By the Deep 17 by dafi - FINISHED - Royal Navy 1780/1805 diorama

[dafi]

As a small Easter surprise, a small project I am working on to try out some things, just to see ...

 

Small flash back: From my first casting trials, i had left a piece of formed resin ...

 

 

... uand it was saying "Hy" to me all the time 🙂

 

 

 

First the standards: out the scaler and eliminating the "wood"-grains ...

 

 

.... thinning the backsides ...

 

 

... redoing the ports (middle) ...

 

 

... nicely to be seen from the back.

 

[dafi]

 

Fixed on the display by a screw ...

 

 

... etch parts and new rails fitted ...

 

 

... and pictures we know from my Victory build like carving timberheads ...

 

 

... filling the badly drilled dead eyes ...

 

 

... making the chainplates ...

 

 

... the channels - at least one - ...

 

 

... new profiles and the first blow bigger of the project: the hull got new planks of better dimensions ...

 

 

... and a tad of color to see what I am doing.

 

 

Happy Easter, Daniel

Edited March 31, 2013 by dafi

[druxey]

Looks like a fun little project, Daniel!

[dafi]

Thank you Druxey, I am shure it will proove interesting and fun to myself. 

 

But where does this lead? To the usual twists and confusions in dafis world of modelism :-)

 

After the first coat of primer I left the can on the balcony, stupid idea, as the color got to cold ...

 

 

... which I was mad aware by an apart giraffe pattern on the model :-(

 

So back to zero and take down the paint with the help of a scaler. 

 

 

... reworked the splitlines ...

 

 

... and saw (PUN!) the results of this unexpected action. The scratching down the color left some rattling marks.

 

One needs to be able to see and realise, but these rattle marks look very much like the marks of handsawn wood, also seen on older ships.

 

I was already looking for a long time how to differenciate a painted steel hull from a painted wooden hull. I think with the slightly uneven levels of the different planks, the different dimensions of the gaps in between the planks and the rattle marks, I am coming quite close to the look I am looking for :-)

 

 

And now we come to the typical dafinistic approach in model making: Destruction!!!

 

 

... hihihihihihihi...

 

... and hohoho, snailed around a bit ...

 

 

... rebuild the rails to slightly different dimensions ...

 

 

... and redoing the splitlines with the help of Dymo tape.

 

 

...hihihihihihi...

 

XXXDAn

[mtaylor]

Interesting project, Daniel.  I can hardly wait to see where this voyage leads you and us.

[dafi]

Me too, I am curious ;-)

 

Next step already done: duplication :-)

 

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

And then some white priming and then the part I was most looking for - The color trials:

 

 

And this could have given a nice first of April Easter nest :-)

 

...hihihihihi...

 

XXXDAn

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Hohohoho ...

 

oh damn it's not Christmas, but cold enough here.  Nice little easter eggs

[patrickmil]

Are you going for an "Andy Warhol" effect? LOL. I really enjoy watching your projects come to life.

[dafi]

if you believe, you could escape of that one so easily, you could be wrong.

Do not forget, model making is a serious business ;-)

 

As said before, some color tests were to be done on a casein base ...

 

 

... looking spectacular, but far too fooked up :-)

 

The good thing on the casein paint is, take a wet cloth and just wipe and redo .-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited April 1, 2013 by dafi

[dafi]

The most difficuklt task for me: waaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiitiiiiing until the paint gets dry enough ...

 

more trials with the casein paint ...

 

 

 

...  and oil paint diluted with original Zippo lighter fuel.

 

 

And it looks much different now.

 

Also see some small thoughts about "As times go by" ...

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1593-as-time-goes-by-how-do-ships-age/#entry33202

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

And now the weekend´s results ...

 

Two new hull pieces of the 1805 version and the applied parts...

 

 

... first the origials, then the copies and with the molds.

 

 

Nice to ee the differences in the colors, position of the channels, the anchor protections and the timberheads.

 

Grüßle, Daniel

[dafi]

Slowly things are starting to get messy ;-) 

 

 

This state still was too fooked, even though already twice reduced. The casein paint is easily to be gradually removed by wet brush, or if far too much by a wet cloth. Here the collection of paints, large brush, the inlay of a sweets box for mixing ...

 

 

... here taking off the paint with brush, pipe cleaner and Q-Tipp, afterwards more paint in different shades, allow extremely weeeeeeeeeel drying and taking the exceed of if necessary.

 

 

Funnily both samples are coming closer together.

 

 

Made the marks of the scuppers, the black not only being dirt but also the often seen black rot of the surface and gaps if wood is continuously confronted with wet dirt.

 

 

And both trials in comparission.

 

 

And finally the hinges added and integrated with some shades.

 

 

All the best, Daniel

Edited April 15, 2013 by dafi

[mtaylor]

Your weathering is paying off.  Looks like wood with real wear and tear. 

[dafi]

So a little bit of basic work.

 

The aim is to explore how a hull could have been looking before the wasp-lines came up. So it should be "paid bright with rosin". Contemporary pictures and models show a light/bright color. If I understand well, it could still have been a bit transparent. In german wikipedia rosin is mentioned to be used for painting violins.

 

Also the sources give rosin diluted with turpetine. Both products are result from distilling resin from special pine trees. Does that mean, that some color was still aded to get the bright look?  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin

 

Some contemporary models:

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/mediaLib/668/media-668380/large.jpg

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/mediaLib/541/media-541666/large.jpg

 

Some contemporary paintings

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/mediaLib/484/media-484826/large.jpg

http://collectionsonline.nmsi.ac.uk/detail.php?type=related&kv=65421&t=objects

http://collectionsonline.nmsi.ac.uk/detail.php?type=related&kv=65431&t=objects

 

Here some pictures that Blue Ensign was showing in another thread, thank you! 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/a-sixth-rate-on-the-stocks-173292

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/a-naval-snow-173093

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/ships-in-a-light-breeze-173091

http://www.lanefineart.com/component/virtuemart/shop.product_details/12/flypage_images.tpl/70.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/a-naval-brigantine-in-a-calm-sea-173289

 

Concerning the black marks on the Scuppers. I do not se them in first place as dirt, but much more this kind of nasty black mold, like it happens to get if does not air the shower regularly. The ship was not wet the whole time, harbors, nice weather or calms. The water coming out was for sure not too clean and once this stuff is there it is difficult to get rid off.

 

Interestingly, the paining of the Victory by Monamie Swaine shows some darker vertical lines exactly in the distance the scuppers were. Also the colors were a guideline for may trials. This picture is a bit darker to better show the lines.

 

 

 

Back to the pictures of the Neptune: Link # 1 shows the fresh paint, #2 already paler, #3 worse and #5 really fooked. The end is completely pale wood or the black mold growing over the completely hull.

 

Here some more pictures of different woods and paints. But the results are quite common. The paint in a good condition in protected areas and less good in exposed ones. All corners, nails and edges left marks on the wood.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here the deck was painted at one time. In protected areas it is still to be seen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After a long period, the color becomes more uniform.

 

 

 

 

And here some old paint with rust ...

 

 

 

 

 

Grüßle, Daniel

[michael mott]

Daniel it is interesting to follow your research into the colours and weathering of the woods on the ships and boats.

 

Michael

[MSzwarc]

Also the sources give rosin diluted with turpetine. Both products are result from distilling resin from special pine trees. Does that mean, that some color was still aded to get the bright look? 

 

 The term "bright" means the woodwork was varnished rather than painted. No pigment would have been used on brightwork. The term is applied to both varnished woodwork, and polished metalwork on ships and boats.

[dafi]

Hello Mark, Michael, Mike and Robin,

 

thank you all. Mike, are there any contemporary sources confirming this?

Is it really a reddish appearence like I expect by name and contemporary violin paints?

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited April 18, 2013 by dafi

[MSzwarc]

I don't have any contemporary sources, but look up the term "brightwork" in the online Merriam-Webster dictionary. Also, from Howard Chapelle's Boatbuilding:

 

"Varnished or oiled decks are called 'bright decks' and are perhaps one of the highest tests of workmanship a builder has to meet."

 

And here's a link to the Google books page on Brightwork: the Art of Finishing Wood by Rebecca Wittman, with a good description of what brightwork is.

[Paul Salomone]

Hello Daniel,

 

Wow, Now that is what I call mixed medium - resin and wood.

 

Very nice casting indeed. I shall experiment with that type of work in the near future, as the twin 105mm calibre anti-aircraft guns for the Scharnhorst, shall consist of 900 pieces each, and I have 7 mountings to do. So I have to do a bit of mass production to be able to do all the parts required.

[dafi]

Thank you Mike and Paul.

 

Good hint you gave to the brightwork. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightwork

 

XXXDAn

[dafi]

Here we go again ...

 

The chainwhales/ancor protection fitted ...

 

 

... and remembered the wasp-twins. So painted, redrawn the grooves, guide is the plastic stripe from a labeling machine ...

 

 

... and treated the bottom one with a diluted blach ink to enhance structures. The top is the usual clean version

 

 

Casted new iron brackets ...

 

 

... and made more mess.

 

 

Then added some rust, some scupper delicacies, some rust from all the iron work and some chipped color as nicely to be seen on todays Vic.

 

 

A bit rough at the first moment, but if one consider the ships being out for months on blockade duty, I believe this was not the worst ...

 

And if one looks at the Surprise in San Diego ...

http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk163/pict9072.jpg

... surprise, surprise ...

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited April 26, 2013 by dafi

[dafi]

Just realised, that one part of the basic research was missing here ...

 

 

I was researching more about the aging of ships. Unsually we tend to display the ships in a freshly build and painted state. Some bold versions show the ships in quite "wrecked" appearances. But I do believe, that most of their life, the ships were somewhere in between.

 

This made me have a closer look. I chose the following 3 ships, as I knew, that there is quite good documentation in the web.

 

First the Neptune in Genove (Google pictures: Neptune/ship/genova), light wooden hull

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/jarmi7d/5044918333/

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/peer_gynt/7655543406/

http://www.wanderingoverland.com/?p=855

http://photo.remgo.com/galeone-neptune/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peer_gynt/8033111211/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genova-Porto_antico-DSCF7741.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Genova-Porto_antico-DSCF7743.JPG

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune_(galleon)

 

Funny to compare the freshly painted version with the neglected one. Nice to see the better condition in protected areas like underneath the channels. Exposed areas like underneath the cathead look much more tattered. Was this also on seagoing ships that extreme or is this more of a harboring effect? But also ships spent long times in harbor do to waiting, winter sleep or being in ordinary.

 

 

And the Gotheburg (Google: Gotheburg, ship), dark wooden hull

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maskofchina/311861497/

http://www.lemback.com/the-swedish-ship-gotheborg/

http://viktordonovan.blogspot.de/2011/07/replica-1745-sailing-ship-in-gothenburg.html

http://www.lifeinnorway.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/goteborg13.png

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/62/8002362/3530663266666630.jpg

 

By the dark hull, the effects are not as visible like on the neptune. Funny to see the fresh scratch marks on the whales in some of the pictures

 

Then theHMS Surprise (Google: surprise, rose, san diego), painted hull

http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#view=photo&position=185&with_photo_id=13424720&order=date_desc&user=2074768

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arejay/165878016/

http://photos.lomara.org/index.php/camera/sandiego/100_0825

http://www.flickr.com/photos/seaveyfamily/215130447/lightbox/

HMSSurpriseQtrbow800.jpg

and my favorites:

http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk163/pict9071.jpg

http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk163/pict9072.jpg

 

Also here by the degradation of the paint, one can exactly tell which year the picture was taken ;-)

The difference in between the fresh and the tattered is amazing.

Nice to see bleaching, rust, chipped color, algae on the waterline, patches and so  

 

Also do not forget: Ships were build over some period, where the wood was alraedy exposed. So even a brand new ship usually was unlikely to show fresh wood in larger areas. But therefor repaired areas would stick out. On the other side I have never seen the patchwork on deckplanks like often shown in plastic models.

 

Amicalement, Daniel

[Kevin]

wonderful work, ill be interested to see how you would approach the sail cloth, and make it look distressed

[dafi]

Thank you Kevin,

 

this will be another interesting story. Be shure one day it will come :-)

 

 

And now something completely different ...

Even though I cant tell how much colorisation was done afterwards, two interisting versions of the same photo, possibly HMS Implacable.

http://www.napoleon1er.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=342084&sid=ba7bd7589372562542d84e51f725c6f6#p342084

 

Also nice picture 3, that make my trials look brand new ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited April 24, 2013 by dafi

[dafi]

So what would be a dafithread without Dafinism?

 

Already I wondered that nobody did moan, as I did not bolt the channel onto the gunwale but on top of it instead ?!?

 

...

 

...

 

... so dafi does what dafi knows best ...

 

... DESTRUCTION!!! ...

 

 

Positively seen, this gave a nice test, if the technic is dafiproof - If I mange to cover up the damages caused by this little action, I am on the right way :-)

 

So fixed the channels on the right hight ...

 

 

... coverd the holes with the basic color, first layers with three different shades of brown ...

 

 

... and drying-washing of-adding more-and-so-on and it goes the right direction :-)

 

 

Close enough to the original version, so I am quite happy ;-)

 

XXXDAn

Edited April 26, 2013 by dafi

[dafi]

Sooooooo after some time finally managed to do some new bricotage ...

 

... fitted the deadeyes ...

 

 

... used the revolutionairy Double-Twin-Super-Drive-Technology for grinding the needle heads ...

 

 

... put the batten ...

 

 

... and it looks even neater than the bits on my Vic :-)

 

 

Too take this back added some paint and rust ...

 

 

 

 

 

... and tomorrow once the paint is well dried, I can take it back a tad and do the finetuning :-)

 

Lieber Gruß, Daniel

[mtaylor]

I can't speak for others, but the weathering is so fascinating that I missed the channnel location.  But then again, it's the Victory and wouldn't know the proper place to begin with.  Now about the finetuning... does this mean it will be better?  Better than great!????

[Kevin]

i cannot imagine doing my whole build like this, it would however look fantastic

 

All the best

[dafi]

Here both versions side by side, same ship, only 40 years of difference in between ...

 

 

 

... fascinating, as a good friend of mine would say ;-)

 

Got the gun carriages messed and gave a brownisch oil coat to the barrels as some of the ingredients - rust and tar - suggest ...

 

 

... and the tompions plain without color, sticking out and not todays fancy thread in the middle, as the artifacts in NMM and museums suggest. Just one try with a line that goes around, but it does not look to convincing.

 

The shoe for the anchor was fixed in the appropriate place and that is the thing for the moment :-)

 

 

Cheers, Daniel

Edited May 4, 2013 by dafi