Le Soleil Royal by EJ_L - FINISHED - Sergal - Scale 1:77 - 1669 Version

[Landlocked123]

Hi EJ,

 

The windows look great.  I don’t know if you have been documenting them as you build.  If you have, and can find the time, I would love it if you could put together one of your mini-practicums.

 

I’ll be starting my next build soon and I’m planning on doing a bit of bashing on the MS Armed Virginia Sloop.

One of the problem areas often pointed out on the various build logs are the stern windows. I think I have an idea of how to deal with them and it will involve scratch building the windows.  Thanks

 

Best,

John

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Landlocked123

[EJ_L]

Thanks everyone!!

 

John, I will try to take some more step by step photos and give a run down on what/how/why I am doing. So far it has been a lot of trial and error but I think I may have a plan I can share.

[Landlocked123]

Thanks!!!! That would be great.  Best, J.

[EJ_L]

So here is a basic step by step of how I built the windows. First off, here are the tools that were used. Mostly a collection of knives, files and carving tools, plus pencil and something to measure with.

The main specialty tools that I use to make the process easier but are not required are rotary carving bits and Micro Shapers. The rotary bits I bought fit in my dremel and I use a flex shaft on it for easier handling. The tip is less than 1mm wide, I forget the specific bit number as I am typing this away from the shipyard but I can find out if someone wants it. As I said, the bits are not necessary but they do speed up the carving process.

The Micro Shapers are another great specialty tool that help speed up the carving process and is how I make some of the decorative moldings. I bought them in 2 packs of three scrapers each and each scraper has 16 different shapes and sizes so they will fit almost any trim board for the most common scales. They do work faster on softer woods but they will work on hardwood as well, just takes more time. Basically you just pull them along the piece you want to shape until you reach the desired depth and definition. Not much else to it. 

Using the shapers is how I made the mullions in between the windows. The main framing for the windows has already been done as have the solid panels below but they are easy enough to do. I divided up the space into half and each half into 3. The outermost space is naturally bigger than the inner 2 as the hull curves outward and so to does the space as it follows. Cut the vertical mullions to length and shape them, then glue in place. Next I squared off the lower half making the height the same as the width so it would make a square. Again the outer 2 sections will not make squares as the space is getting wider towards the bottom. OI inserted the horizontal piece that divides the window panes from the solid panel so now each vertical space is divided by 2. Using a thin piece of wood sheet I cut out the back pieces and inserted them into the lower square so it is now solid. Then it is just a matter of inserting the 4 pieces of trim inside the lower panel.

Onto the upper half and the window panes. The decorative piece at the top I made by first dividing the upper section into thirds. The top third is for this piece. I cut a piece of wood to width and length and traced my design onto it. Then using the rotary carver I cut away the inside until I had the relief I wanted. Using a knife I then cut the underside of the curved area and filed/sanded till smooth. Then inserted them into place in the upper portion of the window. 

Next up it was time to build the framework for the individual panes. This is done with 3 vertical pieces of wood, 1 on each side and one in the middle. Cut, fit and insert these first gluing them in place then do the horizontals which are 4 pieces made the same way as the verticals and set evenly spaced to divide up the window into the 6 individual panes. 

That is basically it. I did not mention types of wood or sizes as those will have to be selected and adjusted based on the individual model. No single step in the process is hard, just time consuming. I can build a window in about 1-2 hours now that I know how I am building them. The first on took about 5 hours and had a lot of rework and changes. For reference though, each window on my build is only about 11mm x 22mm.

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

really nice EJ   neat tool to make scribe!

[testazyk]

Well done and well worth it!  Are you going to leave the window panes open or fill them in in some way?

[yancovitch]

microscope slides.....never liked plastics...............easy to clean and easy to remove overpaint....micro shapers....never knew....too late for me now though .....windows lookin good...........

Edited December 15, 2017 by yancovitch

[testazyk]

Yes I've heard of the little cover slides for microscopes being used and that probably makes most sense for this build so that the interior details will be visible thanks to the lights. 

 

 

[ca.shipwright]

Superb engineering and execution on those windows. This is definitely and add-on to the how to file that I keep now that my memory seems to be trashed.

[md1400cs]

E.J... yea as many have said those windows are indeed superb - that will make for an awesome start for detaining this complicated stern.

 

PS: Sure like that Micro Shapers tool. need to get one of those (;-)

 

PS:2  found one on eBay!!

 

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by md1400cs

[EJ_L]

Thanks everyone for the nice comments and likes!

I’m not sure yet if I am going to put any glazing in the windows yet or leave them open. I hadn’t thought about using microscope slide covers. That might be worth looking into as my current plan was to dig through the scrap and extra clear plastic I use on my model railroad buildings. I’m going to expirement a little and see what options look and work the best while still allowing the interior to be seen. 

 

Those shapers are a great set of tools to have on hand for this type of work. Definitely a good investment. 

 

Work update, the first row of windows is complete! Moving on to the second and this one has more details so new challenges. 

[yancovitch]

now there yi go ....

[KenW]

I like the little furniture you can see on the lower decks.  Great work.\

Cheers.

[EJ_L]

Working on the second tier of windows. I still have some ornamentation's to carve but I figured this was a good point to upload some more pictures. I went a little fancier on the trim work such as rounding the lower inlay borders and adding the step bases on the window mullions as well as the triangular details at the upper center of the window arches. This deck is rather detailed and since it is the Admiral's cabin balcony, it makes a lot of sense. I have an idea on how to carve the vertical decorations that rest on the mullions as well as the capitals at their tops.

 

Also, for anyone wondering, no I am not building these in place on the ship. the entire stern bulkhead is still removable so I can work on it flat on the table then put it in place to see how it looks and for pictures. Once I am done with the windows and decorations in that area, I will then secure it in place and add the planking on the edges to clean it up. That is also when the really elaborate details begin...

[Old Collingwood]

Perfect job - well well worth the effort its looking really nice.

 

OC.

[Hubac's Historian]

EJ, the middle tier really looks fantastic.  I really like your layered approach to adding in the details.  In particular, Inlike the beveled moukdings that frame the lower panels of the middle tier.  The mitered corners look really great and finished.  All of this adds tremendously to the appearance of the stern and makes a great base for the ornamental accents tyat are soon to come.  I wonder, though, whether you will re-work the upper tier to match this middle tier, or will those panels receive a different treatment?

[John Allen]

E.J.,

Those windows showcase the stern the extra effort does and will make this build of Soliel one of the best on this site. Kudos

[EJ_L]

As always, thank you to everyone for the nice comments, likes and suggestions. They are always welcome and keep me motivated!

 

Marc, you have asked the very question I keep asking myself, will I change the upper tier? Yes and no. First off, the problem with finding better ways of doing something means that the previous good work is now not good enough. So in the case of the upper tier's lower panels, I will most likely be changing out the squared off trim for rounded, mitered trim to match the middle. It is a much cleaner look and really what I wanted in the first place. However, in my endeavor to make each tier slightly different, the upper will not have quite as much ornamentation around the mullions as the middle tier. I want each tier to have it's own appearance and looking at the paintings I have seen, I feel this is representative of the ship as each tier appears to have a slightly different decorative style.

 

On a similar topic, is there any known color scheme for the stern? I have seen a few renderings of it with color added but I do not know if these are accurate or if they are something that was done on a whim. Thanks!

[Hubac's Historian]

I hear what you are saying about keeping some variety from one tier to the next, but in my opinion, this is largely accomplished by the varying ornament of the stern balcony railings.  The mitered panel surrounds are a good argument for consistency on that particular detail.

 

As for the stern paint scheme - like you, I have been mulling over the water colored draft of Berain’s stern, which appears to show a very faded red color for most of the stern, with ultra-marine accent on the tafferal.

 

A while back, J.C. Lemineur suggested to me that it was more likely that all of SR’s upper bulwarks were painted something like Vasa red, rather than ultra-marine.  Yet there are first-hand descriptions of the ship that confirm a black boot-top along the lower main wales, ventre-de-biche along the lower and middle batteries, and royal blue upper bulwarks.

 

Personally, while I will incorporate two shades of blue into my upper bulwark broadsides, I am strongly considering the use of something vivid, like Vasa red, for the stern, which would also be accented with ultra-marine blue in a way that is consistent with my use of this color as an accent on my broadsides.  In my vue, there is at least a contemporary document to suggest that this was possible/plausible, and I have yet to see the ship modeled in that color scheme, so I like the uniqueness of that presentation.

 

The aspect of that presentation that I haven’t completely figured out yet, is where the middle-balcony wraps to the quarter gallery.  On your model, EJ, the lower balcony also wraps to the quarters, so this suggests the need for using blue in the right spots to create a natural transition between the two colors.

[testazyk]

Hi Hubac & EJ--  Interesting discussion about the stern design.  I'm thinking through the some of the same issues and hoping to get my stern a little more interesting than what the kit provides.  I came across this picture which uses very subdued colours but along the same lines that Hubac is referring to--thought you might be interested.   

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by testazyk
clarification

[Landlocked123]

EJ - the windows are coming out great.  Thanks for sharing the “how to”. Best, John

[popeye the sailor]

the windows are coming along great EJ..........really going to enhance the stern.  

[EJ_L]

Added a little color the past couple days. Wanted to see how it would look with some paint. I think it turned out ok so far. 

[Old Collingwood]

Very nice.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

agreed.......looks very nice EJ   

[BLACK VIKING]

Stunning work EJ the blue really makes the windows pop .

Happy holidays my friend.

Martyn

[donrobinson]

That stern is giving her a real sense of "Royalty", very nice work. Merry Xmas

[yancovitch]

super ej...love the blue on the square panels.....and seasons best to you and every one on the forum....

[donrobinson]

Hi EJ, have you ever seen this site, http://www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/order/index.htm, they have some awesome cannons specifically for your ship. I just thought I may be of help spending some more of your money 

[Hubac's Historian]

Wow Don - great link!!  These cannon look almost se good as the ones Neko and Michel had cast.  I’ll have to look into whether using three of the smaller sizes will work for my 1:100 scale.  Good looking out!!  And happy holidays!!