H.M.S. Triton Cross Section by Paddy - Scale 1:48

[Paddy]

Russ and Pete,

Thanks gents. Now to get it in gear, finish step one, and get access to the plan locker. I have a feeling I'm going to learn a great deal during this project. Fun!

[Long9Ron]

Paddy

 

Your build is off to a great start. Very nice cut.

[harvey1847]

Very nice cut Paddy and very nice tool aswell... Swiss made!

 

I am much more with the idea of Joss and Cabrapente that use the same method of Joss building his Fleuron. I thing that by using that handmade tool (the blade between to pieces of wood) you ensure yourself that in both sides the rabbet is the same. Its particularly helpful when you have to make the rabbet in round pieces. It´s my opinion anyway.

 

Good work and good luck!

 

 

Daniel.

[Paddy]

Ron: Thanks for that. I’ll feel I have actually started when the keel pieces are mounted together.

 

Daniel: The blade between two pieces of wood for the rabbet cutter that Joss mentioned has my interest and I plan on making one to give a try. Thanks for your comments.   

Edited March 31, 2013 by Paddy

[Paddy]

I couldn’t stand it any longer and decided to try out my new Byrnes draw plate. I’ve never used a draw plate before and I had never heard of treenails until the start of this year. Anyway, doing some practicing I was very pleased with how well it cut the bamboo and I didn’t end-up with a hand or fingers that needed to be soaked in liniment. It went so well that I now want to try installing some treenails. I know they will not be see, that maybe a good thing, but are there treenails holding the keel and false keel?

 

In the photo is the bamboo I took from .059 to .033. What a grand tool!

 

 

[russ]

Good work on the bamboo. That Byrnes plate is a great tool.

 

Russ

[Rustyj]

Very good. Once you get the motion down you'll be amazed how many you can do in a short amount of time.

[harvey1847]

NICE TOOL indeed! How I envy you!

 

I´m looking and looking arround here in Madrid and is impossible to get one!! I talked to David Byrnes but the shipping was too expensive for me. I´ve seen some on amazon but they do not look as fine as the one you all have...

 

I´ll post here the pics I have got so long from other logs about the tool Joss was talking about. Since we are bunch of fellows with this practicum, could be of interest for all of us. The pics are from the old MSW 1.0. The first three one are from Cabrapente and the last one I do not remember.

[Pete38]

Paddy, seen your post on MSB in my log.  I used a dremel tool (metal cutting disc) to make my scraper for the notch. If you use this method, make sure to wear eye protection and clamp the razor up in some sort of clamp....Good luck  

[Paddy]

Daniel: Thanks very much for the photos of the scrapers at work. Sorry to hear that the Byrnes draw plate shipping is to expensive over there. I think its safe to say its a jewel. Is it the duty that makes the shipping so expensive?

 

Pete: Thanks for your reply and I hear you on the safty issues.

[Paddy]

After going through a number of logs, I’m not through as yet, and seeing such fine work I’ve decided that I need to restart the keel. Was looking forward to access to the full plan locker but it will have to wait until I’m satisfied that I have the keel constructed that I will wish to move forward with. So, while I’m waiting for a wood order to arrive, I’ll start on making the razor blade scraping tool that Joss mentioned and others use. You see I started off with basswood and have quickly realized it’s not the wood I want to continue with.

 

The following is a photo of my basswood False Keel and Keel with stain applied that was the final straw that started the cookie crumbling. You all have been showing me the way and teaching me that one of the prime directives is patience and not to hurry so, back to prepping for a restart, part of which is more care studying the woods I want to use.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Paddy

[Paddy]

Hi Paddy, according to Goodwin the keel would be made of elm "for it's durability when immersed in salt water" and the false keel could be made from beech, elm or teak. Teak because of its cheapness, beech and elm for their durability, 

Hope this helps,

Martin.

 

I'm a little late but want to thank you for your input concerning the possible wood in the keel structure. My copy of Peter Goodwin's 'The Constuction and Fitting of the Sailing Man OF War 1650 ~ 1850' has arrived now and I'm very please with what I've see so far. Think it's going to be a big help for me in understanding the components we're putting together here and quite interesting too. My thanks to Bob (bbrockel) for bringing the book to my attention.    

[bbrockel]

Patrick, you are very welcome for the book referral.  You will find it very useful as a reference book.  Your TRITON is looking great.  And as far as the Byrnes draw plate, there's none better in my opinion.  I've tried a couple others and the just don't measure up.  Very wise purchase on your part.

[Matrim]

It's always good to push yourself and you will be happier with the results  - though don't reach for such height that you cannot attain them and stop either.

 

Nothing like giving with one hand and taking with the other....

 

Joss

[rummy]

Paddy,good call on re doing your keel.You had the good sense to stop and change directions.Check out page 1 of my build for a bad experance with basswood.I also found there is a differance in where you get your wood.I got some from National Balsa and it took pre stained and  stain very well.

  Larry

[Paddy]

Bob: One of the first things I noticed with Goodwin’s book is there isn’t an entry in the index for tree nails but I quickly learned their under Trennals.

 

Joss: Thanks for that. Also, thanks for giving me access to the plan locker.

 

Larry: I was really getting a twist in my knickers over what wood to use. I appreciate your input very much.

 

Today: I made new progress and after a clean sweep-down fore and aft we’re underway again. With the good description and photos of a rabbet scraper provided by some of you I tried my hand at making one and the following is the result. The wood I used is Cherry which I had a 2” x 2” x 24” stick of. It’s good to be regrouped and working again thanks to you all.

 

P.S. I’ll not be using a V gouge anymore for my rabbets now that you all have shown me the way. A custom made tool can put the depth and location spot on. Thanks again to everyone.

 

Note: The curve you see in these photos is from my lense beinging in wide angle mode at these close views. 

Edited March 31, 2013 by Paddy

[Pete38]

Very nice "restart" to your build.  That cherry is real nice and the v-groove looks straight and clean...Great job

I am sure you will be much happier with the cherry. 

[Paddy]

Pete: Thanks for that and I do like the cherry wood much better as you say. I would have been kicking myself if I had try to continue with the basswood.

 

Bag over my head now. :mellow:

 

Having access to the complete drawings now I was looking at the Cross Section Frames page and do I understand correctly that the alpha frame "C" points in the direction of the stem and the numeric frame "5" points in the direction of the stern?

Edited March 31, 2013 by Paddy

[russ]

Yes, the floor timbers are forward in the forward part of the hull and aft in the after part of the hull.

 

Russ

[Pete38]

Russ was typing at the same time as I was, He's faster. I had asked the same question here http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/336-understanding-the-frame-layouts/

 

Thanks Russ

[Paddy]

Thanks gents. I feel better now. I'll get the keel and false keel mated then mounted to the building board like Bob aka bbrockel and start getting after those frames. Fun!

[mtaylor]

Paddy,

 

Good plan on testing your skills and then moving forward.  And your first keel looks pretty good.  You can only go up..

[Paddy]

Thanks Mark.

[bbrockel]

Patrick, Here's the WIKI definition :

 

A treenail, also trenail or trunnel, is a wooden peg^[1] or dowel used to fasten pieces of wood together, especially in timber frame construction and wooden shipbuilding. It is an ancient technology. Covered bridges in the U.S. often use treenails as fasteners. Many such bridges are still in use. Locust is a favorite wood when making trunnels in shipbuilding due to its strength and rot resistance.

A method of firmly securing such a fastener was to cut a parallel peg of a softer wood, and then expand its outer end with a wedge of much harder wood driven into it.

Ancient shipbuilding used treenails to bind the boat together. They had the advantage of not giving rise to "nail-sickness", a term for decay accelerated and concentrated around metal fasteners. Increased water content causes wood to expand, so that treenails gripped the planks tighter as they absorbed water. Similar wooden trenail fastenings were used as alternatives to metal spikes to secure rail-support "chairs" to wooden sleepers in early Victorian times.

 

Who knew.  Learn something new every day. 

 

BTW, very clean rabbit cut into your new keel.  Way to go.

Edited April 1, 2013 by bbrockel

[Boccherini]

Paddy,

nice clean rabbet (better than my attempt), you'll have a great model if you continue at that standard.

 

Regards,

Grant.

[Matrim]

That looks great, nicely posed photo as well

 

 

Joss

[Paddy]

Bob: LOL... interesting stuff and I’m really enjoying the education everyone is providing.

 

Grant: Thanks for that and I’ll give it a good go.

 

Joss: First I must thank you for planting the seed and as it turned out was much easier to do than I thought it would be. I kept thinking that cherry is not soft like basswood so I had my doubts about the razor blade working out. It took two razor blades to get the correct angle and then I was amazed at the nice cut it started to produce. I used light pressure in the beginning and then increase that a small amount as the rabbet began to take shape. I’ll not doubt you folks again. You all have been there and obviously know what you’re talking about.

 

Grand teachers!

[harvey1847]

Hello Paddy!

 

Nice work. One question, How you cut the blade? Did you use a dremel disc to cut the metal?

 

Regards.

 

 

Daniel

[Paddy]

Hi Daniel,

 

Yes, I used a Dremel Cut-Off disk. As Pete mentioned be sure and place the razor blade in a vise, and wear eye protection. I also wear a full face shield when doing this type of work.

 

It's a great tool.

[Paddy]

Near the beginning of my log I stated that I wanted to cut the False Keel from African Blackwood. So I thought I would throw it out here and see what may come back. At this time I’m leaning to the African Blackwood since the contrast between the cherry keel and cherry false keel is so slight.

 

The picture layout top to bottom is a slice of the African Blackwood that I milled the false keel from. Next is the cherry keel sitting on the African Blackwood false keel. Third is the cherry false keel and last is a glue up of cherry and African Blackwood to test the bond. The glue I used was Titebond Translucent. Seems to be strong.

 

Comments? Don’t be shy.