Wulfe Hound - captured B 17 - 1:72 scale by Popeye the Sailor - finished

[popeye the sailor]

thanks Ken....I hope there's still a little fading...I haven't had a chance to look closer.  I have never see Pactra sold in that size of bottle......always saw it in the "Testor's" size bottles {.25 fl oz}.  in my younger days,  I used it often.........good selection of colors.  now a days,  you hardly see it.........same with Humbrol.

 

I have one more day of work............but we have a line of nasty weather coming.  we just had two days of temps over 50 degrees........it's gone downhill since  

[Canute]

I remember using a couple of that size bottles, painting a Monogram P-47 and a Revell B-25 Tokyo Raider. I think we had a real hobby shop with those size bottles. Usually we had the little Testor's bottles.

[lmagna]

I think I recognize that bottle of paint! There is a chance that it is older than Denis! That was back in the day where you could AFFORD to buy a larger bottle of model paint. Glad you were able to make it work. Like you I thought the blotchy look was a plus. Too bad it didn't stay, stuff like that is much harder to create on purpose.

Edited January 14, 2020 by lmagna

[Old Collingwood]

I agree with the family  - the fade does look good  and  realistic  - try doing that again delibrately.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

thanks everyone    I still remember the hobby shop that used to be Manchester,  when I was a lad.........the 606.   it was a huge shop......dealt with everything hobby...trains,  boats,  planes....cars.  you name it.  now  we're down to a couple small shops....craft stores make up the balance of the supply train.  I wish I could say that I was that crafty.......but the blotches are gone.

as mentioned,  I have a lighter shade for the ailerons,  so I need to do them over again.  this paint came out totally dead from any sort of sheen {even flats can have a dull sheen to them}.  I think wiping them down and over spraying them with a second coat might do the trick.  the pains is also rough,  which is why I will wipe them down......it's a bit grainy.  this comes from being in that evaporated state for so long.  so much thinner was added to make it viable,  that it expanded and lifted the masking tape after it dried.  this concerns me,  since I want to do that thing with the call letter 'B'.......I shudder to think what it will do to the decal.  kinda sad really......this color looks really good.  I was going to give it a shot of dull coat afterwards......now I wonder about that too.  the decals are nice........would have been better if a few other markings were included.  I have the other sheet, so I can add some.  as for the white masking tape......I really don't need to add it,  since the plane was marked like that for a short time....only for training purposes.

you might notice that they included some extra insignia letters........they weren't sure if there were any on the upper surfaces of the wings.  all of the pictures I've seen,  I haven't noticed any,  so I won't need them.  they added the prop decals,  but I won't need them either,  since the only thing I saw about the props were the white striping  a few added markings other than the black strip walkways:

here is a preliminary peek at my first stab....making a stand for her...

I may stick with this one,  but I have another design I want to try.  I inserted a brass rod to strengthen the base/shaft connection.  if I use the hole where the belly turret was located,  that will put the balance off because the model will be too far forward.  looking at the location on the Nine o Nine,  the slot for that stand is just aft of the bomb bay doors.  so,  if I want to go with that positioning,  I will need to install what I'll call the rod root....subsequently drilling the access hole for it before the fuselage is put together.   either hole I choose,  I will be adding the rod root.  the root will act as a guide for the rod that will be added to the base.  if I don't,  the plane is liable to tilt and do strange thing when placed  on the stand.  the Nine O Nine stand utilizes a button root,  cemented into the bottom of the fuselage.  I may also concave the mating surface of the shaft,  so the fuselage will rest in it firmly.

more to be done today   

[lmagna]

I hope you are able to make that color work Denis. It looks quite good, at least on my computer. I think I bought it years ago, (Many years ago) to paint the model I made of an M-113 and if I remember correctly it looked just as flat then as it does now even though I brush painted it back then.

 

 

 

i .

Edited January 15, 2020 by lmagna

[popeye the sailor]

the weather played in my favor yesterday.........I think it will be good for today too {hurray}.  for the underbelly,  I picked out a Humbrol color.  when I got all those paints from Lou,  I looked up a color chart for the Humbrol paints.......came up with a gloss and matte chart.   I picked out Humbrol matte #24,  which is Trainer Yellow according to the chart.  as I though further,  I began to think it was too much of a mustard color,  so I almost chose another color........but I stuck with it.  as mentioned,  the Olive is really good,  although it looks a bit grainy on the parts.  I think adding colors relating to the fading might smooth things out......I though about rubbing down the parts lightly,  but I am concerned about scratching.  I may not do it.  when I did the olive color,  the parts that I had painted flat white {primer} was too close to where I was working,  and they got some over spray.....I though I might need to repaint them.  at this time,  I sprayed the trainer yellow,  crossing my fingers that this wouldn't be an issue.  to my relief,  it wasn't     I am not at all disappointed with the color either.  opening the tin,  I found that this was new.........it had never been opened!  took a bit to mix it........made a bit of a mess transferring it to a Testor's bottle.  I wish I could get hold of some 1/2 oz bottles.......shame that the airbrush I'm using depends on the 1/4 oz bottle.   the caps fit on them alone.......I might look into that other siphon feed that I have.

they are still a bit wet.  I misjudged the lines on the fuselage halves and did some adjustments with the 'yellow line'

light seemed to hinder the true color shown.......I used very little thinner in the yellow.  this morning I took this picture to show the true color....I hope....

[lmagna]

I must admit, that yellow is quite striking Denis. I think there is little chance you will get this B-17 confused with any other build you may have in mind!

[Kevin]

lol i dont quite know how i keep missing the start of your projects, hopefully that will change soon, as i will get to stalk everyone more regularly  

[mtaylor]

Denis,

Try (test first!!!!) using toothpaste for rubbing out paint.   Way back in the dark ages, many of used it on our models.   Hopefully they still make toothpaste with some grit to it.

[lmagna]

These are RDA values for common toothpaste: 0-70= low abrasive, 70-100= medium abrasive, 100-150= highly abrasive, 150-250= regarded as harmful limit.

RDA Values	Toothpaste Brand and Variety	Source
0	non-alcoholic mouthrinse (Biotene PBF(*Green Label), Act II Anticavity, Crest Pro-Health Complete, Oasis, Listerine Zero, Peridex, Peroxyl and water)	Church & Dwight
7	straight baking soda (The Arm & Hammer Yellow Box)
8	Arm & Hammer Tooth Powder	Church & Dwight
23	Biotene PBF Drymouth Toothpaste
25	Pronamel
30	KID’S TOOTH GEL STRAWBERRY-RASPBERRY (ph value: 7.0-7.5)	Lavera
30	Elmex Sensitive Plus	Elmex
42	Arm & Hammer Peroxicare Tartar Control	Church & Dwight
42	Arm & Hammer Advance White Baking Soda Peroxide	Church & Dwight
42	Arm & Hammer Peroxicare Regular	Church & Dwight
45	Oxyfresh
44-53	Squigle Enamel Saver
49	Arm & Hammer Peroxicare Tartar Control	Church & Dwight
49	Tom’s of Maine Sensitive (given as 40’s)	Tom’s
53	Rembrandt Original (RDA)	Rembrandt
53	CloSYS
57	Tom’s of Maine Children’s, Wintermint (given as mid-50’s)	Tom’s
60	Boiron Homeodent Natural Toothpaste-Lemon Flavor
62	Supersmile	Supersmile
62	Clinpro 5000 Fluoride Toothpaste
63	Rembrandt Mint (‘Heffernan RDA’)	Rembrandt
63	Biotene Regular
68	Colgate Regular	Colgate-Palmolive
70	Colgate Total	Colgate-Palmolive
70	Arm & Hammer Advance White Sensitive	Church & Dwight
70	Colgate 2-in-1 Fresh Mint (given as 50-70)	Colgate-Palmolive
70-76	Squigle Tooth Builder
79	Sensodyne	Colgate-Palmolive
80	AIM	Unilever
80	Close-Up	Unilever
83	Colgate Sensitive Maximum Strength	Colgate-Palmolive
85	Biotene Sensitive
91	Aquafresh Sensitive	Colgate-Palmolive
93	Tom’s of Maine Regular (given as high 80’s low 90’s)	Squigle (Tom’s)
94	Rembrandt Plus	Rembrandt
94	Plus White	Indiana Study
95	Kid’s Crest
95	Crest Regular (possibly 99)	P&G (P&G)
101	Natural White	Indiana Study
103	Mentadent	Squigle
104	Sensodyne Extra Whitening	Colgate-Palmolive
104	Sensodyne Repair and Protect with Novamin (Purchased on Amazon.com)	GSK Pharmaceuticals
106	Colgate Platinum	Indiana Study
106	Arm & Hammer Advance White Paste	Church & Dwight
107	Crest Sensitivity Protection	Colgate-Palmolive
110	Colgate Herbal	Colgate-Palmolive
110	Amway Glister (given as upper boundary)	Patent US06174515
112	Prevident 5000 Booster
113	Aquafresh Whitening	Indiana Study
117	Arm & Hammer Advance White Gel	Church & Dwight
120	Close-Up with Baking Soda (canadian)	Unilever
124	Colgate Whitening	Indiana Study
130	Crest Extra Whitening with Scope	Indiana Study
130	Crest Pro-Health with Scope (Crest for Me)	Burt’s Bees, Inc.
133	Ultra brite (or 120-140)	Colgate-Palmolive
144	Crest MultiCare Whitening	P&G
145	Ultra brite Advanced Whitening Formula	P&G
150	Pepsodent (given as upper bound)	Unilever
165	Colgate Tartar Control (given as 155-165)	Colgate-Palmolive
189	Crest Pro-Health	P&G
200	Colgate 2-in-1 Tartar Control/Whitening or Icy Blast/Whitening (given as 190-200)	Colgate-Palmolive
200	recommended limit	FDA
250	recommended limit	ADA

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the list, Lou.  You find some amazing things, sir.  I couldn't find a list like that if my life depended on it.

[lmagna]

Actually I found the list last year for a problem OC was having. Finding it today in the place I had stored it on my computer was MUCH harder! I have a tendency to hoard information like I do models, and sometimes my file system can use a little cleaning up.

[Old Collingwood]

29 minutes ago, lmagna said:

Actually I found the list last year for a problem OC was having. Finding it today in the place I had stored it on my computer was MUCH harder! I have a tendency to hoard information like I do models, and sometimes my file system can use a little cleaning up.

And I appreciated Lou   helped me No end.👍

 

OC.

[thibaultron]

Well, if you do use toothpaste, your model will, at least, be Minty Fresh!

[popeye the sailor]

yea........I must have a book mark list that's over three feet long    I've not tried toothpaste though........simple light rubbing with a soft cloth usually does the trick for me {my hulls love me for it}.  in my younger days,  I enjoyed listening to stories the residents had about their normal lives.......I worked at a nursing home while in school.   there were fewer brands to choose from and most of the things they bought,  were drawn from bulk barrels and made fresh {pre invention of the refrigerator}.  your list Lou is a sterling example of having too many brands to choose from.   my teen years were the 70's mostly.......even back then,  life was simpler.  but we won't go into all that.............I'm not a confirmed 'tree hugger' or anything......but one can't help but think of the implications.  this knowledge makes one think   

 

by now,  the yellow paint has had ample time to cure.  it will need to undergo another round of masking.  I've run into a slight problem concerning 'mixing bottles'.......I'm running out of them.   usually,  I'll buy the 1/4 oz bottles of thinner,  along with the 3/4 oz bottles and airbrush tins {larger size}........empty out the 1/4 oz and I have the bottles I need.  I can buy them empty and ready to use,  but I think it's more economical this way.  I'm going to look into Amazon and the like,  to see if I can acquire the 1/4 & 1/2 size bottles.  been meaning to do it....but now I'm finding myself backed into a corner  

[popeye the sailor]

could be another chigger in the armor........I do believe the olive drab is  ka-put..........wouldn't mix when shaken,  and when stirred looked very chunky and crumbly.   let ya know more soon.

[Canute]

Take a look at this guy's site. Maybe not the exact bottles you need, but quality bottles and vials. Chem lab grade plastics: https://modelpaintsol.com/

[Javlin]

So why not spray the plane with future to the correct sheen of the decals so it's all even when the  decal is applied on the plane then they look painted on.Once that is all  dry hit it with more coat of future to seal the work and it further flows the decals into looking like they were painted on.I then hit with MM flat or semi-gloss(Japanese).I like that yellow!! Kevin

Edited January 26, 2020 by Javlin

[popeye the sailor]

wow Ken........that site is worth book marking!  for anyone who is looking for paint tutorials,  they have some here as well    sadly though.......the bottles aren't what I'm looking for.  I don't use pipettes  and stuff........I'm old school.  I don't use future either....tried it,  but for whatever reason,  wasn't happy with the results.

 

thinking further on the paint.......as I mentioned,  the olive drab is no good.  letting it set after mixing in all that thinner,  was the swan song........the suspension in the paint was totally broken down,  and allowed to harden.  I am not without a solution though............................I have a couple of white ensign paints  light olive drab,  olive drab,  and light bronze green.  I also have a couple of Humbrol paint too...interior green,  khaki drab,  and US light green.  I started this morning,  by trying to fix the olive and yellow line.  it worked out nice......but I saw something more.   the mottling of the paint on the Wulf Hound has been a question to me........how can I achieve that?.

   well......I just did    the olive I began using looks a little bit darker than the olive I used........using a brush to repair the line....I then went over the rest of the fuselage.

this turned into a paint fest.......started to paint other aspects of the plane.

the nacelle cowls had flash around the rims...took some time to clean them up.   I also did the props too,  cleaning around all the tips.

I assembled the tires,  cleaning up the seams after they had set a bit.    Mark had sent me a couple of machine guns that he couldn't use.......I though they looked a bit small for 1:72 .  here they are along side the machine guns for the Wulfe Hound.

 

seeing what the white ensign did to the fuselage,  I decided to use it on the wings too.  to use a brush though wouldn't do the trick........the streaking would be narrow and it needs to affect the entire wing.   rubbing somehow entered the picture,  and it became the ideal solution.  I first went over them with the olive drab............and without changing the cloth,  went over them with flat bomber tan.  this mottled the wings fairly well.

    I rubbed over the fuselage a little....I think I might do more.

I did the ailerons rudder halves and flaps in the light bomber tan     

I did notice while all this was going on,  that the waist gunner positions,  are just glassed over and no guns are present.   I may use the machine guns that Mark sent me.........I will need to make a bracket to mount them on.   more on this bird in a bit                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[Old Collingwood]

Looking  good denis.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

thanks OC........thanks to all for the likes     I've gone a tiny bit further.......the markings on the rudder fin that were defaced.  for the 'B' I'll be using a decal.......and for the pennant marking {which for most was a triangle,  but for some reason appears as a diamond on the Wulfe Hound},  I'll just do some paint.  I put the decals in place first.

taking some parchment paper,  a strip of tape was laid on it and a diamond was cut out.  it was laid in place on the rudder fin,  and with some dark German gray,  I tried to dry brush it on....came out a tad too dark though.

the call letters were still left on the fin...a couple of the numbers were a bit faded.  luckily,  they are supplied on the decal sheet and two of the numbers are faded.  I'll be adding them on after I attempt to blot out the code letter

here are a couple of pictures from the book...

earlier I mentioned that these planes were also equipped with an inflatable dingy,  in the event that they landed in a watery situation........here's where the compartment was located on the fuselage

I made this one so you may be able to read the caption......

at one point,  the Germans were known to have as many as 20 B 17's in the KG 200.  a few were not air worthy and used as parts.....such as the fate of Pickle Dropper

[Canute]

The OD is looking better, Denis. I think the WEM paint is some of the better stuff around. Good digging with your research.

[popeye the sailor]

thanks Ken.......I owe it to this book.   the original author Geoffrey J. Thomas,  passed away towards the tail end of the research.  Barry Ketley picked up where he left off and had it published.  there is also quite a bit of info about Adolf Hitler,  so this book would also be a good source of info for any history buffs out there.   it does make it harder to discern color with the bulk of the pictures I've seen in black n white,  but I've seen enough faded finishes { cars and such},  that it isn't hard to imagine.    I think that's what drew me to the plane......all of the exterior detail.   thankfully,  it will make up for the lack of interior detail....because this kit doesn't have it.  so I will try to add as much of the exterior detail I can into the model.  when I get more into the Memphis bell kit.......you will see the difference  

[popeye the sailor]

I have more progress to report on the Wulfe Hound.   I did a little paint and some assembly.....mainly the wings.   first was to assemble the aileron halves together for the wings and stabilizer.  no sense keeping them apart any longer. 

then to paint the deice panels......on the top halves,  I think I used the wrong paint.........or the black had not cured enough and became solvent.  in any case,  I need to fix it.   the nacelle cowls were a bit pesky too...I tried to do the two color paint,  and apparently,  the white ensign paint would rather be airbrushed....came out a bit ghostly.

the bottom halves came out alright,  but some bleed did occur.  thinner did help in removing most of the problem.  I also added the landing gear,  which will be in the down position,  as if it's taking off {flaps up}

don't know what those two slots are between the nacelles...nothing seems to go there..  there more to be painted yet.  I did this yesterday.....today, I decided to assemble the wings.  the ailerons were cemented in place.....I won't have them movable.  on the Nine o Nine,  they keep dropping like the plane's gonna nose dive....not very appealing  

first one done......

the ailerons have that faded coloration........you can see what I mean about the cowls.  the second one,  shown on the belly side,  shows the flap in the up position.  in the down position,  they would put drag on the wings, slowing the plane down for a landing.

other than the cowl ghosting,  I like how they came out.  as mentioned.....still more to be done on the wings.  I'm dying to decal them  

[mtaylor]

Er... issue.   The flaps would be down or extended for take offs and landings.   Needed for additional lift when the air speed drops below a certain level.   But, on the ground, the flaps would have been retracted when parked or taxiing.

 

Lovely work, Denis.  I'm liking what your doing.

[popeye the sailor]

I was under the impression that they were used as a form of braking ie.....air brake,  dive brake.   in the model of the Memphis Belle,  there is more detail to them....brackets and such.  there is nothing for this model however, although there is molded detail.   they are cemented in the retracted position.....can't do much about it now.

[lmagna]

Some planes have what you are thinking of Denis. They are very noticeable on aircraft like the SBD Dauntlas and Helldiver and look much like the landing flaps of conventional aircraft. Aircraft like the JU-87 Stuka also had divebreaks but they were not so obvious. Some planes like the P-38J and the F-86 had brakes in locations where one would not even look for them. 

 

At any rate the air breaks as a rule deploy in a manner that interrupts airflow without normally affecting lift from the wing. This was normally used to slow the natural dive rate of the aircraft so that it did not exceed the abilities of the aircraft or in some cases the pilot.

 

Flaps on the other hand are usually deployed from the trailing edge of the inboard portion of the wing and only in a downward angle that increases the airfoil or curved shape of the wing and therefore increasing the wings ability to lift at slower speeds even though they also do create some extra drag as well. Their primary use is to assist lift, allowing slower speeds, heavier loads, shorter runways, and more stability when taking off, landing or any overly slow operation. An example is the C-130 when they are dropping a skid load using a drogue chute. They make a slow pass using flaps as very low altitude, and at the right time deploy the cargo with a drogue chute and climb out again without landing.

 

No problem with having the flaps glued on your build as you said you are going to display it as on the ground. The flaps on the B-17 were brought back into alignment with the wing after they landed. On some planes the flaps will sag back down when they have been sitting parked. I do not believe this is the case with the B-17.

 

I think I really like the color combination on this plane. It is turning out nicely.

Edited February 7, 2020 by lmagna

[Old Collingwood]

Just to affirm what lou has said about the flaps at stand still - I found this on the net -

 

OC.

[Canute]

Lou is correct on the flaps. They are lift devices and allow the a/c to fly slower.

 

We had speedbrakes on the F-4, under the wings. They drooped on the ground with no hydraulic pressure. The F-15 has a speedbrake on top of the fuselage.