Thermopylae by Devildog36 - Mantua - 1:124

[Devildog36]

So I ordered this kit and it is out for delivery today.  It's my first large wood model kit and the first model kit in over 30 years.  I was an avid modeler of mostly plastic kits until College.  I'm a few years from retirement and decided to restart my hobby.  I have been reading the abundance of material on this site and  watching many videos.  I'm looking forward to the challenge.  I've found these kits for this ship as far back as the 1980's but have no idea when the first wood model was.  I found it listed on many sites but most were out of stock with no idea when they would be restocked.  I paid more for it than I should have but I found the last one available from an Amazon store and decided to pull the trigger anyway.   I will appreciate any feedback, positive or negative on the build and any suggestions as well.  Attached is the manufacturer's photo

 

 Thanks

[Devildog36]

So it arrived today. I was about to post photos of the plans to show how nice they are but after reading the post on pirating I’ve decided against it.   Here’s everything I received today. 

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, Devildog36 said:

I was about to post photos of the plans to show how nice they are but after reading the post on pirating I’ve decided against it.

No fears. Posting a photo of a portion of the plans, e.g. part of a plan sheet, for review purposes is covered by fair use exemptions.

[Jim Lad]

Looks like it will build into a nice model, but beware of the rigging. From the manufacturer's photo, it looks like a work of fiction.

 

John

[baskerbosse]

6 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

Looks like it will build into a nice model, but beware of the rigging. From the manufacturer's photo, it looks like a work of fiction.

 

John

Indeed. Look at those braces..! That's unusual... 

😞

Might be good to look for an alternative rigging plan.

Rest looks good though.

 

Peter

[Henke]

Welcome to MSW Devildog. I like those clipper ships and there are not too many Termopylae build logs. Lets get started!

 

Best regards

Henrik

[Devildog36]

8 hours ago, baskerbosse said:

Indeed. Look at those braces..! That's unusual... 

😞

Might be good to look for an alternative rigging plan.

Rest looks good though.

 

Peter

Thanks for that.  I will plan to look at other sources online for the rigging.  laid the keel and will spend the day sanding and studying planking.  

[Devildog36]

So moving along.  I’m using a clothing steamer to bend wood. I don’t have to soak and simple pull the wood through the steam the direction of the bend I want.  I’m thinking it works well. 

[Louie da fly]

I'll pull up a chair, if you don't mind.Looks like an interesting project, and you're off to a good start.

 

Regarding the orientation of the photos, I've had success saving the photo to a file on my computer, then rotating it and re-saving it if its orientation was wrong, and only then uploading it to the build log. Sometimes it's up the right way in the file but wrong in the build log. If that's the case, I delete the uploaded one from the log and go back and rotate it again till it all comes out right. Others who are more tech savvy might have a better way to do it, but this seems to work for me.

 

Regarding rigging, there's a whole section in this forum just related to it. Just go to the home page and you'll see it about halfway down the page. Rigging is very date-specific - twenty years can make a big difference. There are books out there which others should be able to refer you to (not my field - I know nothing baout the rigging of this period) which should be able to help you a lot. Also look at other Thermopylae build logs, and perhaps others from ships of the same time like Cutty Sark, which should give you some pointers.

 

BTW, just a bit of historical interest, "Thermopylae" means "hot gates" in Ancient Greek. The "gates" were the narrow pass across the mountains, the "hot" was because there were hot springs there.

 

Looking forward to watching progress on this one.

[Jim Lad]

You've made a really good start on her!

 

John

[Devildog36]

Thanks for the great response and support.  I’ll try to be better with the photos. Wasn’t thinking about orientation. Tks.  I found some great resources on the site and am using them.  Special thanks to Popeye as he built this specific model.  I have no experience and I’m a very much “Tim the tool man” kind of guy but I’m having fun doing this. 
so I found some historical reference where the rear deck house (sp) had rounded walls.  I liked it so thought I’d give it a try.  I didn’t have any round stock so I had to make one from square.  I split it and glued it up.  Not great but I think I can make it work with some wood filler and lots or sanding.  

[Devildog36]

First decking is coming along but lots of sanding to follow.  Very slow but I’m learning a lot each day and am feeling confident about the second decking. 

[Devildog36]

Ok, so I need some positive reinforcement.  If a couple of you could be honest I would appreciate the rest sending positive comments.   I think the clothing steamer is wonderful.  It’s allowing me to form the planks easily.  I just started the compound bends with twist and feel ok it’s it.  I’m thinking I will cover the hull with filler and sand smooth before applying the outer hall.  I’m also modifying the deck houses as I found an early painting of a ship that had some minor differences and I think it is good practice for me.  I didn’t like the look of the rudder so I added a piece of wood to make it more level.  I couldn’t find any photos or paintings  of my ship Specific but other cutters didn’t have the big gap.  And yes that is a Bloody Mary 

[BobG]

You're moving along at warp speed, Devildog36! These clipper ships have beautiful lines and it's great to see a model of the Thermopylae currently being build. I'll take a seat and enjoy the show.

 

22 minutes ago, Devildog36 said:

I’m thinking I will cover the hull with filler and sand smooth before applying the outer hall.

You can get a great base for the second planking with filler and sanding. I do see that you have some gaps between the planks. That won't be a problem with the first planking since you will be using filler but, on the second planking, you will want to try and achieve a tighter fit. Be sure to read some planking tutorials about tapering the planks and beveling the top edge when necessary to help obtain a tight fit. Glenn Barlow recently posted this excellent, brief tutorial on how he goes about planking the hull:

 

 

Good luck on your build. You're off to a great start.

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Fingers crossed Devildog. its fine you will fugure it. definitely better to steam planks so you can bend them at critical points around stern. and there is wood filler after all so nothing to be worry about  well done. filler might be definite advantage if you want perfect hull. but nothing necessary.  without it you may dill it up with file

r after done and sand to perfect shape and after paint or if you want another( thinner)  layer of planks its up to you   -  what helped me was always putting one plank over bulkheads to check if they lay perfectly on so they can be glued - i also sand bulkheafs dame way. with longer srick of wood with sanding paper on. so make sure sanding paper goes always thru at least 2 bulkheads and it will sand off exact amount ...:) well done. Vlad. 

 

[Louie da fly]

Hi Devildog.Looks like you're making good progress, and I agree with the assessments of the others. One point is that with that very tight curve at the stern you might find planking there a bit of a challenge. Steaming should help a lot, but you might find you have to try it several times before you get it exactly right.

 

If that's the case, then do it over and over again, rather than settle for "almost right". You'll be glad down the track, because otherwise it will sneer at you every time you look at it, and remind you that with a bit more patience you could have got it right - don't ask me how I know. And this applies to every aspect of the model.Patience and persistence are what it's all about (it's not a race).

[WalrusGuy]

On 8/11/2020 at 3:09 PM, Jim Lad said:

Looks like it will build into a nice model, but beware of the rigging. From the manufacturer's photo, it looks like a work of fiction.

 

John

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, but what gives it away as a work of fiction? 

[Jim Lad]

If you look at the manufacturer's illustration, you can see that all of the fore and main braces run forward instead of aft!

 

John

[Louie da fly]

WalrusGuy, ask away - there are no "stupid questions", and those who know about this stuff are probably checking on this log every now and then. I'll leave it to those more knowledgeable to give the proper information, but I'm pretty sure that for a start those braces (the ropes at the ends of the yards) should lead aft, not forward, on the fore and main masts.

 

[Edit] Damn! Jim Lad beat me to it! That's the trouble with both being in the same time zone . . . [/Edit]

[WalrusGuy]

1 hour ago, Jim Lad said:

If you look at the manufacturer's illustration, you can see that all of the fore and main braces run forward instead of aft!

 

John

 

1 hour ago, Louie da fly said:

WalrusGuy, ask away - there are no "stupid questions", and those who know about this stuff are probably checking on this log every now and then. I'll leave it to those more knowledgeable to give the proper information, but I'm pretty sure that for a start those braces (the ropes at the ends of the yards) should lead aft, not forward, on the fore and main masts.

 

[Edit] Damn! Jim Lad beat me to it! That's the trouble with both being in the same time zone . . . [/Edit]

Thanks Jim and Louie! You guys really have an eye for detail. I wish one day I can also notice these things. I hope I'm not hijacking this build log, but does one gain this knowledge through experience in building models or through reading books? 

[Richvee]

Looks like a fun kit. I've got my eyes on a clipper somewhere down the road. I'll be following along.

 

For anyone modeling a clipper, I highly suggest a read through the amazing bulidlog of EdT's Young America. 

 

[Louie da fly]

25 minutes ago, WalrusGuy said:

does one gain this knowledge through experience in building models or through reading books? 

Well, it's a bit of both. But books are the best way of gaining the theoretical information (depending on the book - some are pretty useless - but there's a whole section of the MSW forum that deals with masting, rigging and sails, and I just used the search function for "books on rigging" and found this which would be appropriate to ships of Thermopylae's period 

 

and there's probably others among the search results if you care to look further.

 

Then building the models gives you the practical experience and you get to see the inter-relationships of all the ropes, and how it's all a balance of forces - some pull this way, others balance them by pulling the opposite way - for example, the stays keep keep the masts from falling backwards, the backstays keep them from falling forwards and the shrouds stop them falling sideways (and forwards).

 

If you're doing a clipper, the above book is probably ideal. Other books are more appropriate to other periods. If you have further questions, it's probably best to ask them in the "masting rigging and sails"section (but first do a search - your question may already have been answered); then you don't have to worry about hijacking someone else's thread (which is not recommended - but heck, you have to find out somehow).

[WalrusGuy]

Thanks so much for the detailed response! I'm glad I found this log as I've learnt so much already.  I'll take a look in that sub forum for some more learning. And apologies @Devildog36 for hijacking your build log, I'll try to do better 🙂 

 

A clipper is in my to-do list, so I will definitely follow along to see how she progresses. So far she's coming along very nicely! 

[BobG]

4 hours ago, Louie da fly said:

You'll be glad down the track, because otherwise it will sneer at you every time you look at it, and remind you that with a bit more patience you could have got it right - don't ask me how I know

That's a lesson we all need to learn at some point and don't ask me how I know either!

[Devildog36]

9 hours ago, WalrusGuy said:

Thanks so much for the detailed response! I'm glad I found this log as I've learnt so much already.  I'll take a look in that sub forum for some more learning. And apologies @Devildog36 for hijacking your build log, I'll try to do better 🙂 

 

A clipper is in my to-do list, so I will definitely follow along to see how she progresses. So far she's coming along very nicely! 

 I worries at all.  As a matter of fact you’ve helped a lot.  Since it’s all on building a clipper I don’t consider it hijacking.  Rather just sharing more info.  Good luck

[Devildog36]

So I’m continuing with the first planks.  It’s slow work so I’m also working on the deck houses.  The walnut decking is pretty rough around the edges so I bundled them and sanded them lightly.  I’m still working on the rear deck house but I finished the front and will paint and stain soon.  

[Jim Lad]

You're making good progress.  Remember the old saying, 'slow and steady wins the race'.

[Louie da fly]

Yes, each step completed is not only a step towards the completed model, but it's also an achievement in itself. You're doing well and one day you'll be able to look back on this and say "It was really worth putting in that effort." And you'll have a model to be proud of.

[Devildog36]

Planking continues and I learn a little more each day.  This model is definitely hard for a first timer but I’m enjoying it.  Haven’t looked at the plans in two day. Lol. I’m experimenting with the deck houses and not happy at this point but I’ll keep you posted. 
 

[Louie da fly]

Nice work on the stern. I was wondering how you were going to do that. What's the problem with the deckhouses?