Gokstad c. 900 AD by bigpetr - 1:48 - CARD - viking ship

[bigpetr]

Hello friends,

 

this is continuation of the journey that begun here:

After the initial try with the paper kit I came to the conclusion to build from scratch, so I continue my Gokstad ship build in this forum section.

 

I am sorting out and comparing plans and measurement from Werner Dammann book "Das Gokstadschiff und seine Boote" and from Nicolaysen book "The Viking Ship Discovered at Gokstad in Norway".

There is lots of differences so I decided to start with measurements given in numbers and then tweak the drawn plans to fit those numbers. I do it all in 3D software. I have started to plot the curves based on the plans. They will be tweaked later to match the numbers. 

[ccoyle]

Thanks for including links in both logs!

[bigpetr]

I have some progress with planking. It takes me longer then I expected, because I had to compare four sets of source data - Nicolaysen plans, Dammann book plans, Oslo museum plans they had there in year 1999 and photographs of reconstructed ship displayed at museum. Quite a diferences amongst this data sets I must say. Even in basic numbers like length, width and height of the ship. I used combination of dimensions that seems right to me, so I can not say I am 100% right.

 

If some of you know whitch plan is the closest to the reality, please let me know. It would help me a lot in my endeavour to have it right.

 

First four planks. I will be further tweaking the planks when all 16 is in place. Dots marks the end of each plank.

 

[bigpetr]

Planking done. Here is comparison with the original. I think I am pretty close.

 

[Binho]

Cool subject! In regards to the Gokstad I don’t know enough to say which plan is the most “accurate” - but remember, all archaeological reconstructions are hypothetical. These ships that were excavated over 100 years ago even more so. This ship was excavated in 1880 and not to modern standards, after being crushed and deformed by tons of earth for 1000 years. It was then broken up, moved, puzzled back together, and bent back in to shape. Bits were even added, to make it look sexier on display. My advice would be to read about how they came up with each of the plans and go with the plan you find most convincing. 
 

Sorry, not much help. Looking forward to see what comes out though!

[Schrader]

It is on my list.....  i can not wait to see your log

[tkay11]

Just as a matter of interest, what CAD software are you using?

 

Tony

[bigpetr]

I have the same look at it as you have Binho, but I keep saying myself that if they did not cheated and matched rivet holes while reconstructing, it can not be too off from the original shape 😀

 

I am using Rhinoceros for modeling. It has good flatenning functions to produce 2d templates out of unfoldable 3d objects.

[bigpetr]

Hello friends, I did test paint. It should represent tar and linsen oil. What do you think, does il looks right?

 

[mtaylor]

It does have that look of tar and age.   So if that's what you're looking for, it's good.

[bigpetr]

It is what I am looking for. I am just not sure it it is not too rough for used but maintained ship. Whether the paint should not be more uniform. And maybe lighter?

[Schrader]

For me....is a little bit so dark.  I would go with something lighter.

[bigpetr]

I am using Roskilde museum replicas as color reference. All their ships have this dark colour, but they use modern chemical - Hempel's Classic, which has copper as the active preservative substance. So I do not know how much authenic is this colour.

 

 

Another replica, Islendingur, is painted dark only under the water level. It is mentioned in Erik the Red saga that they used seal tar for bottom of the ship, but it is not known what seal tar consisted of. So maybe this is more like it, who knows:

 

 

 

[KrisWood]

Hi @bigpetr! I finally found your build log thanks to the new MSW forum organization scheme. It's looking great! I'm going to follow this thread religiously.

[Louie da fly]

The CAD drawing is very impressive and as far as I can see it would be hard to do a better job of turning the available information on this ship into an accurate model. 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

This model is always on my list. Your progress is looking really promising.

Is it possible from the 3D model to get the right shape for the planks?

[bigpetr]

 

On 6/26/2020 at 9:38 PM, KrisWood said:

Hi @bigpetr! I finally found your build log thanks to the new MSW forum organization scheme. It's looking great! I'm going to follow this thread religiously.

 

Thank you Kris, new forum organization is great, I also found great threads I missed earlier .

 

On 6/27/2020 at 9:21 AM, Louie da fly said:

The CAD drawing is very impressive and as far as I can see it would be hard to do a better job of turning the available information on this ship into an accurate model. 

 

Thanky you Louie, I am trying my best. I have read about Oseberg ship that its hull shape was adjusted and changed by archeologist at least once, so now, that I know none of Gokstad plan si probably 100% right I can get away with what I have . I am still tweaking it a little when adding another parts of the ship.

 

On 6/27/2020 at 10:33 AM, AnobiumPunctatum said:

This model is always on my list. Your progress is looking really promising.

Is it possible from the 3D model to get the right shape for the planks?

 

It is possible. It is one of the the reasons I am modeling it. To get the shape of the ribs and planks and other parts.

[bigpetr]

I finaly sorted out level of deck and ribs placement. 

 

I also got some thougth from historian, that mens when rowing did not sit on chests (none were find on Gokstad) but on ribs with deck planks temporarily removed. Interesting thougth, so I did some comparison. What do you think is more probable?

 

[Srodbro]

I vote for oarsmen seated on ribs.
 

If the relationship between the oar-ports and the ribs is correct, then the oar is level ( or close to level) with the rower’s shoulders, giving him a much more powerful, more efficient stroke. Also, the head and shoulders are better protected from wind/weather/projectiles by the height of the gunnels. I anticipate that it’s more likely that he would also have something to firmly brace his feet against, than if seated on a chest on deck. 
 

All just IMHO. 

[KrisWood]

Having a lot of height between the deck and the gunnel doesn't seem to have been a priority for the Vikings as far as I can tell. All of the longship plans I've seen have the same low railings only a few strakes above the deck.

 

That said, I think the seating on the deck beams makes just as much sense if the body mechanics of the rowers are the same. For example the Mediterranean galleys often had their rowing benches built onto the frames in a similar manner (I've seen ones where the oarsmen would brace their feet against the floor timber of the next bench).

 

I'd think the best predictors of where the oarsmen sat would be the relative height of the oar hole to the seated rower, and whatever the preference has been for rowers of the multiple full size Gokstad replicas built over the last century or so.

 

Have any of the Gokstad replicas been rowed from a position seated on the deck beams?

 

Also, how do you get you get such lovely surfaces from your curves in Rhino? Every time I try to make surfaces from my Oseberg curves they come out kind of chunky and not at all the shape I expect.

[mtaylor]

As I understood about the chests and why none have been found in any sites, was because the chests were the individual property of the rower.  They stored clothing, weapons, etc. in them.   But it may be right that sitting on the rib was the way it was done.   No matter which way you go, no one can prove you wrong.

[KrisWood]

I just looked at the Gokstad plans again and noticed one thing in support of the deck-beam-seats hypothesis: Every oar hole has a deck beam equidistant on either side of it. Aside from the platform at the stern for handling the rudder, there are no deck beams EXCEPT on either side of the oar holes. This means, if the hypothesis is correct, that oarsmen could sit facing forward or backward on a beam and still have the same distance to the oar hole.

 

 

[bigpetr]

Skuldevev ships have build in benches as part of the frame. Gokstad and Oseberg have no such a thing, so we can only speculate nad use experimental archeology.

 

Most of the functional Gokstad replicas are not full scale but mainly 1/2, 2/3 or 1/4. All fullscale replicas used chests as benches for rowers. Smaller scale replicas has built in benches or chests. So none of the replicas used deck beams as benches as far as I know.

 

Kriss, to produce nice surface in Rhino you need to have clean curves with adequately distributed curves control points/knots. To solve what causing you the problems I would have to see the curves. You can send them to me and I will look at it and give you some tips, if you want.

 

 

[bigpetr]

Here is comparison of my model with 3d scan of actual ship. Little off at the stern but curent reconstruction of original ship can not represent exactly like it looked like at its times from many reasons, so I will let it as is, because it could easily be as I have modeled it.

 

 

Here I completed stem inner structure:

 

It will be covered by skin layer after ataching to the keel. That way it will have right tapered shape to reflect actual stem crossections.

 

[Louie da fly]

Looking forward to see this all come together in the real world!

[bigpetr]

Keel sterm and stern are attached together. Everything fits as designed and matches with my blueprints.

 

Here is detail of the transition from keel to stem, where you can see the switch from crosection of the keel to crossection of the stem liko on original ship.

 

Next step will be to make decorative carvings to the stem and stern before attaching the ribs and false deck.

[Louie da fly]

Hi, Bigpetr. What kind of carvings are you planning on? There was quite a lot of difference between the Viking decorative styles of different periods - Broa, Oseberg, Borre, Jellinge, Mammen, Ringerike, Urnes. As the Gokstad ship dates to c. 890 AD, it would most likely have had either Borre or Jellinge style decoration - see http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/norse_art.htm - a google image search will show lots of examples of each style.

 

And except for the Oseberg ship, there haven't been any actual Viking figureheads found in archaeology- some carved bed-ends, posts and a few other things, but never a proper ships' figurehead. What most reconstructions do is base their figureheads on what has been found in archaeology.

 

It's good to see that the theory and practice are working well together. It's looking good. 

[bigpetr]

Thank you Louie. I probably expres myself incorectly. By carvings I ment theese grooves on the planking and basicly near every edge on the ship.

 

Gokstad had no other carvings beside this, circular patterns on the deck planks and sailor scriblings on the deck planks - game boards, traces of the foot. Oh and I almost forgot nicely carved handle of the rudder

 

[mtaylor]

Would the figureheads have been taken off when the ship was buried for some purpose, maybe burying it separately or offering it as a sacrifice to the gods?  Seems odd they never found any except the one.

[KrisWood]

8 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Would the figureheads have been taken off when the ship was buried for some purpose, maybe burying it separately or offering it as a sacrifice to the gods?  Seems odd they never found any except the one.

 

I think it's more a matter of the nature of Viking burials in general. The stems of viking ship burials are almost always smashed to bits by the time they're discovered by archaeologists. The Vikings generally built mounds over them, sometimes a longhouse enclosed the ship and THEN the mound was built over that. As the weight of the mound settles on top of the ship over centuries the parts at the top get the most damage. As it is, only fragments of the figurehead of the Oseberg ship were found when it was excavated. Both the Oseberg Ship and the Gokstad ship are missing the upper halves of their bow and stern.