HMS Fly by Starlight - Amati/Victory Models - 1:64 - first build

[starlight]

Hello all,

 

This is my first ever model and my first time posting on this forum.

 

As a bit of background, I am a grad student in my early 20's. I suspect this places me firmly in the minority regarding the demographics of this forum. I consider myself to possess a reasonable engineering/technical background for my age. I have somewhat good access to tools and consumables for the purposes of this build. My interest in ships of this era stems mostly from naval fiction and non-fiction literature. As such I am unfamiliar with some of the terminology involved in shipbuilding.

 

The HMS Fly kit from Victory Models was represented to me as a solid choice for a "confident beginner". I hope to inherit some of the knowledge from the experienced modelers on this forum, and those that have also built this kit before.

 

Here are the box and contents that I received back in August:

 

 

Photos of the build progression to follow in subsequent posts.

 

-Starlight

[CTDavies]

Hello Starlight,

I started this model about five weeks ago. This is where I am now.
I‘ll be happy to tune in every now and then.

chris

 

[CTDavies]

Some more images

 

[starlight]

Dry-fitting of the false keel and bulkheads back in early September:

 

 

At this point I have two questions:

1. The instructions state: "it is recommended that the stern area of the false keel to which the rudder post will be glued to is sanded to roughly half of its original width. This is because once the second planking is complete... less sanding will be required to attain a flush finish between the keel edge and rudder post." Does anyone know exactly how much area needs to be reduced to half-thickness? I am unable to visualize the final result after second planking that the instructions refer to.
2. I am trying to think of the best method to bevel the bulkheads for fit-up for planking. My initial idea was to estimate a bevel angle for each bulkhead and scribe a corresponding offset curve on the face of each bulkhead with calipers. This would give me a rough indication of the amount of material to remove. Does anyone know of a better way?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me.

 

-Starlight

[starlight]

9 minutes ago, CTDavies said:

Hello Starlight,

I started this model about five weeks ago. This is where I am now.
I‘ll be happy to tune in every now and then.

chris

 

Hi CTDavies,

 

Your model looks quite nice. I will be sure to check out your build log.

 

-Starlight

[VTHokiEE]

22 minutes ago, starlight said:

Does anyone know exactly how much area needs to be reduced to half-thickness?

This is usually this is done outside the bearding line. You’ll want to do some research into this (I’m still a novice so I may not be spot on) but I’m pretty certain the bearding line connects the aft bulkhead bottom points. There’s a planking tutorial kit from the NRG that have a build log that goes into some more detail. I’ll try to dig it up.

 

Edit: Hopefully this helps: 

 

[starlight]

20 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Well you are starting with a lovely vessel and there are a number of detailed logs on here - but Pegasus is in most respects basically identical so most early hull related questions can be addressed by looking at either set of logs. My own  Fly and a chunk of my Pegasus log got lost in the " the big crash" . If you do the maths and add two sides of two thickenesses of planking plus the thickness of the keel ply you can see its  very too wide. 

 

19 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

This is usually this is done outside the bearding line. You’ll want to do some research into this (I’m still a novice so I may not be spot on) but I’m pretty certain the bearding line connects the aft bulkhead bottom points. There’s a planking tutorial kit from the NRG that have a build log that goes into some more detail. I’ll try to dig it up.

 

Thank you both for your excellent advice.

[ccoyle]

21 hours ago, starlight said:

I am a grad student in my early 20's. I suspect this places me firmly in the minority regarding the demographics of this forum.

 

Tosh! Most of us here were once in our early 20's.* Fly is a great model, and at some point in the future I may actually finish mine (started in 2006).

 

*At some point in history only dimly now recalled and receding rapidly into the murky mists of time.

[starlight]

Progress update from the last few weeks.

 

Drew the bearding line. I traced a paper cutout to make sure it was the same on both sides.

 

Roughly bevelled the bulkheads. I did this by scribing an offset onto the bulkhead using some cheap calipers and some basic trigonometry. This gave me a visual target to sand down to.

 

Bulkheads after bevelling:

 

Glued the bulkhead assembly together.

 

 

 

Will be moving on to the deck planking and assemblies next. A quick question regarding the capstan: how many ribs (P/N 108) are present in this assembly? The drawing seems to show 7, but 8 are provided. Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by starlight

[chris watton]

25 minutes ago, starlight said:

Progress update from the last few weeks.

 

Drew the bearding line. I traced a paper cutout to make sure it was the same on both sides.

 

Roughly bevelled the bulkheads. I did this by estimating an angle θ for each bulkhead, calculating an offset x using x = 5mm * tan(θ), and scribing that offset onto the bulkhead using some cheap calipers. This gave me a visual target to sand down to.

 

Bulkheads after bevelling:

 

Glued the bulkhead assembly together.

 

 

 

Will be moving on to the deck planking and assemblies next. A quick question regarding the capstan: how many ribs (P/N 108) are present in this assembly? The drawing seems to show 7, but 8 are provided. Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

A lot of times, I usually add a little more than needed, especially if the parts are easily lost. Nothing worse than having to stop your build because a small part flew out of the tweezers and, no matter how hard you look, you can never find the damn part. Until a few weeks later, and it was under your nose the whole time...

[starlight]

56 minutes ago, chris watton said:

A lot of times, I usually add a little more than needed, especially if the parts are easily lost. Nothing worse than having to stop your build because a small part flew out of the tweezers and, no matter how hard you look, you can never find the damn part. Until a few weeks later, and it was under your nose the whole time...

 

Hi Chris, it's an honour to see you on my build log. The kit is very well designed and I hope I can do it justice.

 

I suspected that the 8th part was a matter of spares, just wanted to make sure.

 

-Starlight

 

[starlight]

The aforementioned capstan assembly.

 

 

Upon reading other build logs of Fly/Pegasus I realized that I had severely under-faired the stern extensions. I decided to redo them, and I think they look more reasonable now.

 

After doing some research on the deck planking and fittings, there are some salient points on which I would appreciate any comments/advice:

• I see that many other modelers add planking to the false MDF deck below the hatches on the gun deck. I certainly appreciate the visual improvement this makes, but I highly doubt that the kit comes with enough extra planking for me to do this. Are there any other options to give this effect?
• I am preparing to do the hatch coamings but I confess I have no idea how to join all the little bits together and the instructions are a bit sparse on dimensions. Can anyone point me toward some primer material on the subject? In all the other build logs I have seen, the (very proficient and experienced) modeler simply breezes past them.
• Should I be planking the deck in situ as everyone else seems to be doing?

Thanks everyone.

[Richard44]

Hi Starlight,

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the planking on the lower deck - it's basically invisible once you complete all the hatches on the upper deck. I did it, but I had plenty of wood left over from other builds.

 

As for the coamings/hatches, if you haven't come across Blue Ensign's build log, look it up. He has some details of how he did these which should help you.

 

I glued the false deck in place then planked it - it seems the logical thing to do.

 

You're doing well with your build, the best piece of advice I can give you is to think ahead, several steps ahead in fact. Tends to prevent any nasty surprises.

 

I've got a few days off then I'll be onto the hull planking. Should be fun!

 

Cheers

[starlight]

1 hour ago, Richard44 said:

Hi Starlight,

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the planking on the lower deck - it's basically invisible once you complete all the hatches on the upper deck. I did it, but I had plenty of wood left over from other builds.

 

As for the coamings/hatches, if you haven't come across Blue Ensign's build log, look it up. He has some details of how he did these which should help you.

 

I glued the false deck in place then planked it - it seems the logical thing to do.

 

You're doing well with your build, the best piece of advice I can give you is to think ahead, several steps ahead in fact. Tends to prevent any nasty surprises.

 

I've got a few days off then I'll be onto the hull planking. Should be fun!

 

Cheers

 

Hi Richard,

 

Thanks for your words of encouragement. I just looked up Blue Ensign's log and I regret not having discovered it sooner! It is very detailed and will be of great help to me. I wish you the best of luck with your own hull planking. Please document it well for my benefit.

 

"I glued the false deck in place then planked it - it seems the logical thing to do." - do you mean the gun deck? This was my concern since the instructions say to plank it before installing. If I do that, I'm sure planking will be easier but I imagine the deck will be stiffer and harder to install, and vice versa if I plank in situ.

 

As you say, I am endeavouring to be as cautious as possible with my build. My biggest fear is realizing that I've made an error after several steps of gluing/painting. I am trying to read all of the relevant build logs and ask a myriad of questions. Ultimately, I have to recognize that I am not in a position to make many of the modifications/improvements that others have done, and that "perfect is the enemy of good", especially for a first model. In any case, I'm sure I'll be happy enough to have a completed ship when all is said and done.

 

-starlight

[Richard44]

19 minutes ago, starlight said:

 

"I glued the false deck in place then planked it - it seems the logical thing to do." - do you mean the gun deck? This was my concern since the instructions say to plank it before installing. If I do that, I'm sure planking will be easier but I imagine the deck will be stiffer and harder to install, and vice versa if I plank in situ.

Yes, I  meant the gun deck (it's also called the upper deck, just to confuse things). The false deck to me is the ply that you install then cover with planks. It's not to difficult to plank when it's in situ. Put it in place, without gluing, and try putting a few planks in place (no glue) to see how you go.

 

Cheers

 

[Richard44]

Hi Starlight,

 

If you haven't already thought of it, you need to consider now how you will display the finished ship. If just on a cradle, you probably don't need to do anything, but if on pedestals, a steel (or perhaps brass) rod through the pedestals and into the false keel is recommended so as to give support and rigidity to the display. To do this, you need to drill suitable holes through the pedestals and the actual keel and into the false keel. It's far easier to do that now rather than later. Small pieces of scrap ply glued both sides of the false keel will strengthen this in the path of the drillhole.

 

Cheers

[Richard44]

3 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Dont use steel - it rusts !

Of course it does - how silly of me. 🙁

[starlight]

On 10/19/2020 at 4:20 AM, Richard44 said:

Hi Starlight,

 

If you haven't already thought of it, you need to consider now how you will display the finished ship. If just on a cradle, you probably don't need to do anything, but if on pedestals, a steel (or perhaps brass) rod through the pedestals and into the false keel is recommended so as to give support and rigidity to the display. To do this, you need to drill suitable holes through the pedestals and the actual keel and into the false keel. It's far easier to do that now rather than later. Small pieces of scrap ply glued both sides of the false keel will strengthen this in the path of the drillhole.

 

Cheers

 

21 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Dont use steel - it rusts ! Brass is the thing - and it bends a bit if you do drop the build

 

have a look at this maybe   Fly/Peggy pedestals.

 I found since that brass rod gives more flexibility in use and positioning

 

Thank you both for the advice. The kit instructions mention drilling mounting holes for pedestals after the hull planking is completed. Based on other build logs this seems much too late, especially if using a captive nut inside the false keel.

 

I was considering just using two small cradle blocks, either CNC milled brass or, failing that, 3D printed plastic. On that note, I have used some wood-PLA filament which sands and stains quite well. Using a cradle in lieu of pedestals would allow me to more easily remove the ship from the display case if necessary.

 

Let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks.

[starlight]

Small progress update:

 

Glued the gun-deck to the bulkhead/keel assembly.

 

Assembled the hatch coamings/gratings based somewhat on Blue Ensign's method for their build of HMS Pegasus. Specifically:

• I copied the orientation of the gratings with the longitudinal timbers running unbroken and slightly proud of the lateral ones.
• I attempted to imitate the half-tenon joints Blue Ensign used instead of the miter joints in the instructions. Emphasis on "attempted", as my fit-up is much poorer in comparison.

Some key differences:

• My hatches are flat instead of cambered.
• I installed my gratings slightly recessed into the coamings (as opposed to flush or proud). I don't have any historical reason for this... I just thought they looked better that way.

 

 

Here is the deck with the various fittings test-fitted into place:

 

 

Hoping to get started with deck planking in the next week or so.

 

-starlight

 

[Gregory]

13 minutes ago, starlight said:

• I installed my gratings slightly recessed into the coamings (as opposed to flush or proud). I don't have any historical reason for this... I just thought they looked better that way.

 

Then, your little sailors will be tripping over your recessed gratings..😁

[Richard44]

33 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

You can pedestal mount just using two "prongs" without the captive nut.  If you drill the hole just undersize against the thread size then you can actually screw the bolt or threaded rod into the hole quite firmly.

 

To make this more secure, particularly into MDF, drip thin CA into the hole first. Be careful. Let it dry thoroughly, then screw the bolt in. The CA hardens the wood.

[starlight]

On 10/20/2020 at 4:14 PM, Gregory said:

Then, your little sailors will be tripping over your recessed gratings..😁

 

Hm, thank you for the information, Gregory. I did not know that sailors walked across the gratings. It seems like it would be uncomfortable, especially in bare feet.

 

I have reworked the hatches so that the gratings are now flush with the coamings.

[starlight]

On 10/20/2020 at 4:13 PM, SpyGlass said:

You can pedestal mount just using two "prongs" without the captive nut.  If you drill the hole just undersize against the thread size then you can actually screw the bolt or threaded rod into the hole quite firmly.

 I was just thinking it may still be possible still to do a captive nut "on the maindeck" if you can adequately conceal it - as I am  doing with Speedy.

Just heaved my Fly/Peggy plans and I am having a look  - humm yes the placing i prefer would give top access  to nuts - one around the capstan  and one under the forrard  hatch but may just be  toooo fiddly

 

On 10/20/2020 at 4:51 PM, Richard44 said:

To make this more secure, particularly into MDF, drip thin CA into the hole first. Be careful. Let it dry thoroughly, then screw the bolt in. The CA hardens the wood.

 

Thanks again for the advice on the pedestals. If I'm not mistaken, I have until just before starting the hull planking to choose a mounting method, so I will most likely procrastinate on that decision for a while yet. I will however keep what you both have said in mind.

[Gregory]

6 hours ago, starlight said:

I have reworked the hatches so that the gratings are now flush with the coamings.

A lot of kits  ( not yours ), have gratings ( the openings )  that are way over-sized to the point that a foot would likely pass through.

[starlight]

Hello everyone,

 

I have been getting to grips with the deck planking over the last few days. Most of my decisions were based on builds from Blue Ensign, aliluke, Richard44, Dfell, mugje, and probably some others whom I have neglected to mention. I'm hoping to get some feedback before proceeding further. Some key points:

• The first thing I did was reinforce the deck ply along the centerline by gluing some strips of 1mm scrap plywood underneath. Previously the two halves of the deck tended to spring up and down and rub against each other. Now the deck feels quite solid.
• The majority of other modelers do not use the kit-supplied Tanganyika, and probably for good reason. The loose grain makes it very difficult to work with and it frays easily. Using a different material is not an option for me however, so I will try to do the best I can with it.
• I decided to use a king plank (not sure if it can be called by that name as it is the exact same as all the other planks). I think it at least helps to add rigidity to the centerline seam.
• I will use straight planks without butt joints along the centerline based on Blue Ensign's method. Outside of this area I would like to try either a 3-butt or a 4-butt shift but I am a bit out of my depth on how to plan the deck for it.
• I simulate the caulking with a black marker applied to one edge of each plank. The lines are not very clean, partly due to my own lack of skill and also the low quality of the Tanganyika.
• I will not be doing top and butt planking.
• I would also like to add a capstan step and mast partners (at least for the mainmast). I haven't figured out the profiles and dimensions for these yet.

Anyhow, here are some images of what I have so far. I'd appreciate any advice. Thanks.

 

 

 

-starlight

[starlight]

Some more deck planking progress. I added a capstan step and a main mast partner.

 

[TimC]

Looks like we’re around the same portion of the build.  Yours is looking wonderful so far and the planking looks very clean.  I like your idea of the capstan step and the mast partner!

 

best

tim

[Richard44]

Nicely done Starlight.

[starlight]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:58 PM, SpyGlass said:

 I am ashamed of myself - to see you doing details which will sit almost totally unseen.  When Iam just too idle /lazy  to do such nice work out of site - but you will know they are there . Just a check the lower capstan is a tight fit under the beam does the step not raise it a little too much ?

 

SpyGlass,

 

Thanks for your kind words. Perhaps in future builds I will allow myself to cut corners, but as this is my first build, I am using the "out of sight" details as an opportunity to practice and make mistakes. Certainly I am now more confident about planking the upper decks.

 

Regarding the capstan, there is indeed interference with the upper deck beam. It seems this has been noted on other build logs as well, especially if a dowel is added to join the upper and lower capstans. I will also have to file away some material on that deck beam.

 

-starlight 

[starlight]

At this stage I am more or less done with the planking of the gun deck, for now. Some self-reflection:

• I ended up using a 4-butt shift pattern (as opposed to a 3-butt shift), especially because I was using the 3mm width Tanganyika from the kit, rather than wider planks as most others use. The 4-butt shift agrees better with narrower planks in my opinion.
• Special thanks to Richard44 for giving me excellent advice on the margin planking. Since I only had the 3mm strips to work with and I wanted to make curved margin planks of at least that width, I simply glued two planks side-by-side without marking any caulking. I then cut this 6mm plank to the correct profile using a paper template. The seam is not too visible and for low curvatures the grain of the wood is mostly aligned. In any case, I think this method is vastly easier than the suggestion in the kit instructions, which say to soak the planks, make cutouts along the inner radius, and then bend them.
• An issue I experienced using marker for the caulking: when marking the butt joints, the ink has a tendency to bleed into the planks because of the orientation of the wood grain (the ends promote much more capillary action than the sides). The trick, I found, is to make a single, quick, confident pass of the marker.

 

Comments and advice are more than welcome. I hope to start the gunport strips this weekend.

 

-starlight