Triton cross-section by tkay11 (aka Tony) - FINISHED

[cog]

Love the look of it. Any reason for the epoxy?

[tkay11]

Thanks again, Carl and Dirk.

 

As to the epoxy, Carl, it may be just my imagination, but I have the belief that it provides a stronger bond and I use it where I think there may be greater stresses than normal on a joint -- particularly when handling the whole model while sanding or whatever.

 

I have found that while I concentrate on one particular action I quite often find I'm bending another piece out of its place, or, as I found with the frames, breaking them apart at the glue joins. I found that when I used epoxy those frame joints did not come apart again -- it was only those glued with PVA that did so.

 

Of course I am quite ready to be corrected about the relative merits of PVA and epoxy so please do fire away!

 

Tony

[GuntherMT]

Excellent work!

[Mike40]

Hi Tony. Many good ideas for your build in this log and good progress. As for the irregularities on your frames, I would suggest you cut out straight sections with a flat bottom in the problem areas and just glue in a large pieces of matching wood and then trim them with a knife to the correct shapes. It will not be a noticeable fix and you will not have to disassemble anything to get the job done.

[tkay11]

Yes, good idea Mike. Thanks for the tip. Interestingly I applied the same concept to a beam I cut 0.3mm too short. I glued on an old shaving and then sanded down gently for the correct fit. I'll be doing more of that in the future! On reflection I could have done that with the hanging knees, and I reckon I'll do that for the aftmost hanging knee adjoining the beam arm.

 

And Brian: Thanks for the compliment!

 

Tony

[Mike Y]

Love reading your log, feels like building it myself these "inline" comments on the photos are very handy!

[tkay11]

Thanks, Mike. I do them for other beginners like myself who are probably just as puzzled as I am at several stages of the build and who find pictures easier to think from than words (as I do). But I'd like to return the compliment as I very much appreciate the detail you put into your own logs.

 

Tony

[cog]

Tony,

 

I think glue is a very personal preference, so I just let you use your epoxy. It was merely interest. I do understand the reason, and subsequently the need to apply it

[mtaylor]

Nice work on the lower deck, Tony.  The extra step and research on the knees was beneficial and shows in the appearance.

[tkay11]

Thanks, Mark. I've just been figuring out how to cut out the knees accurately. Guess what! Yes, the trusty old jeweller's saw comes to the rescue. And I was just about to reach for the scroll saw!

 

Tony

[tkay11]

The hanging knees

 

I spent some time thinking how to make the hanging knees. The most helpful thing was to cut the shapes using traced outlines of the knees from the plans, and see how they matched the dimensions on the model.

 

This showed me that I had to make the knees slightly thicker (siding dimension) and add a bit of height.

 

I then measured the thicknesses of the wall at the beam clamps and the lower plank strakes, which showed me by how much I had to adjust the steps. I transferred these measurements to the CAD outlines.

 

At first I had thought I’d use a scroll saw to cut out the hanging knees. On reflection I thought this would not allow the very fine cutting needed for shaping the steps of the knees against the planks.

 

I also experimented with cutting the steps out with a chisel, but this was a total failure.

 

In the end I realised that the best way to do it was in fact the simplest and easiest – using a jeweller’s saw!

 

This turned out to be fairly quick and accurate, with just a little bit of trimming to do with a barrette file.

 

The only slightly tricky knees to do were the ones against the beam arms, since they have to be angled with respect to the hull wall, and shaped against the curve of the arms. However, even that didn’t take up too much time.

 

I’ve shown these aspects in the pictures below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now I can think about the extent to which I will plank the deck.

 

Tony

[tkay11]

Thanks for the likes, everyone!

 

I forgot to mention in the log that my really most favourite tool is the TurboCAD programme. It makes adjustments to the plans extremely easy -- especially when I have to make adjustments as a result of my own errors!

 

Tony

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Very fine cutting by hand. I've allways problems with doing this job manually

Edited November 12, 2016 by AnobiumPunctatum

[tkay11]

That's a very nice compliment, Christian. Thanks. From my point of view it was very much more pleasurable than doing it with a scroll saw. The lack of noise was a very important part of that! Interestingly, it doesn't take that much longer either. The scroll saw is a keeper, though, for the times when a lot has to be done.

 

I think that it's not so much any particular skill that I have, but the little jig that I used that I saw on a YouTube video about how to use a jeweller's saw. That long thin line down the middle really does help keep the saw vertical. I don't have the link any more, but I'm sure a search would find it.

 

Thanks also to those who've been sending me their 'likes'!

 

Tony

[tkay11]

Fixing my mistakes

 

I’m really glad I didn’t start all over again after finding I had over sanded the frames 5. It gave me an opportunity to learn how to fix them. I just layered them with 0.5mm veneer that I had left over from my Sherbourne build and sanded to the widths of frames 4. A lovely little exercise, albeit not perfectly done!

 

 

 

 

Waterways

 

Back to the next steps, or rather planks. I puzzled a bit as to how to cut the waterways, but eventually decided to use my saw as it can be angled. The following diagram shows how I set about making the cuts (actually there was a slight variation in the final angles, but the diagram shows the principles I used):

 

 

 

Lower deck planking

 

I’m leaving just under half of the lower deck un-planked as is common practice. The planks that are partially over the other half are to allow for the stairs and possible pillars (I was undecided at the time of planking as to whether to add pillars to the side of the stairs, but after a recent discussion on the forum I reckon I’ll leave them out as there was no clear decision as to whether they should be there or not, or whether they were movable).

 

One thing mentioned by David Antscherl but not shown on the plans is the larger central plank that supports the gun deck pillars. So I decided to add that.

 

I scribed lines along halfway marks of the beams to place the butt ends of the planks.

 

 

 

Preparing the gun deck beams

 

As before I used the sliding device to measure the width for the beams at each beam station and bent them across a drill bit. This time the central bit was 3.5mm and I added a 2mm bit on either side to provide a more accurate curvature. (The lower deck beams tended to be straight on either side of the central curve after I had used only one drill bit).

 

Again I used the old hair dryer at full blast for two sessions of 10 minutes and then left the clamped beams overnight in the airing cupboard.

 

 

I then bevelled the edges at 10 degrees to fit the angle of the sides, and cut a scrap piece of plywood to the exact height needed in order to test fit the beams.

 

 

Next up is the preparation of the hanging knees and the lodging knees for the gun deck.

 

Tony

[mtaylor]

NIce save on the frame, Tony.  Your problem solving is great and will pay off on future builds.   Interesting method for the waterways.  i fought with that one and I'm still not sure I won.

[tkay11]

Thanks, Mark (and Carl and G.L. for the like). I really am conscious that making mistakes now and learning how to deal with them is laying up a nice hoard of experience for future builds.

 

The trouble for the method for the waterway is that it will only work for a near straight run, as on the cross-section. For long curved runs round the full length of a ship I suppose I'd have to go the scraper way, and I have yet to learn how to do that.

 

I might well practise the scraper method for the gun deck waterway.

 

Tony

Edited November 21, 2016 by tkay11

[tkay11]

GUN DECK WATERWAYS

 

Having thought about the gun deck waterways I realised I just had to learn how to make and use a scraper as the shape was too complex for the simple use of a saw as I had done previously for the lower deck

 

So I made my scraper and found that it was not that hard to use – especially if I kept the old hacksaw blade edges really sharp by frequent rubbing on the diamond stone.

 

 

 

PILLARS FOR GUN DECK BEAMS

 

These were shaped on the lathe as before. I am only using three pillars, and decided to leave off pillars on either side of the steps.

 

 

BITT PINS

 

I first attempted to make these from single blocks of wood, but found that cutting the sheaves using a jeweller’s saw was too inaccurate. In addition, the mill bits I have are too short to go the full length.

 

 

So I went the route of making them from three strips, with the central slice cut very simply with the desktop Proxxon saw.

 

The sheave holes were then cut in the outer strips again using the bench saw.

 

The sheaves themselves were cut in brass rod using one of my home-made gravers. I used dividers to establish the width of the sheave, then a jeweller’s saw to define the outer extent. After then cutting the groove in the sheave it was a simple matter to cut the sheave off the bar using the jeweller’s saw.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next up: putting together the beams, carlings, ledges etc for the gun deck.

 

Tony

[mtaylor]

Very nice work, Tony.  The waterways look perfect as do the pillers and bitts. 

[markjay]

Really very nice work.

Mark

[tkay11]

Thanks for the comments and likes! I'm beginning to get a hang of the rhythms and the requirements for accuracy of cutting and thinking in the various dimensions. It certainly is a very engrossing and rewarding to be building just from plans, and to keep developing new skills as we go along.

 

Another facet that is interesting is the increased focus on good use of basic hand tools -- saw, scalpel, chisel, scraper, file, compass, ruler, dividers, pencil, sanding stick -- and I really appreciate learning about them.

 

Tony

Edited December 5, 2016 by tkay11

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Nice progress, Tony. I like the way ypou build the bitts

[tkay11]

Thanks, Christian. I'm much enjoying your Fly -- as well as learning from the build.

 

Tony

[DocBlake]

Very nicely done!

[the learner]

Just perused your build an you have a fantastic start!

 On the gratings how do you adjust for camber?

[tkay11]

Thanks, Guy. I don't think I'll need to adjust for camber at the base as the gratings will fit into the coamings. On the upper surface I'll likely be sanding against a curve. I have the inside of an old cake tin that seems to have the camber needed, but if not I'll probably cut and sand a surface down and lay some sandpaper on it. It's a long way before I reach that though, so I've time to think about it.

 

What would you suggest?

 

By the way, how are you getting on with the full build?

 

Tony

Edited December 9, 2016 by tkay11

[tkay11]

A NOTE ON MEASUREMENTS

 

I thought I ought to mention a couple of possible difficulties for the unwary (i.e. myself!).

 

The first was that I cut sections out of the lower deck for the bitt pins using the plans for the lower deck layout pattern. This shows the bitt pin area at that level as being square, whereas of course by then the pins are not square, but have been shaped into a rectangle. I decided to keep the square holes and keep the bitt pins square, but that is not how they should be!

 

 

The next thing to point out is that the shape of the hanging knees for the gun deck shown in the ‘midship cross section’ drawing that you can find with the full plans are different from the drawing of two hanging knees for the gun deck you find in the cross-section plans. I started by using the ones from the midship cross section, but found that the more accurate ones were those shown in the cross-section drawings.

 

 

PUTTING UP THE BEAMS

 

Because I had chosen to bend the beams with heat rather than cut the beams to the correct curvature it became necessary to keep the beam at the correct height with the chock I had used earlier. This allowed me to ensure the beams were cut to the correct length before placing the pillar for each beam.

 

 

As I like to be reminded of the scale of the model, I took a contemporary drawing of a sailor and sized him to be 5’4” or 1.62 metres high and placed him on the gun deck.

 

The following shows the current state of the model with the waterways in place and the bitt pins placed but not yet glued as I’m still deliberating as to whether or not to paint them.

 

You'll notice that I changed my mind about not adding pillars on either side of the stairs for the forward beam. I had to put them in for the simple reason that the beam did not retain its full curvature after heat bending. Next time I'll follow David Antscherl's advice and cut the beams to the correct curvature!

 

 

Next up will be the coamings for the forward hatch and perhaps the ladder and the grating coamings for the after hatch.

 

Tony

[DocBlake]

Looking very nice!

[tkay11]

COAMINGS AND GRATING

 

The joints were made as usual with the Proxxon saw. To cut the angles (63 degrees) I first inscribed the top edges by 1.73mm using dividers with the measurement derived from the TurboCAD programme.

 

 

 

This then allowed me to use the saw at an angle which has a nicely accurate indicator in degrees. I edged the coaming towards the saw until it cut right at the line.

 

 

By the way: if you do this, WATCH OUT FOR YOUR FINGERS AS YOU MAY FORGET THE EDGE OF THE SAW COULD BE CLOSER TO THEM THAN YOU THINK! I was wary of this, but thought I’d better mention it in case others might not have thought about it.

 

Having made the coamings, I could now install the grating I made earlier. I now realised that the long edges could not be the same width as the grating battens if they were to fit into the coaming I had made. I reckon I must have made a very slight error in cutting the strips, but thought that I might well make the same kind of error again so I went with the grating as made.

 

 

You might well note that I've not curved the top of the grating to match the deck camber. My decision was the lazy one -- I followed the plans! As for the base of the coamings, where curvature would come into play, again I was lazy -- the tiny cracks at their base sides will be covered by the planking.

 

One small point to watch out for is that if you stick too closely to the plan measurements it is vital to check these against the actual measurements you achieve on the model. In my case the forward hatch I made came out 0.5mm less wide than on the plans, but as this was not going to affect anything except the width of the ladder, I kept the hatch I made.

 

LADDER

 

I debated a while as to how to make the ladder. Essentially the choice was between table saw, hand saw and mill. I decided the easiest would be to use the modified Proxxon drill stand that I made for the Sherbourne. You can see the design at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4539-how-to-modify-proxxon-mb-140-drill-stand-to-act-as-mill/?p=130660.

 

I made a very slight modification to that modification by adding a locking nut below the screw adjuster. This was because I found that vibration during milling made the screw gradually move upwards. You can see this further modification in the following pictures:

 

 

 

The next question was how best to hold the ladder rails in place while milling. I made a paper template and glued that to a rectangle of fibreboard using water-based glue (Pritt stick).

 

After fiddling around clamping the rails to the template I decided to experiment and see if gluing the rail to the template would allow a sufficiently strong bond for milling. I used PVA to do this and it worked very well indeed – allowing me to remove the rail easily after milling with full-strength isopropanol, and allowing me to remove the paper templates from the fibreboard and the rails with a damp sponge.

 

An additional benefit of this way of clamping is that it allows an uncluttered view of the rails whilst milling.

 

 

I could then proceed by clamping the board to the micro compound table.

 

 

To make the rails equal in height and at the correct angles, I bound them together with a couple of spots of PVA, then used the disc sander for the angles. I was really thankful that the Proxxon sander’s degree marker was accurate!

 

 

I then made a simple jig for placing the steps. I again used the idea of gluing a template to the fibreboard base, then gluing battens to the template. To keep the rails apart while fitting the steps I made two temporary and removable battens from old plywood.

 

 

 

PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER

 

This allowed me to assemble the coamings, grating and ladder.

 

 

 

I can see from the results that I should really spend time sanding to achieve the glassy kind of finish that others have done, but for the moment I’m just pleased that I can make and put together all these pieces!

 

Next I’ll do some planking.

 

Tony

Edited December 18, 2016 by tkay11

[-Dallen]

As I start the assembly process of my Triton Cross Section, I have become the preverbal sponge and am absorbing every detail of your build. I pay special attention to your remarks in using TurboCAD as I too want to hone my skills in this area. I applaud your decision to continue your build even in the face of your so called blunders. The learning process is greatly enhanced through trial and error. It takes a true craftsman to take a mistake and make it whole. Good luck and God speed.

 

Dupree