Louie da fly Posted April 29, 2022 Share #121 Posted April 29, 2022 The problem (as I'm sure Richard is fully aware) is that there were several values for the Ancient Greek "cubit", and the designers used the wrong one - which they only found out in practice. Had they used a larger value for the cubit the problem probably wouldn't have arisen, and in fact the literature on the Olympias suggests this as one of (many) issues to be taken into account if an Olympias II were ever to be built. I had originally intended to make a similar little man to test out the rowing set-up for my dromon but never worked out the problems involved in building it. Very impressed, Richard, that you've done so. Steven Richard Braithwaite, BANYAN, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted April 30, 2022 Author Share #122 Posted April 30, 2022 12 hours ago, Louie da fly said: The problem (as I'm sure Richard is fully aware) is that there were several values for the Ancient Greek "cubit", and the designers used the wrong one - which they only found out in practice. Had they used a larger value for the cubit the problem probably wouldn't have arisen, and in fact the literature on the Olympias suggests this as one of (many) issues to be taken into account if an Olympias II were ever to be built. I had originally intended to make a similar little man to test out the rowing set-up for my dromon but never worked out the problems involved in building it. Very impressed, Richard, that you've done so. Steven Just looked through your Dromon Thread. Great reconstruction. I see you carved individual oarsmen! I don't think I have the endurance to make 170 for my model! I am thinking of three of my manikins to demonstrate a single triad or oars. I suppose one could make a CAD model and 3D print them? Has anyone tried that? mtaylor, Ian_Grant and Keith Black 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted April 30, 2022 Share #123 Posted April 30, 2022 15 minutes ago, Richard Braithwaite said: I don't think I have the endurance to make 170 for my model! I can understand that. I only carved 48 oarsmen (plus 16 others - grand total of 64) but I got very tired of carving the oarsmen in particular. It's possible you could 3D print your figures - but I have no expertise at all in this field. Maybe others could help. You'd need separate figures for thranites, zygites and thalamians as they hold the oars differently. If you look at the Youtube video of Olympias' sea trials you see how they do that - but even on a given level, different oarsmen hold the oars differently - some forehand, others backhand. Very interesting. Steven Ian_Grant, mtaylor, Richard Braithwaite and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted May 1, 2022 Author Share #124 Posted May 1, 2022 Upping the tempo on the Thalmian beams, stretchers and seats. Here a Jig for installing the stretchers between the thalmian beams: The little wire clip is useful in holding the stretcher at the right height while the epoxy cures. Unfortunately this jig will only work on the starboard side. I think Ill have to completely rebuild for the port side. Would have preferred to come up with something a bit more ambidextrous (oh well...) For the seats themselves, I'm building them in strip fashion so they can be cut off one by one and finished before installation... popash42, GrandpaPhil, Keith Black and 7 others 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinkman Posted May 12, 2022 Share #125 Posted May 12, 2022 On 4/30/2022 at 1:49 PM, Richard Braithwaite said: [...]I suppose one could make a CAD model and 3D print them? Has anyone tried that? Very impressive build! And I love your wooden mannequin! Regarding 3D printing roars men one way would do something similar to what I did in my previous build. I built parts of the ship in CAD and imported it in a program called Poser. There one can manipulate the mannequin to any position you want so it interacts with the CAD of the ship and then export and 3D print just the human. These mannequins are naked, but perhaps the roars men didn't wear a lot of clothes anyway so that would save you some time mtaylor, GrandpaPhil, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted May 31, 2022 Share #126 Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) Just came across this video of a lecture by Boris Rankov - who was the rowing master on the Olympias - Edited May 31, 2022 by Louie da fly Richard Braithwaite, Keith Black, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted June 3, 2022 Share #127 Posted June 3, 2022 Thought you might like to see this - Olympias and the frigate Salamis - both ships of the Greek navy. Steven mtaylor, DARIVS ARCHITECTVS, bruce d and 7 others 8 2 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted July 12, 2022 Author Share #128 Posted July 12, 2022 On 5/12/2022 at 8:30 PM, silverman834 said: Very impressive build! And I love your wooden mannequin! Regarding 3D printing roars men one way would do something similar to what I did in my previous build. I built parts of the ship in CAD and imported it in a program called Poser. There one can manipulate the mannequin to any position you want so it interacts with the CAD of the ship and then export and 3D print just the human. These mannequins are naked, but perhaps the roars men didn't wear a lot of clothes anyway so that would save you some time Yes, I've tried some modelling of humans using a similar program that is freely downloadable (DAZ3D). I guess you could save in a file format readable by a 3D printer? mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share #129 Posted July 20, 2022 A Thalmian oarsman's view (looking aft) of the 21 seats Ive installed so far on the starboard side of the ship (149 to go...) BLACK VIKING, Keith Black, chris watton and 11 others 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted October 2, 2022 Author Share #130 Posted October 2, 2022 Completed the Thalmian seats on both sides: Ian_Grant, ScottRC, GrandpaPhil and 10 others 9 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted October 2, 2022 Author Share #131 Posted October 2, 2022 Disassembled the model today for the first time in a very long time, to check that I haven't done anything to stop me being able to get at the bolts and that the main hull outfit assembly (which includes deck beams, support pillars, inner hull longitudinals, gangway, and now thalmian seating...) is still removable. It takes me just over half an hour to assemble (there are 82 bolts to secure in total...) and I was quite pleased with how easily the main hull outfit assemble fitted into place with no flexing at all and all the bolts perfectly lined up with their holes. I'll have to do it again to fit the mast steps (I know, I could have done that before I put the deck in...) and I'm hoping it will make it easier to get at everything when I finally come to coating the wood with something. Keith Black, Siggi52, LeoM and 16 others 11 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted October 2, 2022 Share #132 Posted October 2, 2022 That's impressive work Richard. cheers Pat Keith Black, Richard Braithwaite, Ian_Grant and 1 other 4 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted October 3, 2022 Share #133 Posted October 3, 2022 Impressive is an understatement.....it's beyond the superlatives I know..... SighingDutchman, Keith Black, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted October 3, 2022 Share #134 Posted October 3, 2022 That's magnificent work! Steven Richard Braithwaite, Ian_Grant, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted October 3, 2022 Share #135 Posted October 3, 2022 Richard, is the plan still to install an oar drive mechanism? If so I look forward to it eagerly. Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny.D Posted October 7, 2022 Share #136 Posted October 7, 2022 Truly Master Craftsmanship Richard. I admire your work closely and the quality is, as Ian said, beyond superlatives. mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share #137 Posted October 17, 2022 On 10/3/2022 at 11:36 PM, Ian_Grant said: Richard, is the plan still to install an oar drive mechanism? If so I look forward to it eagerly. Yes that is still the plan. However, at the moment I am concentrating on completing the model with as little concession to that as possible. I want the mechanism to be fully removable so that the model can stand with or without. That is on of the main reasons I have made it fully capable of dismantling. Keith Black, BANYAN, Veszett Roka and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share #138 Posted November 21, 2022 Starting the installation of the second tier (Zygian) of oarsmen seats. Again, my Manikin is helping to confirm that the seat is in the right place for the downward angle and sweep of the oar and that there is no interference with the lower (Thalmian) oarsmen. The oar blades ae resting on a block of wood placed to give the right downward angle for complete immersion of the blade in the middle of the power stroke (at the design displacement). One the inboard distance of the seat is established I constructed the jig for installing the oarsmen stretchers at the same distance from the tholes which can be seen in the next bay forward of the manikins position. Part of this jig holds the new stretcher in place, perpendicular to the deck beams and the other part is a simple "ruler" that fits over the thole pin marked for the correct distance inboard. I will need to remark this for the shorter oars at the ends of the vessel... Ian_Grant, GrandpaPhil, Archi and 10 others 10 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted November 22, 2022 Share #139 Posted November 22, 2022 Love the time and effort you are putting into the oarsmen and their bench seats etc Richard; it will make for very realistic detail on the model. cheers Pat Richard Braithwaite, Glen McGuire, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted November 23, 2022 Share #140 Posted November 23, 2022 Agreed. I wasn't able to do this on my dromon as the scale was too small (1:50), but I would have loved to. Kudos for taking it to this level to get the proportions and angles correct. Steven Keith Black, Ian_Grant, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share #141 Posted November 23, 2022 21 hours ago, Louie da fly said: Agreed. I wasn't able to do this on my dromon as the scale was too small (1:50), but I would have loved to. Kudos for taking it to this level to get the proportions and angles correct. Steven Yes, I am finding that 1:24 is about as small a scale as I can manage. The main reason for the full scale reconstruction was to demonstrate that it was possible to arrange 170 oarsmen, each with their own oar, in a ship 37m long... So I wanted to be able to show that this could work on the model... The clearances between the oar blades, and hence the geometric tolerances for building many critical areas of the ship, are necessarily very tight to achieve this even at full scale let alone on a model... KentM, Ian_Grant, Glen McGuire and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share #142 Posted December 1, 2022 The middle tier of oar seats are much more straightforward to install than the lower tier as they are not raked relative to the vessels centerline. This means I can align them easily with a straight edge. Here are 3 going in in one gluing operation: Glen McGuire, KentM, B-Ram and 8 others 9 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share #143 Posted December 14, 2022 Completed port side Zygian seats: Keith Black, woodrat, GrandpaPhil and 11 others 12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted December 18, 2022 Share #144 Posted December 18, 2022 Beautiful work, Richard. I'm loving following this. Steven mtaylor, Richard Braithwaite, Keith Black and 3 others 6 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler FINISHED Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36379-mistydeefer-by-louie-da-fly-finished-restoration-decor-yacht/#comment-1040663 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted January 18, 2023 Author Share #145 Posted January 18, 2023 My triad of oarsmen completed. From right to left: Thalmian, Zygian and Thranite oarsmen holding their appropriate oars. The oars shown are based on the original oars for Olympias which were used for most of the sea trials. The blades are designed with a different shape to account for the differing vertical angle of immersion for the three different levels. A lighter version of the oar was later trialed (where all three levels used the same design). Archi, BANYAN, mtaylor and 10 others 8 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny.D Posted January 20, 2023 Share #146 Posted January 20, 2023 Absolutely beautiful work with the figures and oars. Now only 167 more to go! mtaylor, Richard Braithwaite, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share #147 Posted February 8, 2023 For some reason its taken me a long time to work out how to install and jig the upper seats... The jig ive ended up with at this stage is shown below together with a seat assembly (seat+ foot stretcher + support pillar). The jig consists of two parts. The main part is intended to hold the seat level athwartships and at the 9 degrees rake to the centerline with a removable section that can be unbolted so that the jig can be removed after fixing the seat in place. Here is the jig in place in the model: And, finally with the seat assembly in place: The seat is assembly is fixed to the seat forward of it by its foot stretcher (held in place by the steel clip while the glue dries) and to the beam underneath by its support pillar. The intention is that all the seats form part of the removable part of the model and so this seat assembly can not be glued to the sheer capping... The lathe cutting tool is functioning as a weight to hold the seat down in the jig while the glue dries... GrandpaPhil, Keith Black, Louie da fly and 5 others 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANYAN Posted February 9, 2023 Share #148 Posted February 9, 2023 A very clever solution Richard; looks good. cheers Pat Glen McGuire, Keith Black, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share #149 Posted February 9, 2023 First check on the ergonomics with my trusty triad of marines: Still to fit their footrests... Johnny.D, Siggi52, B-Ram and 10 others 8 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Braithwaite Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share #150 Posted February 27, 2023 Problem with ships having a port and starboard sides is that I need to make two jigs... One benefit is that I can now work on both sides at once, which is speeding up production a bit (from my usual snails pace...) Ian_Grant, Glen McGuire, Prowler901 and 9 others 9 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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