conservation wax

[src]

I've read that beeswax can cause problems and that conservation wax is a better alternative for waxing  rigging so I am out to go buy some. When it comes to applying, do I treat it the same as beeswax? IE melt it into some turpentine?

Thanks in advance

Sam

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Whit is it they say is bad about beeswax? I too remember some talk about it not being suitable but now I cant remember what points were against its use.

[druxey]

It's mildly acidic, Frankie. Conservator's wax is pH neutral.

[Dwaing]

For many years I have used "Thread Heaven" in place of beeswax. It never affects the color of some fibers as beeswax sometimes does. Any fuzzy fibers lay flat, for example on the rigging of my Bounty built over 60 years ago. Available from sewing stores and Amazon. Comes in a small cubic container and each .lasts me decades.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Dwaing

[src]

Druxey, Dwaing, thanks, JCF see Druxeys reply. 

What is the best way to apply? Rub the line across it? melt it into some turpentine? I have heard something about running the line over a 100 watt bulb, although incandescent bulbs are becoming a thing of the past here in California.

Sam

[mtaylor]

Sam,

 

They're disappearing from the States completely.  No more incandescent bulbs by edict of Congress....  OTOH,  I managed to stockpile all my 60's and 100's that I replaced with CFL and LED bulbs to cut my electric bill quite nicely.  Now that I think of it... better check the garage as there was some clean up and toss out done there recently.....

[src]

Mark, we did stockpiles also. 

Now, Michaels and Aaron Brothers didn't have conservation wax. Anybody have recommendations on where to get it? 

Sam

[Jaager]

    If you can't find it anywhere else,  Amazon   200ml ~ $20    65ml ~ $14  It is also great at protecting  tools from rust.

 

Re: incandescent -  have heat lamp bulbs been proscribed also?

Edited May 26, 2015 by Jaager

[src]

Jaager, thanks!! I have a couple of art stores near work ( about 30 miles from home) I'll try them first than Amazon.

Sam

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Beeswax dangerous fact or myth? Here is what  I just read on Internet;

 

Yes, beeswax becomes slightly corrosive when exposed to UV. It's because it's a biological material and UV degrades the molecule releasing natural acids.

In my opinion, the corrosive effects only really matter on a really long term scale and with fragile museum items. New work such as ours won't have the capilliary system of damage and corrosion that ancient pieces have so the risk of new acidic compounds entering the piece on a microscale is not such a concern.

It's the reason microcrystalline and renaissance wax was invented because the V&A realised this fact after a century of applying beeswax to protect the nation's most precious and ancient artifacts that they had, unbeknownst to them, been applying slow acting acid.

[Jack12477]

Congress replaced an inefficient light bulb with ones containing a toxic substance, mercury. Read the label on the bulb package about what you need to do if you drop a CFL and it breaks - Hazmat team anyone !  Oh and wait till these wind up in the landfills.

 

I too stockpiled 40's, 60's and 100's

Edited May 26, 2015 by Jack12477

[Landlocked123]

Beeswax dangerous fact or myth? Here is what I just read on Internet;

 

Yes, beeswax becomes slightly corrosive when exposed to UV. It's because it's a biological material and UV degrades the molecule releasing natural acids.

In my opinion, the corrosive effects only really matter on a really long term scale and with fragile museum items. New work such as ours won't have the capilliary system of damage and corrosion that ancient pieces have so the risk of new acidic compounds entering the piece on a microscale is not such a concern.

It's the reason microcrystalline and renaissance wax was invented because the V&A realised this fact after a century of applying beeswax to protect the nation's most precious and ancient artifacts that they had, unbeknownst to them, been applying slow acting acid.

I am basically a newbie and in a few of the sets of instructions I have read by Eric Ronberg he recommends bees wax dissolved in turpentine for finishing lines. I've read about the concerns of some regarding the slightly acidic nature of bees wax, but chances of anything I build lasting centuries, I deem as pretty remote (although I think Gaetan's might Edited May 27, 2015 by Landlocked123

[Jaxboat]

Druxey raised my curiosity about beeswax with his comments on conservators wax. I was selling beeswax and its derivatives into the personal care industry at the time. I confirmed all of Druxey's comments with a beeswax/wax expert. Beeswax is a natural product with a very broad range of chemical substances many of which are not "wax".  In the long term, beeswax does become slightly acidic. Do not know what the time frame is for the pH effect to occur.  Microcrystalline wax is a 100% hydrocarbon based wax with no acid components either as supplied or upon aging. There are different grades of MC wax based on melting point range. I don't remember what the range is for the conservators wax.

 

There are also different grades of beeswax also, depending if it was bleached to reduce color or distilled to increase melting point. If I was looking to finish a model with wax, I think I would choose carnauba, a plant based natural wax. It is harder than beeswax. For those of a certain age, you might remember Du Pont's Simonize Car Wax. It was almost all carnauba wax with just a touch of a hydrocarbon solvent to make it workable. "Wax on, Wax off", grasshopper .

Best

Jaxboat

PS: OCD Chemist peeve - you "dissolve" wax into turps, not melt. You can "melt" wax with the proper application of heat

Edited May 27, 2015 by Jaxboat

[Jack12477]

Yes, I do remember using DuPont's Simonize Car Wax and there was another one that also contained Carnauba wax which I also used but can't remember the name

[augie]

Blue Coral, Jack.

[jhearl]

Since I work for a museum that has many pieces of furniture dating to the 1700s, I thought I'd pop upstairs and ask our curator what she thought of the beeswax thing. She isn't an expert on ship models but conjectured that there were other things that could cause damage to rigging more readily than any acid in beeswax, such as dry rot and insects although she didn't discount the possibility of beeswax causing damage over a very long term. However, she said the conservator we use typically only puts Butcher's Wax on antique furniture although he sometimes uses the Renaissance Wax referenced above. Both are made by the same company. http://www.bwccompany.com/

 

I also found a very interesting article about beeswax from the North Carolina State Cooperative Extension. http://cleveland.ces.ncsu.edu/beeswax/ One thing the article points out is that the acids are "fatty acids." I have no background in chemistry so I don't know if those sorts of acids are different than something like muriatic acid. They do mention in the article that beeswax is found in the wrappings of Egyptian mummies. They've been around for a pretty long time!

 

Cheers -

John

[src]

Jaxboat, Disolve, disolve disolve! Point taken   I have similar peeves; Clip vs Magazine is one, or, "Let me be honest with you." So all this time I have known whoever said that, they have been lying to me?!?!?

 

Based on what I am hearing here, I may just go with beeswax DISSOLVED in some turp. I have no kids and my nephews are not likely to be interested in my build(s). I have already used beeswax on the hull, deck and furniture so I guess if the beeswax causes trouble it won't do any good to have the rigging survive and the hull disintegrate in 75 or 100 years.

 

Jhearl, interesting point regarding mummies.

 

Landlocked, I agree. Oil and wax is one of the easiest and most attractive finishes for furniture. A little elbow grease and you have that beautiful "gotta touch it" look.

 

Sam

[Jaxboat]

RE: Fatty acids. Yes fatty acids would have less acidity than Muriatic acid because the acid group's effect would be diluted (COOH in chem speak) by the long fatty carbon chain. For example Tall Oil fatty acid (the word "tall" in this context has nothing to do with height) is a derivative of pine trees. It is the active ingredient in Murphy's oil soap and is a C18 fatty acid.

[twintrow]

With all the differing opinions and references, I thought I'd get the opinion from an expert.  So I wrote to Don Pruel Curator of the Maritime Museum and asked if they use beeswax or conservation wax when re-rigging museum models (including the Rogers Collection). His response follows:

 

Hi Tom,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Yes we do use beeswax for our rigging line. When creating a three stranded line we wax each line before we place it on the ropewalk. Once that is completed we wax it again and then remove it from the machine and place it in the microwave to cook for a minute. We then remove it and hang it with a light weight at the end.

Don Preul

[mischief]

I have been trying "TREWAX" which contains Carnauba and petroleum solvents,So far, I like the hard finish it gives and the luster.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Carnauba wax is the worlds hardest wax, its as hard as cement. You can buy raw carnauba at art supply stores, it comes in the form of a bag of thin flakes. Artists blend it with beeswax and raw pigment to make Encaustic paint, an ancient method that predates Oil painting. But Carnauba was discovered in South America in the early 20th century and its discovery created the whole industry of wax floor covering. Until carnauba came along there was no wax hard enough to cover a floor and stay on. Then it became the key component of automotive polish, its hardness again being what made it attractive.

THe point I am making is that carnauba is likely not going to be a good wax for ship model line since you will have to dissolve it with chemicals or melt it with excessive heat. The chemicals will surely be more problematic than any acids found in beeswax! 

[mischief]

The Trewax that I mentioned is in paste form and very easy to apply and do not belive it will cause any ship modeling harm in any of  our lifetimes.

[Zocane]

I don't know if 5 years is too long for a follow up question.  this thread was quite enlightening - thank you for your wisdom.  I'm new to this (well, I built ship models when I was 13-18 in the late sixties, completely in the dark about anything).  I'm going to be trying out the beeswax/conservation wax plus turpentine not only for my rigging but also test it out on some decking.  I wonder if you have a recommended ratio of wax to turpentine? I had an old hunk of beeswax back when I was kid that I would just thread the line through before mounting.  Never even knew about dissolving it in turpentine before!  As for the decking idea, I just got it from Tosti's Young America volume 1.  Otherwise, I just put Tung oil on my decks.  I'm always up for new ideas.

Will

[Justin P.]

Beeswax, Beeswax, Beeswax!   
 

Conservator here, and without explaining in detail I’ll just say that Renaissance Wax has no business on rigging line of any kind.  It barely belongs on the type of finishes commonly found on ship models.  The quote from Don Pruel on their use of beeswax is the absolute best advice from a non-conservator on line/thread treatment. 
 

Personally, I’d “dress” the line by just running it through a wad of purified beeswax and make a loose coil and hit it with a blow dryer.   I’m not sure why anyone would need to dilute it, especially with turpentine, but I’m curious. 
 

This dressing is widely done by conservators who use cellulosic thread or line and has been done by craftspeople and tradesmen for hundreds if not thousands of years.  I cannot think of a reason to introduce any solvents.  There is almost no point in doing it for synthetics other then to give the line a little more bite when making knots.