USS Tennessee 1869 by Keith Black - scale 1:120 - Wood Hull Screw Frigate - ex Madawaska 1865

[BANYAN]

Oh come on Keith - shackles should be easy    Just kidding mate!  At these scales I use thin wire as a loop to join the hook (or other item) to the block/eyebolt and twist the two ends together, bend the twisted wire to 90 degrees to the loop, then snip off leaving a short projection to simulate the projection of the pin.   As to hooks, there are some very small photo etch versions around if you want to use them.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited May 23, 2021 by BANYAN

[Keith Black]

 Pat, how big was the average shackle used back then, six inches? That's .05, at .05 my fingers don't wanna cooperate. I've made a couple at larger scale just messing about but have never tried to seriously make a shackle at .05 inches, that just makes my head hurt. But hey, I'll gladly come over to your site and cheer you on whilst you make em. I thought long and hard about PE hooks but after seeing them in use I'm not convinced. There is a company that makes hooks that are drop dead gorgeous but they be kinda spendy. And heck, I've got to make some of this stuff or they're going to want me to remove "scratch" from the title.  

[BANYAN]

Keith, no easy answer I am afraid.  These days with modern steel shackles, one of the more important factors is 'breaking strain' / how tensile is the pin etc.  To be honest I have not worried and simply used thin wire to join the two item as above.  Just enough detail to suggest a shackle.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited May 23, 2021 by BANYAN

[Roger Pellett]

The Smithsonian institution has a very large model of USS Antietam, a sailing warship built in 1871.  The model was built to a scale of 1-1/2in = 1’-0” as a seamanship teaching aid for US Naval Academy Midshipmen.  The model was restored for the 1976 Bicentennial at which time measured drawings were prepared for blocks found on the model.  The drawing was published in an old edition of the Nautical Research Journal and it is reproduced in Volume I, page 167 of the NRG’s shop notes.

 

Roger

Edited May 23, 2021 by Roger Pellett
Corrected date to 1871

[Keith Black]

 Pat, I put a couple of hours of effort into making shackles with no success. I got one that sort of resembled a shackle at 16 inch scale. The ones I tried making at 6 inch scale looked like twisted dead gnats.

 

 Pictured is a .153 inch block (18 inch at scale) that I stropped. A natural becket occurs when the wire is formed around the block (opposite the hook end) that I've tied the line to, this maybe as good as it gets? I have thought about putting a simple ring through the becket, I'll make up a test piece and see what that looks like.

 

 Roger, thank you for the heads up regarding the NRG shop notes. I need to invest in both volumes. 

 

 

 Thank you to all for the comments, likes and stopping by. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Keith Black

[FriedClams]

Love all your various blocks Keith - they turned out very nice.  I like the way your rigged block looks, even in the greatly magnified photo above.  A shackle at .05" is crazy small and in my unasked for opinion, I just don't believe it's worth the effort to create something (300 times) which in the end will only detract from the overall look and feel of the model just to say the detail is there.  Usually when I model something that looks like a "twisted dead gnat" (made me laugh out loud) - I leave it out.  It's a scale representation 120 times smaller than the prototype and many details must of course be left off.  

 

Very nice progress Keith.

 

Gary

[BANYAN]

Keith there is a point (scale/size) where it is just not possible.  The block above looks good mate, but might I suggest that unless it is just a temporary fit, the bottom line should be coming from the top (as you look at it) hole in the block such that the fall is working over the sheave?  At your scale the work in your 'creation' is nice and clean.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

 Gary and Pat, thank you both for your advise and support as it's sorely needed at this point. Pat, it's just a test piece that I had randomly draped for the photo. 

 Thank you to all for the likes and to all those who've dropped by. 

 

 In one of the build logs I was going through yesterday, the builder had used the same PE eye pins I used to make the jackstay eyebolts, to make hooks. It's an interesting usage I want to play around with. 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Keith Black

[KeithAug]

Hi Keith - I loved catching up on the block / shackle debate. I recall looking at some very detailed work (through a microscope) in the gold room of the Hermitage Museum in St Peterburg. The very knowledgeable guide pointed out that the work was so fine it could only have been done by children because of the visual capability they posses. I think you need to get younger or recruit some grandchildren.

[BANYAN]

If you find a source let me know - I could certainly make use of some better eyes and 'shake-free' hands

cheers

Pat

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, BANYAN said:

If you find a source let me know - I could certainly make use of some better eyes and 'shake-free' hands

cheers

Pat

I think most of could use better eyes and "non-shaking" hands.  

[Keith Black]

 I bought this used display case today. It's lighted with a mirrored back and measures 46 x 26 x 13 inches ID, the Tennessee is 40 x 22 x 12 inches. It's not your traditional model ship display case but for $65.00 I couldn't pass it up. 

 

 Keith, Pat, and Mark, thank you and thank you to all for stopping by and the likes. 

 

 

 

[BANYAN]

Good find Keith - a perfect fit.  If you wanted to, you could remove the front door and panels and replace with a larger single pane/door recycling the existing wood?  It would look some of those older style display cases then.  BUT, that is even more work for you

 

cheers

 

Pat

[mtaylor]

16 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Good find Keith - a perfect fit.  If you wanted to, you could remove the front door and panels and replace with a larger single pane/door recycling the existing wood?  It would look some of those older style display cases then.  BUT, that is even more work for you

 

cheers

 

Pat

Unless the top or back comes off, that might very well be necessary, Pat. 

[Keith Black]

  If I tilted the Tennessee just right going in stern first and didn't sneeze I think I could get her through the door......not a good plan. I'll need to remove the mirrored back to place the Tennessee inside. The mirror is glued to quarter inch ply which laps and is stapled to the rear stiles and rails. Once I have the back off I'll need to rework the back and make it a sliding panel to make removal easier when the model needs to be removed at some point in the future. 

 

 Speaking of back, thank you Pat and Mark for having mine and thank you to all for stopping by and the likes. 

[mtaylor]

I note the "family critter" bed next to it in the photo.   I'll assume that you'll figure out a way to keep said critter out of the case when you have it open.  

[Keith Black]

4 hours ago, mtaylor said:

I note the "family critter" bed next to it in the photo.   I'll assume that you'll figure out a way to keep said critter out of the case when you have it open.  

 

 Good eyes MT, that's funny but actually the photo is the seller's photo she posted in Facebook Marketplace. Keeping Emma out during the move in will be an issue, she has been all over that case since Daddy brought it home......stupid cat.  

[mtaylor]

14 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

 Good eyes MT, that's funny but actually the photo is the seller's photo she posted in Facebook Marketplace. Keeping Emma out during the move in will be an issue, she has been all over that case since Daddy brought it home......stupid cat.  

She probably thinks it's her new bed.

[Keith Black]

 This rigging phase is going very slow, mainly because I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how many times I've gone through Peterson's book, how many rigging plans I've looked at and how many build logs I've visited. What progress I make is monkey see, monkey do. I can't quite find a rigging plan that gives me that "aha moment". Occasionally the light bulb flickers and then goes dark. So when I get frustrated with one task, I jump to another in hopes it won't be as frustrating. Well, no such luck so far but it'll all come together eventually, one way or another.   

 

 So I jumped into culling deadeyes. I bought 200 ea, 4 MM deadeyes and 80 ea, 3 MM deadeyes (they come in 40 each packs) I only got a 75% acceptance rate (144 total good ones) on the 4 MM deadeyes and 90% on the 3 MM. I don't know why there should be a lower fallout rate on the 3 MM vs the 4 MM? I need to cull the culls on the 4 MM as I need a total of 164. I need 48 of the 3 MM so I'm in good shape on those. 

 

 I'm also trying to get my head and fingers trained in stropping these little buggers. I'm using 28 GA annealed black wire, it's not coming naturally yet but I'm sure it will at some point, it better as I have 106 to do. And then when that fun task is done I need to lace the 106 pairs together. Third hand don't fail me now!

[BANYAN]

I know exactly where you are at Keith, I have the same issue with Victoria's rigging.  I have bitten the bullet and gone back to first principles (so to speak).  As you have found, there is no ready reference so I am trying to develop my rigging and belaying plan from several authors that cover the mid-nineteenth century.  I am at least lucky to have found a copy of her Rigging Warrant so what I have done is use the listed rigging and associated items (blocks, hooks, thimbles etc) and see which author best describes the rigging set-up using that combination of rigging gear.  I also allow for the fact that each Captain had their preferences and in this case, correspondence from the ship's build superintendent confirms that he allowed the Captain to rearrange some of the rigging to 'merchant' rather than naval practices, as he came from a merchant background.  He apparently changed some of the rigging associated with the yards.

 

Overall, I have found that the Rigging Warrant, supplemented with the imagery I have of the ship (quite accurate), suggests most of the rigging practices/set-up employed were in accordance with the descriptions given in 'Seamanship' by Lieutenant G.S. Nares, 1862; and for the more modern adaptions 'The Masting and Rigging of The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier' by Harold Underhill proves useful.  However there are some departures / differences not covered by these authors so I have also used (consulted and verified with) Robert Kipping, John Fincham, Young, James Lees, D'Arcy Lever, John Harland, Marquardt and William L Crothers.

 

I am now about 70% through having sorted the head sails, fore mast, and most of the mizen and auxiliary sails (stunsails, trysails etc).  The main mast I hope is mostly a copy of the foremast (minus the head sails) with just the belaying and some of the leads to be adapted.  Not sure how different yours would be as mine followed the British practices of the day for a steam-screw vessel - and as I have previously advised while conforming to a Barque rig in general principles, there were considerable differences to accommodate the additional fore-and-aft sails and modification required to work with steam (heat from the funnel especially).  Give me a bell if you think there would be some similarities.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited June 7, 2021 by BANYAN

[Keith Black]

On 6/5/2021 at 8:52 PM, BANYAN said:

Give me a bell if you think there would be some similarities.

 Thank you, Pat. If the fog hasn't lifted by the time I need to start the running rigging I'll sing out. The standing rigging is pretty much self explanatory. I'm not holding out high hopes on hitting the belaying plan dead on but as I'll not be adding sails I think there'll be room for forgiveness.  I'm certain that the "aha moment" will arrive, it just may take longer than what I had initially hoped for. 

 

 I just wanted to alert those that follow my efforts to the fact that progress will be slow going over the course of the next three to four months. 

 

 Thank you to all for stopping by........Keith

[BANYAN]

No problem Keith.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[FriedClams]

On 6/6/2021 at 9:24 PM, Keith Black said:

I just wanted to alert those that follow my efforts to the fact that progress will be slow going over the course of the next three to four months.

 

We are a patient bunch Keith.  Better to be happy with your work on the first attempt, because backtracking, re-dos and that "if I had to do over" feeling can be so deflating.  The "aha moment" will come.  Nice score on the display case.

 

Gary

[rwiederrich]

Hang in there Keith.   Along with experience comes confidence.  You'll piece it together.  The principles of standing and running rigging are generally universal.....so if you can grasp the simplistics of each group...you should be able to do well.

 

We'll be here....if you need a hug.

 

Rob

[Roger Pellett]

Keith,

 

Civil War era navies seem to have made wide use of this “Jackass” rig.  I don’t know what else to call it.  With that in mind, you might want to get ahold of the series of articles published in the Journal, I think in the ‘90s describing the research involved in building a model of USS Kearsarge.  You should be able to track them down on the Guild’s website.  While your ship is larger, the rigs appear to be similar.

 

Roger

 

 

[wefalck]

The problem is that the period in question has seen a dramatic evolution in rigging technology and practice. While things in principle became simpler, they have become more difficult to reproduce in (smaller) scale. For the standing rigging iron and then steel began to replace plant fibres as iron armatures began to replace good old rope stroppings on blocks and shackles replaced hooks or knots. Also in many places chains were used. This affected in particular also steam vessels, whose rigging and sail plans more and more deviated from the classical categories and layouts.

 

In consequence, I don't think 

 

PETERSSON, L. (2000): Rigging Period Ship Models. A Step-By-Step Guide to the Intricacies of the Square-Rig.- 128 p., Washington (US Naval Institute Press).

 

is going to be very helpful. I believe he focuses on the 18th and early 19th century. Better sources that show more modern practices would be:

 

BIDDLECOMBE, G. (1848): The Art of Rigging.- 155 p., Salem, Ma. (Reprint 1990 by Dover Publication, New York).

 

BRADY, W.W. (1852): The Kedge Anchor; or Young Sailor’s Assistant. Appertaining to the Practical Evolutions of Modern Seamanship, Rigging, Knotting, Splicing, Blocks, Purchases, Running-Rigging, and Other Miscellaneus Matters Applicable to Ships of War and Others.- 400 p., New York (Published by the Author).

 

BUSHELL, C. (various edtions from 1856 to 1893): The Rigger's Guide and Seaman’s Assistant Containing Practical Instructions for Completely Rigging Ships of War – Second Edition, with sixteen addtional pages on wire rigging.- 214 p., London (H. Lewis).

 

FINCHAM, J. (1854): A Treatise on Masting Ships & Mast Making.- 384 p., London.

 

KIPPING, R. (various edtions between 1853 and 1903): Rudimentary Treatise on Masting, Mast-Making, and Rigging of Ships.- 150 p., London (John Weale).

 

UNDERHILL, H.A. (1946): Masting & Rigging the Clipper Ship & Ocean Carrier.- 304 p., Glasgow (Brown, Son & Ferguson).

 

If I was allowed only one book, I would go for Underhill. Biddlecombe and Brady give more practical details, while the later works are more concerned with the layout of riggings. I am not aware of an English-language book that specifically covers the period 1870/1880 and naval ships, while there is for instance a very good one in German for the austro-hungarian Navy. 

 

A good book with lots of very illustrative drawings relevant for the early part of the period is also

 

BOWCOCK, A. (2002): CSS Alabama. Anatomy of a Confederate Raider.- 191 p., Rochester, Kent (Chatham Publishing).

[Keith Black]

On 6/10/2021 at 10:28 AM, FriedClams said:

We are a patient bunch Keith.  Better to be happy with your work on the first attempt, because backtracking, re-dos and that "if I had to do over" feeling can be so deflating.  The "aha moment" will come.  Nice score on the display case.

 

 Gary, that so much for your continued support.

 

16 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Hang in there Keith.   Along with experience comes confidence.  You'll piece it together.  The principles of standing and running rigging are generally universal.....so if you can grasp the simplistics of each group...you should be able to do well.

 

We'll be here....if you need a hug.

 

 

  Nothing to do with modeling but today went from promise to defeat. Rob, I could use a Bro hug right about now. Thank you for your continued support.

 

14 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Civil War era navies seem to have made wide use of this “Jackass” rig.  I don’t know what else to call it.  With that in mind, you might want to get ahold of the series of articles published in the Journal, I think in the ‘90s describing the research involved in building a model of USS Kearsarge.  You should be able to track them down on the Guild’s website.  While your ship is larger, the rigs appear to be similar.

 

 Roger, what an apt description, "jackass" rigging. The transition period put navies between wanting ships to be able to function with sails and yet not be dependent upon them. The transitional ships were primarily about learning to sail with steam, sails were a "we know this works" and "just in case".

 

 I purchased the Kearsarge build log in 2019. At the time I was looking for information unrelated to rigging. I have since reread the build log and it is equally uninformative about rigging as it was about whatever I was searching for at the time. I do have copies of Revell's rigging plans for both the Kearsarge and the Alabama along with many other ships. Roger, thank you for your continued support. 

 

14 hours ago, wefalck said:

The problem is that the period in question has seen a dramatic evolution in rigging technology and practice. While things in principle became simpler, they have become more difficult to reproduce in (smaller) scale. For the standing rigging iron and then steel began to replace plant fibres as iron armatures began to replace good old rope stroppings on blocks and shackles replaced hooks or knots. Also in many places chains were used. This affected in particular also steam vessels, whose rigging and sail plans more and more deviated from the classical categories and layouts.

 

In consequence, I don't think PETERSSON, L. (2000): Rigging Period Ship Models. A Step-By-Step Guide to the Intricacies of the Square-Rig.- 128 p., Washington (US Naval Institute Press). is going to be very helpful. I believe he focuses on the 18th and early 19th century. Better sources that show more modern practices would be:

  

 Eberhard, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to post #326. I agree regarding Peterson's book as it relates to the Tennessee. You have to understand, I know very little about rigging, Peterson's book gives me a history base of how rigging was done at that time. Through searching countless build logs, rigging plans, articles, and excerpts from Bushell and Underhill (I really should acquire copies of both their works)  I'm trying to envision the evolution of rigging from Peterson to steam and how it may apply to the Tennessee.

 

 There's a book wanting to be written regarding the rigging variations of that transitional period.

 

 Thank you to all for the likes and for stopping by.    

 

[Kevin]

just caught up Keith, what a lovely build you have going there, im sure there will be a accurate rigging plan somewhere, lol no doubt it will be found when its to late

Edited June 12, 2021 by Kevin

[wefalck]

4 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 There's a book wanting to be written regarding the rigging variations of that transitional period.

You are absolutely right, there is no modern book that summarises the developments from the middle of the 19th century to its end, particularly for naval vessels and those of mixed propulsion (Underhill and others cover most relevant aspects for the merchant navy sailing vessels). Some kind of continuation of Lee's book, but one needs to look at the various countries as well, as many innovations happend also e.g. in France. ... Perhaps a retirement project for me

 

[mtaylor]

8 hours ago, wefalck said:

You are absolutely right, there is no modern book that summarises the developments from the middle of the 19th century to its end, particularly for naval vessels and those of mixed propulsion (Underhill and others cover most relevant aspects for the merchant navy sailing vessels). Some kind of continuation of Lee's book, but one needs to look at the various countries as well, as many innovations happend also e.g. in France. ... Perhaps a retirement project for me

 

I suspect that would be a very large book given all the variants of the period   In the US during the period it seems that every yard and every captain had their own ideas on rigging