Wasan 1628 by Nazgul - FINISHED - Billing Boats Vasa 1:75

[NAZGÛL]

Hey again!

 

I'm finally done with the channels and its details. Also did the collar holding on to the bowsprit.

 

First a pic I took at the museum.

 

 

And how mine turned out:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time to start planning those ratlines now...

 

 

/Matti

[NMBROOK]

Stunning work mate I think you will have no problems with the ratlines other than the fact it is so time consuming.You started the rigging with much trepidation but your abilities are shining through

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[themadchemist]

All I can say Matti is this...

if you sunk yours to the bottom of the ocean for aging purposes and turned the lights down low, one would think they were the same. Gil in his Vicky log has pictures like this of is it real or model and so many times you can't tell.

 

Your problem is - the not being at the bottom for centuries aging effect. Now that would be a model, built as she sits today.

 

At every step you prove, there is more to Matti then just a great paint detailer.

 

BTW that 2nd to last picture of the starboard bow shot is AMAZING.

the last one could have used showing a bit more side.

As she grows your having to step back in order to get her all in one shot

 

You must be very proud, you deserve it....and to think, a first wooden build  

Edited October 12, 2014 by themadchemist

[NAZGÛL]

Cheers mate! Actually I'm enjoying the rigging so far. After all that shaping of the deadeyes and metal parts it feels so quick to just color the ropes and put them on and thats it. I'm sure ratlines will be different as there are so many though.

 

Two questions:

 

When is the best time to make the "ladders" (A) up to the tops? I would guess after the ratlines are on.

 

Is it possible to get the curved sag the real ratlines get ( B )? I'm afraid lose ratlines would curve unrealistically and look wormy (if that's a word haha) as a thin thread has little weight.

 

 

/Matti

Edited October 12, 2014 by NAZGÛL

[NAZGÛL]

Many thanks Keith for the kind words! This is the most fun I had with modelbuilding, so many different stuff going on, yet the pace is slow so it's very relaxing. I did consider making it based onhow she looks today, but I'm to interested in the 17th century to do that. Half the fun is looking at reference trying to decide how to paint the sculptures.

 

I'm starting to get a list of things I would do different next build but I try to take the misstakes as lessons learned. It's like the collars, the first I did for the the mizzen is more slobby compaired to the other two as I learned how to during the build. Same with the first shrouds compaired to the later ones.But on the other hand I can follow the progression when looking at them.

 

 

/Matti

[Ponto]

Ratlines are a judgment endeavour and you will know when they are too tight, too loose, and just right...just trial and error.  A little sag is what i try to incorporate with a slight (very little)  touch of cyano working the "droop" with a toothpick until hardened off. After some practice its a method which works for me..........

 

\jp

[mtaylor]

Matti,

 

On the ratlines, what I've used is a 50-50 mix of water and white glue brushed on.  I find CA turns the line white but the white glue doesn't.  As always, test before proceeding.

[NAZGÛL]

Thanks for your suggestions guys! I tend to use CA alot when building so I guess I could learn to control it. Instead of white, I often get the ropes to get to dark, or a wet look. I have also tried the white glue from time to time, like the flag above. The problem I can see using it is to be able to shape it as it takes hours to dry. Like you say I will do some testing before starting. 

 

 

/Matti

[NMBROOK]

Hi mate

The 'ladders' are invariably tied in with the next set of lower deadeyes,so these would need fitting first.

When fitting the ratlines it is best to try and not create any twisting in the thread,this causes the 'worm' appearance and makes it harder to get the thread to sag.As Mark says dilute PVA painted on helps you to control the thread.My suggestion would be to cut some strips of Plasticard a couple of mm narrower than the distance between the shrouds.Place a fold in the middle and hang these on the ratlines after applying dilute PVA.The weight of these strips should induce the desired sag and hold it whilst the glue dries off.The dilute PVA should not stick to the plasticard.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[NAZGÛL]

Great suggestion Nigel, I'll keep that in mind when testing the white glue mix!

 

Cheers!

 

/Matti

[Mike Y]

Sorry to hijack into that log, but I found an interesting post. Wasa museum is building a small section of the hull, historically correct.

It is under construction, and the latest info is here: http://www.vasamuseet.se/sv/Skeppet/Skeppsbloggen/Hakan-Altrock/Nyanser-av-gratt/

Looking forward to see it!

[NAZGÛL]

Thanks buddy, glad you're back! Yeah outdoor picture are better and more fun to take also but it rained all day yesterday.

 

And thanks for the likes everyone!

 

Mike, yeah what a cool experiment, it was on the news earlier and Fred Hocker and the carpenters put a bet on if the cannon ball would destroy it.

 

 

/Matti

Edited October 13, 2014 by NAZGÛL

[mar3kl]

Beautiful rigging work.  If you stick with clove hitches for the ratlines, you should be able to avoid twisting - it's a little more challenging to avoid twisting if you use half hitches.  On my first model I had good success with the water/white glue mix mentioned above, plus pushing down slightly on the centers of the lines with a toothpick until they "set", to give a hanging appearance.  I think you'll find CA way too blunt an instrument for this stuff.

 

mark

[NAZGÛL]

Thanks Mark! Yeah I will try clove hitches.I will make a false rigging now and see how it works.

 

 

/Matti

[mobbsie]

Hi Matti,

 

Ratlines can be a problem at times, clove hitches are the way to go and with practice are very quick and you will most likely get the result your looking for.

 

I like the look of the one's you've done so far, for a first time their bl__dy remarkable mate.

 

I have never got it right yet, mostly tight which is how I like it ( not accurate I know ) with a droop every now and again. Maybe I'll get it right next time.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[Ulises Victoria]

I remember once doing a test using regular overhand knots to tie my ratlines, thinking that the difference would not be noticeable and that the work would be faster.

Well, the difference WAS noticeable and the work was NOT faster. After tying several thousands of clove hitches, they were just like a second nature.

[NAZGÛL]

Cheers mobbsie! Thanks for the heads up Ulises!

 

I'll build the fake shrouds and start experimenting now.

 

 

/Matti

[NAZGÛL]

I did a little test on the fake shrouds just to see if I could get any controle of the curve. I felt at home with the CA on toothpick method so I will probably go with that. It also turned out to have the advantage that the ratlines when glued end up close to the color my painted shrouds have.

 

 

Next I did some templates by scaling pictures of the real ship. That way I hope to get the same curves as she has, and also how to space them.

 

 

Gulp, this means I'm going to have a go at the model now...

 

 

/Matti

Edited October 14, 2014 by NAZGÛL

[riverboat]

If there's any one that  can do it..... you can Matti !!

Frank

Edited October 14, 2014 by riverboat

[NAZGÛL]

Cheers mate!

 

 

/Matti

[themadchemist]

Hey Matti
 
Not being critical, just curious.
...was the practice done with smaller diameter rope on the shrouds? I saved pictures to the desktop and compared your actual shrouds and the practice shrouds appear smaller...but you know how hard scale is to judge... (I have found I save lots of pictures for blowing up to see detail better)
The reason I ask is that I have a huge issue when the shroud to ratline proportions are not far enough apart. The proportion on the practice looks good, but the shrouds look smaller diameter then your previous photos of your Wasan 1628.
 
Looking at the real ship rigging the ratline dimension appears 1/2 or less.
 
Here's the picture you posted earlier of the real ship and a cutout, which becomes pixelated when expanded, but as expanded the ratlines appear to be even a smaller diameter (less than 1/2). Isn't scaling a pain. Also can anyone out there tell me the best way the measure rope diameter, The compression in the calipers gives quite a range and I finally just had Chuck send what he saw best. Having many differing thicknesses really helps and for me adds HUGELY to the overall detail.
 


 
Again, I know whatever you do will be Exceptional, or it wouldn't happen. The practice shrouds just looked smaller.. but that could have been the board background.
 
Ratlines are really going to make a huge wonderful change, it always does. You will probably be tying clove hitches in your dreams before your finished. My builds always invade my dreams, especially the HUGE tasks, I see it as extra practice

[Ponto]

The "practice" round looks good...  and I think one can obsess over trying to achieve perfect symmetry with the ratlines. A little serendipity looks more natural as far as I'm concerned ------It also looks like there is some slackness to the real shroud images and this will prove very challenging at the scale we work at --- I find that the shrouds need to be quite taut otherwise tying the ratlines may distort the shrouds..........enjoy!!!!!!!!

 

JP

[NAZGÛL]

Thanks for the input Keith, its appreciated!

 

Here is a more high res pic:

 

 

 

 

You may be right, but to my eye it looks right on the model.

 

I do tend to like downscaling details pretty often on my models...

 

 

/Matti

[NAZGÛL]

Yeah Ponto, some shrouds slack a lot on the original. It´s new business for me, but I cant see no other way to get that in this scale without gluing the shrouds with CA, and that would probably not look nice at all. I hope I can catch some of the look with the sagging ratlines.

 

 

/Matti

[themadchemist]

No Matti, I think the size on the model looks perfectly matched to the real ship photo scale-wise.
 
It was just that the practice shrouds looked smaller to my eye, like I said it could have been the background board, just like the outside lighting give a better photographic representation of color.

I was just thinking that if it was smaller, the proportion of shroud to ratline would be greater on the model, if the small ratline size was used on the model and would look great. I'm not nit-picking, just thinking out loud.
 
I'm not saying anything is wrong, just wondered if the practice shrouds were thinner or the same as on the model.
 
Looking at these 2 pictures, assuming shroud separation is constant, to my eye the practice shroud look thinner. Its probably an illusion from the background.

[mar3kl]

Are you using the kit-supplied thread or buying from scale rope suppliers?  I haven't really looked at the kit-supplied stuff yet, but the first model I built had thread that was way out of scale and I needed to replace it to get it to look right.

 

mark

[NAZGÛL]

Ah, Just me reading your post all wrong Keith! I read ratlines, long day today. I was wondering about the ratline thickness earlier, and I guess thats why I read wrong. The rope is the same (not as the mizzen that I gave thinner shrouds), but unpainted on the plank.

 

I bought many different thicknesses, and judge the rope thickness by eye compaired to reference or what look I prefer.

 

 

/Matti

[NAZGÛL]

Mark, I use waxed Mantua rigging thread. Very nice quality and looks the part. It's a lot better compaired to the kit supplied thread.

 

 

/Matti

[themadchemist]

If you use that same "eye" you've used so far it WILL be excellent.

 

I tend to eyeball many things rather then measure, on small stuff sometimes I think over exaggerating certain features or ratios, sometimes gives a more detailed look, in for example the shroud to ratline ratio. When I see shrouds tied with ratline of the same size its like fingernails on a chalkboard for me, but in some kits the rope is so limited. My swift had 2 sizes of white thread. I upgraded to 5 sizes of brown and 4 of tan to cover all my bases.

 

I just thought you might have used some scrap rope for practice, as it looked different.

[NAZGÛL]

Thanks man! I eyeball as much as I can. But that would not work if I had no real ship to look at. I suck at interpreting plans though so that way has big downsides also.

 

Matti