Clotilda by popeye the sailor - Steingraeber - 1:60 scale - slave ship - modified Agilis kit

[popeye the sailor]

thanks OC and J ....and those who hit the like button     I dunno OC........I've never really done that.  most of the parts I cut with the scroll saw will never be seen anyway.  I know I'm dealing with old wood,  but the outer layer shouldn't come off like it has.  not only that,  tape tends to gum up the blade  

 

J.....I basically split the bulkhead down the middle,  but then take into account of the keel.  it just took some fitting.   when I fare the frame,  it will be sanded down to the contour of the hull,  so the planking will meet the transom part without bulging.  sanding is going to be tough......fresh plywood never sands quick.  kits use a different type of plywood billet....some even use MDF.......it sands easy and quick with hardly any elbow grease  

filler blocks.......I hardly ever use them.  the frames are relatively close together.....it shouldn't be too much of a problem   icky Mae.....

[popeye the sailor]

now that I have the magazine with the article I read,  I promised I'd post the pictures.   it's of the Clotilda,  but I think this model can be outfitted like this and not be wrong.   I rather like the layout.

when the Clotilda entered and docked in a cove near three mile Island,  the slaves were off loaded onto a river boat,  which took them inland to a holding facility to be sold and divvied up later.  the Clotilda was then sailed to a more secluded spot and set afire,  to get rid of the evidence.

they were relieved of their clothes as you can see,  and shackled to the deck.   after the war and they were free,  they went on to settle in the place that they toiled.   they called it Africatown.

[jct]

Interesting...you could rig her this way...do you know if they were pole or stepped masts?

[popeye the sailor]

I would say stepped.  the Clotilda was a schooner,  so looking up a rigging diagram should reveal the rest.   the model is set up like a brig.......since the kits supplies tops and adequate yards to outfit her as such.  unless you looked up one of the ships named in the Wiki,  you could find out how other ships were rigged.   2 section masts,  fore and main........if desired,  one square sheet can be added to the fore mast,  I'd go no more.

[jct]

Seems to be a lot of options available from what I've seen, so are you gonna copper the bottom?  I gonna do white stuff, still haven't recovered from coppering the Harriet Lane 

[popeye the sailor]

I dunno........I have plenty of copper paint.  I'll see how the hull comes out first......I'm correcting a few things,  like the hump at the #3 bulkhead {yea......it bugged me}.  just don't forget the patina...I don't think this boat's been in dry dock too often  

[jct]

Understood, actually the only areas that would patina are those exposed to the air, right at the waterline, most likely the rest would stay a deep copper color...think old penny.

[popeye the sailor]

at the moment,  I'm faring the frame.......i'm finding some serious flaws.   even with finding and following the centers,  the shape of the bulkheads are very off.   with bulkheads #6 & #7,  they line up on the port side,  but on the starboard side,  they stick out like a sore thumb.  I need to sand down the contour quite a bit......that's going to seriously cut down the depth of the posts and reduce them to twigs.   the space in the deck platform showed me how much will need to be removed....looks to be about 1/8 of an inch.  I cut a couple of pieces and fitted them in to thicken the depth....they fit in the spaces.

you can see I already did it........taking down the offending overage,  that would have resulted in a monstrous bulge if I didn't.  the bow bulkheads are splayed out too much as well.  I know that some sanding is required,  thus the need for faring the hull frame......but it's pretty dramatic.  it's like they designed the frames,  to give the bow bulwarks a dual roll...protection of the deck from waves,  and to act as a breakwater.  I won't do much about it,  except cut down on the amount of splay that they have.  there is also another problem here,  but I'll get to that in a moment.......let's look at the stern.   Ideally,  I see this frame as unfinished...it's missing a few things.  I added those other two bulwark posts / bulkheads......this cuts down on the big gap between #9 & #10.  but where are the transom posts that are going to terminate the planking at the stern,  with regards to the bulwarks?  the #10 bulkhead only fits under the deck platform,  and does nothing else.  taking the #10 bulkhead and tracing it out,  I laid the #9 bulkhead over the tracing and drew in the bulwark posts.  cutting it out,  it looks like this:

after some sanding and fitting,  assembled over the #10 bulkhead,  the problem is solved.  the only thing it changes,  is that I won't be going with a curved transom.  it fits neatly under what overhangs back here and can be cleaned up with deck planking.  you can see that my faring the hull frame has somewhat rounded off the corners of the deck platform.  the hole for the rudder / tiller will be planked over to pave the way for a ship's wheel and wheel box....can't think of the name for it.   I'm half the mind to scratch a galley cabin and poop deck........knowing that it would dramatically change the specs of the boat.....aaawwwwww,  it keeps me from doing it {kick'in the can}.

it still has that slight angle that I gave it....at least      the bow is missing something too........how does the planking initiate here?   with the splay as much as it is,  there will be a gap on both side of the bow deck.  I can fix it with deck planking,  but what of the stem........how would the bow spirit fit?   

you can see how I removed some of the post splay......even broke one in the process.   there will be a fore castle deck.......instead of a capstan,  I am going to use a windlass.  I do wonder about the two anchors....since I'm emulating the brig you see on the box,  this size vessel would probably do well with just one anchor.  if anyone has some knowledge of this,  please help me out here     not sure of the proper name for this part either, I scratched up this little fork like thingie..........I still need to drill the hole for the bow spirit........I left the door open for alternate placement of the bow spirit boom.

we'll see how all this will benefit,  when I get to planking her.   I should have more by this afternoon for ya'll  

[jct]

You may still be able to sand a curve into your transom, just add some timber in front to make up the difference.

 

i had planed just to add additional timber heads to the bow and stern at the deck level, not sure how it will work but that’s the plan.

 

are we having fun yet

Edited February 19, 2020 by jct

[popeye the sailor]

that #3 bulkhead........it has the same problem as #6 & #7.  the good thing about it though is that I can break the bond at the deck platform and shift it over.   when I do fi get to begin planking,  I'll be using 1.8 X 5 X 880 mm planking

they come in packs of ten.....I buy it this way for good reason     given the length of this hull,  I can cut them in two and double the amount of planking.   should the hull frame be longer,  I can still do full strakes when I need to.  for this frame though...half is perfect.......it's almost the exact length {a little extra}.  I should have little waste.  this pack has 17 full strips and a few oddballs from a past planking job.

I should have enough........but if not,  I have a fair size bundle of 1.8 X 5 X 550 mm planking.

I have plenty of thin strip in various shades of annegre,  when I begin the deck planking.....but that's later.  ok........breaks over..........back to faring.......pfffffffffffffff!

[popeye the sailor]

hi there J..........man,  I hope we are!  how is your faring going?

[jct]

Haven't started yet as I'm waiting for the planking, least that's my excuse...may well get into it later today...no sense delaying the inevitable 

[popeye the sailor]

the faring process is pretty much done now......now the planking can begin.   starting with the bulwarks,  the top strakes were cemented in place.  I need to adjust the stern post on the starboard side though,  since it's off line at the stern.  as I'm fixing that,  I continued with the port side.   so far.....so good.

you can just make out the starboard side problem at the stern

...and like most models,  they design a bulkhead in the middle of the hold opening.   oh well.....closed it is   

[jct]

1 hour ago, popeye the sailor said:

they design a bulkhead in the middle of the hold opening.

Wonder why that is...would be easy enough to cut a notch in it, I'm assuming since you mentioned a foredeck you are reproducing the Clotilda...your way ahead now, I won't get the timberheads cut off till tomorrow

Edited February 20, 2020 by jct

[popeye the sailor]

it wasn't easy........that plywood was hard to sand.  I wonder where to get sheet plywood like they use to make kits.......the plywood seems to sand so much better.  the bulwarks are just about covered now.......there about 1/16 gap at the deck platform.  if I had thought ahead with that stern bulkhead I made,  I wouldn't have cut the deck area out of it..........but with the curvature at the transom,  it worked out.  before I go too far with the planking though,  I want to make the mast pots.........just boxes for when the masts are fitted in place.  it will take a lot of guesswork out of that particular step.

 

it funny you say that.........there are kits that make provision for the holds,  some even supply parts for a lower deck.   since the Clotilda is a schooner,  it makes for a likely choice.  I haven't done much digging to see if any of the other listed ships have any info or history.   I guess if we had the same foresight,  we could have done it     I took care of the starboard side problem I mentioned.  the cap rail will cover a lot if sin 

[CDW]

Hi Denis

 

Just found your build log for the Agilis. Wanted to follow along to learn a thing or three. There are more than a few wooden ship models in my stash, but it's outside the sphere of my comfort zone. I'm a neophyte wood ship modeler. Maybe following some guys who are experts such as you and JCT will give me the confidence boost I need to start one of my own.

[jct]

Hey CD how you been...good to see you here again...Hi Denis, When I stocked up for the Hannah I ordered 3 mm ply from Amazon it was wonderful stuff to work with, if memory serves it wasn't that expensive either.  I stuck some balsa blocks down it the hold space to hold the masts...may beef them up before closing the hull.  Planking the deck now, I'll post pics in my log...probably tomorrow.

 

I thinking I'm just gonna do a noname generic clipper...this is gonna be a gift for a friend and they won't care if there is any historical background or not

[popeye the sailor]

welcome to the log Craig,  I'm sure that if you were to start one,  I'm sure you'd do a superb job     I'm not an expert.........when I got my first wood project,  jee........once I started to work on it,  I couldn't stop!  I made mistakes too.......but joining this site,  I've learned so much.   there are many talented folks here.   just browse around......   you'll see many different techniques and styles.  the only thing I could suggest,  is pull one out and start a log........you'll be surprised with how many folks who are willing to help and share their knowledge.  I'd be in the front row  

 

I'll have to check it out J.........where I do a lot of recreating hulls and stuff.....it would be a big plus.  it seems that this model can go many ways......brigg,  schooner,   Baltimore Clipper,  Ketch.........with a bit of modification,  it's a wide open field    still......a bit down that your having to do all that B.S.   I hope it works in your favor.  I haven't done any more planking on mine........I devoted the time to the Wulfe Hound,  but I took Tuesday off and I'm hoping to get the planking done.  I want to see what the deck area looks like first.   I know that there will be gaps at the bow.....a fore castle deck will cover the sin.

[jct]

Could not agree with Popeye more Craig, jump on in, start a log, join the fun

[jct]

Hey D...got my copy of Chappelle’s Search For Speed Under Sail   and was just leafing thorough and came across the attached, the lines look really similar and she carries a horizontal bow sprit 

[popeye the sailor]

nice.........you got that book.....and I got the other      I have that one coming too.   really nice pictures    I'll get it by Friday.  yes...interesting about the bow spirit........I was thinking of giving it a bit of an angle too.  I guess I can toss that idea      the bow stem has a slight angle to it........I'll leave it at that.  note the single anchor........

[Old Collingwood]

Really good start  denis,    with the wood stock   (not the uk music place)   have you tried ebay?

 

OC.

[jct]

didn't notice the anchor till you mentioned it...different

[popeye the sailor]

I'm sure we'll notice other things that are different.   I thought that about the anchor anyway.......figured that this small a vessel wouldn't likely have the need for two anchors.  I've used this as a rule of thumb......so seeing this model with two got me thinking.  logically........a ship is at port.......it would be logical for the anchor to be located on the starboard side,  much like the diagram dictates.  but thumbing through the Petersson book,  it shows an American schooner with two catheads,  which suggests that two anchors are used......or can be.  for some of these smaller vessels,  the cathead is also an anchor point for one of the bob stay lines.  once I get the book you have,  more will come to light.

 

I haven't seen anything in the way of plywood billets on E-Bay OC..........I'll have to check it out though    I know that Mark gets something for his laser cutting.......I'll ask him what he uses and go from there.  even MDF would work better than some of these plywoods I buy.

 

as J and I proceed,  we've taken on our own directions on the model.  this is how others view their projects.......without logs,  the first time modeler,  would have a tough time figuring out the right way for them to go.   the different styles shown on this site is exciting......when I built my first wood ship,  I was so clueless........the processes in building one of these models is much different than plastic.  but the one thing that is much easier,  is that if a part breaks or doesn't fit correctly,  another part can be made faster and {hopefully} better suited for the task.  my take is to plank the hull first....get the overall shape of the hull and deck area,  and go from there.  the book I received adds another vessel to the fold....the cutter.  it's a single masted vessel,  so a little more modification must be made.......mostly to the deck area.  I won't be going there though;  I'm going to stick with the schooner concept.  so now,  both bulwarks are planked and I can see how the deck line meets the bulwarks.  there are some gaps....I expected that,  but I am happy that it looks as good as it does.  the port side had very little gap towards the stern....most of it is at the bow.  the starboard side needs one more strake to complete the bulwark closure.

the port side is not bad at all at the stern........it's at the bow.......

 

it's not overly bad.......deck planking will cover that easily.  I did run into a small problem at the port stern........I went to trim off the excess planking and I took a chunk out of the plank above it.  I had to remove that small section and replace it........but with doing that,  I chipped the one above that one.....GRRRRRR!  so I have a two strake repair at the stern....I hope it becomes unnoticeable when the hull is sanded.  I want to stain the hull,  but if I have to paint the upper part black,  so be it......that will definitely cover the sin     I also decided to stagger in some butts......awwww hell,  make it interesting.....right?   I still want to make a second hull......the brigg angle is too cool not to do....I've never done one.  I think everyone should know me by now.....replicating hull is something I love to do,  and if I can squeeze another model out of this kit,  then I got more than my money's worth.  planking the bulwarks can be a bit messy on the deck side....glue blobs and such.  I take an odd piece of wood and remove the blobs,  cleaning the inner bulwark up.  if the inner bulwark is to be planked over,  than this will not be an issue.  I will sometimes do it,  but all of the posts need to be the exact size and shape,  so bulges won't be a deal breaker.   the starboard side strake,  closing up the deck / bulwark relationship,  has been cemented in place now.

 

at the bow,  it's a bit worse,  but not bad enough that the deck planking can't cover it.  there is good mating.......I am glad to see that.  now I'm able to us outer forms of clamping and I won't have to worry about glue blobs and stuff.  once dry and a little sanding,  I should have a neat appearance for the bulwarks.  I've taken the day off today......with any luck,  I can get most of the hull planking done.  one thing I forgot to do,  is draw the center line down the middle,  to mark the start of the deck planking.

 

[popeye the sailor]

well..........it's confirmed.........planking is like watching paint dry   I'm probably at the 1/3 point.  do a strake......let it dry.......repeat.   getting an idea of the angle of the bow stem,  the bow end of the planks were cut to the angle,  and then beveled so they would lay flat to the stem.

the first plank laid after the bulwarks were closed up.........

I got to thinking of the masts and the boxes I want to make.   I want to be ready for that step,  so when the masts are installed,  they will have a firm root point.  picking out the size dowels mentioned in the diagrams,  the holes were made large enough to accept them,  and then set in place.

  

this looks to be the rake they are to be at....I have the spirit boom dry fitted too.  I'm going to have to find out how long they are to be......I'm sure it's not this long.  the boxes don't need to be pretty......just functional.

after these are trimmed down and sanded to shape  they will be installed........the main mast box already is.   the fore mast box will need to be located further up the #3 bulkhead,  or it will interfere with the planking.   I did a few strakes on the starboard side too,  but more was added to the port side .

so now it's time to stop for the evening....this is where I am at the moment.

  

the bow is OK so far........no drastic measures need to be taken yet.   but the stern however....I think it's time to taper the planking.

what you can see of the stern looks neat and trim........that's because I've already trimmed it........done some sanding too.   .........just can't handle the idea that the planking is rough.  this is Obechi.....a fairly soft wood,  that likely wouldn't mill smooth in the first place.  it does have it's limitations though....the twist will snap if you try to force it.  usually when I plank,  I will wet it down and plank the hull damp.....it is a bit more elastic.  it can dry on the hull..........actually,  I think it helps the glue seep into the wood's pores,  giving it a better bond.   but here,  I'm using it dry without much trouble.   tomorrow is another day....I had a great day off  

 

as always,  thanks for look'in in and the likes  

                                                                                                                           

Edited February 26, 2020 by popeye the sailor

[Dr PR]

You mention mast lengths. There are a number of books that give the proportions of masts and spars. Most lengths are based upon the breadth of the hull (beam). Some are based upon the Line of Flotation - the distance between the rabbets on the bow and stern posts at the load water line.

 

Wolfram zu Mondfeld's Historic Ship Models section on masts and yards (page 212) tells a lot about these things and gives a table of masts and topmasts and a table of proportions of yards.

 

However, almost all of the books give mast and spar dimensions for square rigged ships. Schooners (fore and aft rigs) are quite different. Without all the spars and square sails the load on the schooner masts is much smaller, so the diameters are smaller. Topsail schooners are a bit different too, because of the topsail and topgallant and their rigging, but the masts are still smaller diameter than for the full square rig. And schooners with square sails on only the fore mast may have a main mast that is smaller diameter than the fore mast, although many schooners have both masts the same diameter.

 

Then to complicate matters even more, the American schooners usually carried much taller masts, with greater rake and larger sails than the European counterparts - especially the British. Usually after the Brits captured an American schooner they shortened the masts.

 

The best reference I have found for the dimension of American schooners is Chapelle's The Baltimore Clipper. Page 160 gives Professor Rankine's version of Fincham's Rules (he was an English ship designer) for two masted schooner masts and spars, based upon the dimension of actual ships. Rules for sails are also given. The Appendix on page 179 lists the entire set of Fincham's Rules. These rules give ranges of dimensions, because there was a lot of variation from ship to ship. And the book lists dimensions of many actual ships.

 

However, many builders used their own rules. I have examined dozens of schooner sail plans and almost all fall within the ranges given in Fincham's Rules. And the dimension varied from century to century, so you need to decide what period you are building, where the ship was built, and if it was later captured and modified.

 

My build log for a Baltimore Clipper, posts #52, #68 and #69 discusses the masts and sails, using Fincham's Rules.

 

I am working on a detailed list of rules for masting, rigging and sails of topsail schooners that I will post on the Forum someday. Right now several other things are interfering with my research and modeling, so it may be a while before it is finished.

 

Finally, Lennarth Petersson's Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft has an excellent section on topsail schooner rigging. It is based upon the 1812 Chesapeke Bay built Baltimore Clipper Experiment for which very good documentation exists. But Experiment had a couple of odd features, so the rigging described in the book is for a more typical topsail schooner rig.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Dr PR

[jct]

Hey Popeye...you are way ahead of me...I just got the gaboards and 1/2 plank on, may get 2 more on today, LOL, I surprised to see you working from the top down

[popeye the sailor]

hello Dr. Per........thanks for the info    I order two book.......I believe it was you that suggested them to J......I received Lennarth Petersson's book the other day and I just got Underhill's book today.  the diagram sheet shows the length of the mast segment in lines

  

along with this is the mast part arrangement.   the first steps of the masts are both 6 mm..........the fore mast is 413 mm,  and the main mast is 381 mm.  I'm looking at them thinking that they are too long.....even knowing that they include the mast roots.  where I plan on going the schooner route,  these masts have only two segments each........I will have to find out the masts total height when fully assembled.  I hope they can be narrowed down with the books,  because they certainly aren't specified on the diagram sheet.  the scale of the model is 1:60.

 

I always plank from the bulwarks down J........that way I can hide my mistakes below the waterline........paint can hide a multiple of sin    I haven't done much today.......took the admiral to the doctors.......out to breakfast,  and then to the grocery store.   broke my driver inside door handle,  so now I gotta fix it   luckily,  it's a small job.   now I'm scaring up the parts for the second hull......yea......the first one hasn't driven me batty enough,  wanna times it by two and REALLY turn up the heat     figure I'll get in there later and make some more sawdust.

[jct]

18 minutes ago, popeye the sailor said:

took the admiral to the doctors.......out to breakfast,  and then to the grocery store

Why that's exactly what I did this morning too...small world huh...I got the garboard and one plank per side and then started back at the deck edge...establishing a foundation for my faux timberheads to attach to, more little stuff in my log.

 

OK so you're gonna have two Jumbos?   sheez...Oh...thats right yours is Andy so will you have Andy II??

[popeye the sailor]

yea....ate most of my morning.  I have underhill's book....looked through them both for measurements.  I not too good at bring'in 'em down to scale...I may have to punt,  but I'll see if there is a scale calculator on line {I just thought of this}.  the Underhill book is from 1965........fairly good shape,  hard cover,  and has a fold out of the belaying diagram for a three masted clipper.   I started to repair the old bulkheads.......I made another set of 10A & 1A parts to complete the bulwarks.  I really hate to throw the parts away {my inner pack rat speaking},  so why not use them.  I've already traced out another deck platform............

 

-> and it was at this point in the conversation, that Denis AKA Popeye, remembered something else<-

 

.....I gotta make another pair of 9A's too........jeeze,  almost forgot ...........anyway.........I do like the model that the kit represents,  so I will try and build it that way too.   misery loves company..........a bird in the hand,  means you won't get any on the head.........the ungian thing sir.........  ------------------>oops,  got carried away again

 

I have a bunch of ships of scale and model ship builder magazines that Harold gave me when he gave me the Nordkap.  I thumbed through a few of them and found a article for a privateer 1812.......pretty close to the box image.  I'll look through a few more and see what else I'll find.