structure in place - this eventually worked out for me. The fuel line was then added to finish this portion of the build. I think it would have been just as easy (and more realistic) to have formed the tank supports from wire and/or had them supplied as castings. I've also added the radiators, the propeller, and the upper wing middle rib. 

I believe that all that is left now is the landing gear - the wheels, the tail skid, and the wing skids.

Yesterday I added numerous pieces of photo-etched brass to the wings. These pieces form anchor points for the bracing lines. Unfortunately, these pieces are not noted in the instruction booklet (they should have been noted on p32 within the 'Metal Parts List') nor are they drawn in the master plan. If you look carefully at the photos on Model Expo you will be able to find a few of them! There are 12 on each wing. They get bent over the wing panels as close to the inside of spars that can be achieved. At first I had some issue with bending them so the two holes would align. I solved the problem by making a starting bend of the piece, putting them over the appropriate rib, pushing a short piece of music wire through the holes to align them, and then pulling the ends together with pliers. 

Today I spent time getting a good start on the wing bracing. I was able to do all the bracing on the left wing.

If I keep focused on this project, it should be done soon. The remaining to-do list is just a handful of (hopefully straightforward tasks):

• Right wing bracing
• Wing landing skids and bracing
• Tail support skid and bracing
• Attach wheels
• Fuel tank and fuel line
• Radiators
• Propeller

I've made a final decision to not include ailerons on my model. 

I've finished the 2nd planking of the port side. I was hoping not to need any stealers, but it turned out that one was required. If the kit had come with wider material for the garboard (or I had matching wood available), then I could have done the planking stealer free. Either way it's looking good to me.

The first belt on the port side is done.

It should look nice once it is smoothed and a finish is applied.

Time to mark out the lower belt and continue on.

On 3/2/2024 at 2:20 PM, Denideul said:

found out  a document (in french) explaining that N18 was originaly the first part of a hydroplane that should have been completed with a wing.

But the wing manufacturer named "Voisin" never delivered the wing.

Thank you for providing this link. I am grateful for your interest in the craft and willingness to share. However, I am not sure of the information presented in the document - I really wish that there had been references included. My comments below are not meant to discredit, but to critically question the translation (I don't read French either!) in light of other information that I have gathered. 

I have not run across other information noting any collaboration with Voison, I believe that they were actually competitors. As translations can sometimes go astray, I wonder if some comparison was being made to Voison's 1905 glider that was (like the No 18 during testing) pulled by a racing motor boat on the Seine. 

I am still looking for additional sources that would validate 'three floats built by Lachambre'. My impression, from the sources that I have read, imply that work on his crafts were done by a group of builders / mechanics that were long-term hires by Santos-Dumont.

There are not many contemporary written in English about the No18, but here are a couple printed in Scientific American from October 1907. In neither case is the No 18 portrayed as a plane; it is clearly portrayed as a boat. The 'driver' is described as helmsman - a term typically used for the person controlling a ship or boat. The hydrofoils are referred to as wings - perhaps that is what wings in the translation refer to.

I certainly will not forget what you have shared and should I find evidence in support of the translation I will immediately pass it on.

Thanks again,

Greg 

19 hours ago, Egilman said:

Has some very detailed views of the rigging and the control system.....

 

What I saw was a wire connected from the top wing to the aileron with a shrouded spring connected to the bottom wing... The cable runs vertical to the wing through a sheave then along the wing surface through guides to a point almost at the pilots position where it is connected to the ropes that the pilot looped over his shoulders....

Do you think that this is true to the prototype or a more modern control solution? Before watching this video, I had conjectured that the original ailerons were connected to two cables opposed to one cable and a spring. 

4 hours ago, George Ramey said:

Greg,

Ref Instruction page 36: can't seem to locate Tank supports Ta1 and Ta2. Are they wood, metal? Also Radiator Rad 1 and Rad 2 I don't seem to have. Can you take a photo of these so I can possibly reproduce them? Pretty much finished off the basic fuselage structure and rigging and will attack the canard controls next. I think I'll hold off on the landing gear apparatus until the very end.

On your complaint about the wheel tire combination; I wonder why more manufacturers don't just make wheels and use O-rings as tires. Would save carefully painting tires separate from the wheels. I've already painted my tires and already have hangar rash on the paint. I'm going to try Plasti-Dip rubber coating used for dipping tool handles next. That may be a bit more durable and the color is right

George -

The tank supports and the radiators are laser cut on the same sheet of wood that the canard support attachments to the fuselage were - since you have the supports Sup1 and Sup 2 on your model, I'm sure you have the other parts. 

For me, the laser cutting of the radiators is a highpoint of the kit - I'm just hoping I can release them from the sheet without damage.

1 hour ago, George Ramey said:

Been trying to figure out how the ailerons are supposed to be operated.

I have not seen a picture and / or diagram depicting the aileron control system. Like you, all that I have found is the verbal description of lines being connected to his coat and body movement would then translate into aileron movement. If I do locate additional information I will share!

9 minutes ago, Egilman said:

someone make a kit of the first military airplane, Signal Corps #1...

Maybe a scratch build project!

I used single strips of wood for the first three strakes below the sheer. This area of the ship will be pierced by a large number of holes - gun ports and oar ports. There will also be two half round moldings added to this section. Because of all the additions (and subtractions) I thought the planking would hold up better with a minimal number of butt joints in the region. Also, with the 'business' of this region, the joints will likely not be missed from a visual perspective.

Now moving down the hull, I've marked out two planking belts. Each will accommodate 9 strakes. These are being set in with 8cm long planks. Typical strakes will have 5 planks each of the 4mm wide planking material provided in the kit. The supplied wood is quite nice, a great feature of the kit.

15 minutes ago, Egilman said:

I believe his stopping work was a major loss to science....

By 1910 (in his mid-thirties) SD's health was starting to fail, symptoms and then diagnosis of multiple sclerosis - Its also suspected that SD suffered from bipolar disorder. The last 20 years of his life don't seem to have been particularly good ones. Its clear he had a level of regret that planes were so quickly weaponized. If times and his health had been better, I expect he would have continued his exception line of applied research. Very sad as to how he went from such great highs in the early 1900's to committing suicide in 1932.

34 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Good Idea! just hang it like a museum would hang it.... Five wires (one holds up the nose with it's boxkite) & two crossbars, one under each wheel carrying the weight....

 

I wonder if Dumont ever figured out why this thing would take hops but would never actually fly...

I don't know, his next plane the No.15 had a similar bi-plane large dihedral wing system and now the box canard was in the rear and the propulsion changer from pusher to tractor. He also lowered his center of gravity by sitting just on top of the bottom wing. This plane wasn't successful, perhaps due to an extremely narrow wing chord - reportedly about 2ft - that couldn't have produced a great deal of lift at the low speed possible by the craft. Perhaps this was why it didn't successfully fly. His next airplane the No.17 is reported to have been similar to the No.15 and is not well documented. It is claimed that this plane went untested. His final sequence of planes - the Demoiselle sequence - were all small monoplanes where the pilot sat over the landing gear under the wing. This was clearly his most successful design - I feel it has a number of 'modern' aspects to it. I have no idea if the design is all his and/or it was a natural assimilation of current designs. It is also impressive that he let plans for the Demoiselle be published (in Popular Mechanics) so anyone interested could build one. I understand that the Demoiselle plans are the only SD plans that exist, the rest having been destroyed after the French had accused him of operating as a German spy. This picture shows Santos-Dumont with one of the later Demoiselles (with a pretty nice prop!).

Today I decided to permanently attach the wing panels

This is completely out of order from the instructions - I hope its not a bad idea, but I just 'felt' it was time!

The instructions suggest that the landing skids are first attached to the wings and the fuselage as well as the wheels. Then, to set the dihedral 1.5cm shims are to be put under the wing skids. This minimally assumes that the skids are both the same length and don't flex to much when being used as supports. Here I have set the dihedral using a pair of 1-2-3 blocks while the fuselage / canard assembly sits solidly on the work space. The downside is that the whole structure now becomes more unwieldy as the time comes to adding the skids and other objects. I'll also be adding bamboo diagonal reinforcements to installed wings at a time I can't move the structures as freely. The way I interpret the instructions, wing rigging was to be done before wing installation. I don't think that it will be that problematic to add it with wings in place - certainly not as challenging as rigging a ship.

As George alluded to, once the wings are added the model does take up a good deal of space. So now I'm back to the question: where does this thing go when its done? My wife thinks it would look good hanging from the ceiling and I'm thinking a flat mount onto a wall could be interesting.  

11 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Is it possible that “hydroplane” gets confused with “hydrofoil”?  Earlier pictures posted show submerged wing like lifting surfaces.

 

Roger

That certainly could be the case - it might even be a better description for this craft than hydroplane!

I've added and rigged the canard controls

I blackened all the metal parts and then painted the handle of the lever brown. This work didn't go as well as it should have. I broke one of the support legs on the wheel control as I tried to bend two of the legs to be a little closer together and thereby match notches in the base. Fortunately the repair looks fine. I wanted to note that there is a hole in the base (close to the basket) for the control line to pass thru and down to the bottom of the fuselage. In order to keep the hole from being blocked the base needs not to be pushed tight to the fuselage stringer.

After gluing the lever assembly together, I congratulated myself on applying some petroleum jelly to the horizontal part of the lever in order to assure free movement - but then noticed the base was reversed from what it should be. The glue join was really strong and I decided not to dissolve / disassemble the joint - I'm sure this is the way Santos-Dumont had wanted it assembled originally and the actual error was on the real plane. I had to toss the supplied rigging line for the control lines as it had a number of snags and I couldn't get a long enough piece to do the work - so a quick trip to the local stash of extra materials.

The controls actually move the canard up/down and right/left. I think that before the model is complete, I will restrict all motion to prevent overuse and/or breakage. I typically think that static models should be static! 

I started working on the landing gear - the instructions indicate that this should be installed before the wings are attached (and that is getting close now).

Still disappointed that the tires are part of a casting and not rubber. I was afraid that paint on the tires would easily rub off if the plane was rolled over nearly any surface. Because of this, I decided to blacken the middle part of the tires before painting them black. If (when) the paint comes off, the blackened metal will take over! I brushed blackener onto the tires, let them set a few minutes before rinsing them. After drying the flat black paint was applied.

I also used blackener to color the landing gear axle assembly. The wheels are not permanently attached at this point, before doing so I will add the 'rubber' suspension system to the landing gear.

23 minutes ago, George Ramey said:

Success! Got the cockpit preinstalled on the fuselage assembly, then installed the cockpit to the fuselage with the entire engine intact. The turnbuckles are loosely nailed to the cockpit. Rigging is next and then I'll permanently attach the turnbuckles. So relieved this worked out.

Congratulations! 

I installed the nails backwards. I put the turnbuckles on the pins and a drop of CA on the end of the pin before pushing into place. Just needed to be real careful about slanting the turnbuckles correctly as soon as the CA sets they don't move anymore! Also they are really easy to bend in a way that in not intended.

I have the canard trial fitted / lined up square with the fuselage. It turns and rises / lowers nicely. Should be interesting to see if I can get it rigged to the cockpit controls later - they are suppose to be functional.  

Here's another place where a beta modeler may have been able to provide feedback to make the canard fitting a bit less sloppy. Note how the 'canard axle tube' doesn't reach fully between the two canard supports. If the tube had been about 3mm longer, there would still be free movement but a much more professional fit. Later, during the final attachment, I may fit a pair of 1.5mm washers to fill in and balance the canard installation. 

4 hours ago, George Ramey said:

Beautiful job, Greg. Really impressive build. Good catch on the extra crossbeams. I think I'm about a week behind. I decided not to assemble the forward and aft cockpits after the forward cockpit was installed on the fuselage as I previously proposed. Mine are now assembled, less the cross piece under the motor mount support as you suggested. Just attached the motor mounts and waiting for them to cure. Rather than disassemble the engine fuel distribution tubes from the motor to install it, I'm going to try mounting it on the mounts before sliding the cockpit assembly onto the four fuselage bamboo corners. I'll let you know if that works. 

George

Sounds good - I hope the engine / mount slide in nicely. By the way, during one of my trial engine fittings I had the top part of the engine support detach from the vertical strip. After putting it back together, I decided to add a couple of triangular corner gussets to help support the joint. Even before this happened I was concerned about the butt joint being able to support the engine. I would guess that in the original plane, the joint was likely rabbeted and a lot stronger than how the model is designed.

Also, when it comes time to install the wings, there is another part that is not mentioned in the instructions. There is a middle rib that needs to be added at the joint between the wing panels. You can see a bit of it on the plans - a lot of the rib is concealed by the fuel tank. You can also make it out on the prototype model in the pictures on p35 and 36 of the instruction manual. I wish Model Expo had secured a third party beta model builder to make this model and provide edits to the instruction manual before the kit was released to the public.

I've had time to smooth out the first layer of planking and started to attach the second layer. The sheer has been adjusted as well - I find this type of ship to be very gracefully designed.

The engine is done! The propeller shaft is attached now but the propeller will not be added until much later.

A set of bamboo crossbeams need to be added near the front of the engine. These crossbeams can be seen in the following (interesting) picture were a hand cranked engine starting mechanism has been attached to the 14bis.

Note, the crossbeams can be located on the big plan of the model, but are not mentioned in the instruction manual. 

They are shown in the pictures of the porotype model on the ME website:

On 2/23/2024 at 11:44 AM, Mirabell61 said:

An very interesting model Greg,

did this hyroplane ever lift off?

 

Nils

Nils -

It wasn't designed for flight - it was a watercraft. In a couple of well regarded biographies and on some web sites there is a misrepresentation of the No18 hydroplane. It seems that in the early 1900'sthe term hydroplane had at least two meanings - the predominant being that of an airplane that could rise from water, like a float plane; the other, that of a boat that skims the water surface like a modern day hydroplane. I imagine that the Santos-Dumont biographers that have made the misrepresentation were so focused on his role in developing aircraft that they may not have even realized that No18 was a boat. Unfortunately, this kind of a mistake in the biographies makes me wonder a bit about other information that they have written / repeated about him! 

Greg

42 minutes ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

Greg, A few more thoughts,

 

No glue, just press fit. Or at worst a tiny dab of PVA on exposed surfaces that can be chiselled off later.

1/4" dowel stepping down at the ends. Perhaps in segments with couplers, slide the coupler along and the dowel is 'cut'. You could cut the disks with side cutters/wire cutters to remove them.

Some thin C.A. into the end grains before boring should give a smoother hole.

Craig -

The step down idea is great, as is using some CA to make nicer holes! I was also thinking press fit so that the smaller disks could be slid inward where the pontoon diameter is greater for easy removal when it is time to disassemble. Once the stringers are in place there might not be enough room for cutters to get to the dowel. Instead I was envisioning using a jewelers saw to cut the dowel. I'll need to provide some protection to the stringers in the region the cutting is done, maybe some thin brass sheet slid under where the cuts are.

Thanks again,

Greg

13 hours ago, iMustBeCrazy said:

I haven't fully thought this out but perhaps bore out these disks to take a shaft for alignment? Then your supports could support the shaft and be standardised, some fixed to a base some moveable to wherever you're working.

 

Craig -

I thought about a shaft also but wasn't sure if it was needed. The more I think about it, the better the idea gets! The shaft can't be too big in diameter when it gets to the terminal ends or it just wouldn't go thru the smallest two disks. I don't think I could use more than an 1/8" diameter dowel. On its own the dowel wouldn't be stiff enough to be useful, but in conjunction with the supports it would likely do a good job. I could place rubber bands over the shaft to keep everything seated as well. A small diameter shaft should not be too difficult to cut into segments when it came time for removal of disks and shaft. I can bore the disk center holes via the tailstock on the lathe at the same time I'm parting the hoops / disks.

Thanks for bringing this option up!

Greg