USS Gwin (DD-433) by Egilman - DML/Dragon - 1/350th scale - PLASTIC

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, Canute said:

EG, what's his link/address?

Sorry, I should have included it in the last...

 

http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder1.html

 

Email him and he does respond soon.... (same day when I did) link to e-mail is on the page...

[popeye the sailor]

Billing Boats sell what they call 'pick 'n place tools........same thing what you have there......a poke stick with a sticky thing on the end.  all mine,  the sticky thing came off,  so now I use them to position decals.   not recommended around sawdust   

[Canute]

EG, thanks. Getting some.

[Egilman]

On 12/17/2020 at 3:39 PM, Canute said:

EG, thanks. Getting some.

Well worth the price Ken....

 

Mine arrived today.....

 

I like the new bottles makes dropping a bit in a cup real easy.....

 

I finished off the foc'sle furniture with it, applying a bit with a needle and setting the part into the glue... 

 

Works like a charm, enough grip to hold it in place with enough set time to allow correcting it's placement.... It's hold comes in about 5 minutes and full cure on 30, so be careful handling when newly placed parts are present... Getting ready to mount the main deck Bollards......

 

This glue, and the pickup tool, makes placing those tiny parts EASY PEASY...... I suspect the same with the PE.....

Edited December 22, 2020 by Egilman

[Old Collingwood]

Really nice work,   certainly enjoying  your build brother.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

29 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Really nice work,   certainly enjoying  your build brother.

 

OC.

Well, lets wait till I'm closer to the finish before we judge the work ok, I"m still not so sure...  It's makes me very happy that you're enjoying it brother, helps the motivation a great deal....

 

Thank you....

[Egilman]

Well another small update, coming along slow but making progress... (already know some things I would do differently)

 

Main deck details, they have to go on now cause with the superstructures in place I wouldn't be able to fit them properly....

Pardon the pics they aren't the best quality but they give the idea.....

 

K Guns and reloads.... (the Gwin during this period did not have K gun loading racks so the reloads were mounted to stanchions where the davit could pick them and drop them into the launcher)

And the rest of the deck details....

Still need to paint them, probably should have painted them first before gluing them on. I left the stern smoke projectors and depth charge racks off for closer to the end of the build, the fantail is pretty clear on this ship so later shouldn't represent a problem... Fewer things to knock off or break....

 

And I'm absolutely learning to love this Gators Grip glue... It sticks to painted plastic!!! Solid as well.....

 

Well some detail painting, all those details have a base color of 5-O Ocean Grey, with the flat surfaces 20B deck Blue, time for the 00000 liner to come out.... (I haven't used one in over 20 years, I hope I remember how)

 

Onward...

Edited December 27, 2020 by Egilman

[Old Collingwood]

She is making good progress brother,  and I like the idea of  working on the fiddly deck fittings first before the superstructors go on,  more room to do waht you have to do - paint etc.

 

OC.

[Landlubber Mike]

Looking great, nice job!  I have some of that Gator's Glue but tried using it to glue tiny hairlike PE on a 1/700 destroyer.  Wasn't too successful, but maybe I need a little more practice.  One nice thing about it is that you can use a wet brush to remove any excess paint.  That did work for me pretty well.

[Old Collingwood]

Can gaitors  be watered down when used say on handrails  - would that still work?

 

OC.

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Wasn't too successful, but maybe I need a little more practice.  One nice thing about it is that you can use a wet brush to remove any excess paint.  That did work for me pretty well.

Keep plugging Mike, it works great here..... the parts in the pic were done with the thin version, applied with a needle to the point I want it to be then place the part. Go slow, it isn't instant grab like cement or CA but in five minutes it take and in 30 is solid enough to not move... I'm impressed with it....

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, Old Collingwood said:

Can gaitors  be watered down when used say on handrails  - would that still work?

 

OC.

They don't recommend it brother, and from using the thin version rather than the standard version, I've had no need to thin it... and it dries completely clear.....

[Lt. Biggles]

I remember reading through the first few pages of this build ages ago and learning a lot of history and things I’d never known! Good to see the build is well underway! I’ve a feeling it’s going to be a very accurate model!! Good stuff mate

[Old Collingwood]

I have an idea  (ups careful OC)  for when you do your deck railings  - how about if you made a very fine shallow gouge out on the deck edge between the hull and where the deck sits, it might help the railings adhere better and be stronger, I had considered doing this on my Warspite - but after i had fitted them.

You could use one of those panel line scribers.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

9 hours ago, Lt. Biggles said:

I remember reading through the first few pages of this build ages ago and learning a lot of history and things I’d never known! Good to see the build is well underway! I’ve a feeling it’s going to be a very accurate model!! Good stuff mate

Thank you my friend!!! It's appreciated very much....

 

I do like to research and I believe that is a big part of building models is to learn about the history of your subject....  Like last week, I learned why the Gwin wasn't at Midway till after the battle was over.... After the raid, she went along with TF 16 on it's aborted run to Coral Sea battle. When TF 16 arrived back at Pearl, they were already in preparation for the coming battle of Midway. While TF 16 was getting ready to go to Midway, they were rushing men and equipment to Midway in any way they could.... We all know of the valiant Marine Buffalo Squadron that was sent to Midway and their heroic sacrifice there. How they got there was aided by the USS Gwin who upon arrival at Pearl was immediately assigned to escort the USS Kitty Hawk AKV-1 who was tasked with rushing the Buffalo's & Marines to Midway the last week of May returning to Pearl the day before the battle and immediately turning around to rejoin TG 16.2 where, upon arrival, was assigned to assist the Yorktown in her struggle to survive.... She had repair parties aboard the Yorktown and was standing to when the Hammond was torpedoed and the Yorktown was dealt her death blow.... She carried over 100 survivors from the two ships back to Pearl... My hole in her movements, (how she got to Midway and why she wasn't in the actual battle) has been filled....

I was researching the USS Kitty Hawk's camouflage on another forum...  This process, looking for one answer leads to another you were looking for on a completely different subject, never ceases to amaze me....

 

I find that having a good understanding of what the subject was involved in helps with rendering the accuracy of the model immensely... (at least getting it close)

 

Again thank you.....

Edited December 28, 2020 by Egilman

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

I have an idea  (ups careful OC)  for when you do your deck railings  - how about if you made a very fine shallow gouge out on the deck edge between the hull and where the deck sits, it might help the railings adhere better and be stronger, I had considered doing this on my Warspite - but after i had fitted them.

You could use one of those panel line scribers.

 

OC.

Sounds like a good idea brother, it would have to be a very small groove, just enough to lay the glue in and set the railings.... Thankfully I don't have to do that with this model.... It is so finely molded that they included the scuppers along the main deck... Scuppers are the deck edge waterways to aid in the deck draining and directing water off the deck... This class of ships needed them cause they were very "wet" ships especially in a moderate or higher seaway.... Dragon was very thoughtful in molding them onto the main deck part edge, (the molds for this kit are outstanding) the focs'l didn't have this scupper but it's edges were rounded at a 15" radius at the focs'l break, narrowing down to a 4" radius at the bow.... The focs'l deck part is molded so tight that is leaves a slight edge right along the top part of the radius from the break to the stem... Perfect for laying the PE rail against without showing a glue line.... The Bollards are mounted to the edge of the deck and the Sheaves attach to the break in the hull which means the railing runs between them, bollards to the inside and sheaves to the outside... So, we have an edge to glue against, and parts that will act as supports to hold the rail vertical designed right into the kit.....

 

Did I say that this was a very very well designed kit? Makes it a slow build yes, with all the fine parts, but a very well thought out build sequence as far as locating the details when it is time to add them. (although the instruction layout makes it quite confusing sometimes and requires a bit of study to understand everything that's going on) It's a challenging build, I probably should have started with something simpler like my Banner Arizona, but I'm here now so I'll do the best I can.... Besides I've learned and devised a few new techniques along the way...

 

Keep on having ideas brother, (this was a good one) it's what makes us better modelers.....

[Egilman]

Ok, Time for another update.... Research this time...

 

This is a pic of what I'm modeling, I'm trying to come as close as I can to this pic, a moment in time so to speak....

 

I'm using the Dragon Uss Livermore kit which represents her late 1942 armament fit of 8 20mm guns or 7 20mm's and a 1.1" chicago organ...

She has to be converted to a 1941 King Board modified 12 .50 Cal MG weapons fit...

 

For this the Kraken models '41 USS Kearney update set for this kit has been purchased, it give me the 6 MG positions on the after deckhouse and 2 positions on the pilothouse roof...

 

But the kit is set up for all 20mm's which means the two 20 mm on the O1 deck level behind the #2 turret and the two 20mm's outboard the aft stack have to be replaced as well....

 

The kit parts.....

The 20mm tubs have to come off.....

This is what they should look like....

The red circled splinter shield in the foreground does not overhang the bulkhead underneath and is the same size as the ones on the pilothouse roof so part A8 has to be modified... Looking back down the side of the ship you see the midship MG position next to the aft stack, the splinter shield is the same size as the two on the fore part of the ship and doesn't extend as far out as the 20mm tubs do on part B1... They will have to be modified as well to make a proper King Board modified USS Gwin.....

 

Going to try and duplicate the splinter shields from the Kraken update set as this will give me the size I need.... And hopefully I don't screw up the parts when I modify them.....

 

More later...

[Canute]

Delicate work, EG. Proceed slowly and it should be well.

[Old Collingwood]

The 20mm  shields/tubs  Pontos do them  in resin, nice thin walled  jobbies.

 

OC.

[Roger Pellett]

Anyone know what happened to the guy aboard South Dakota with the 3/4in bolt?

[lmagna]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

Anyone know what happened to the guy aboard South Dakota with the 3/4in bolt?

Knowing what the South Dakota endured mostly because of that individual I suspect his life was not very enjoyable after the Court Martial. That is if the story about the chief engineer hard wiring the circuit is true. While it is pointed out in the South Dakota damage report, https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/w/war-damage-reports/uss-south-dakota-bb57-war-damage-report-no57.html

 

There seems to be very little if any human error assessment suggested. The report states that the initial loss was caused by the shock of #3 turret firing causing a number of automatic breakers to fail. Manual attempts at restoring power were expected and needed but it was still over a minute before partial power was restored.  If I understand that portion of the report they are placing the majority of the blame on the design rather than on any individual.

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

Anyone know what happened to the guy aboard South Dakota with the 3/4in bolt?

He was allowed to resign his post, in lieu of a CM, it was kept quiet and out of most of the basic reports made public.... (I read that somewhere years ago, but for the life of me I can't remember where, my mind says NARA but I really cannot remember for sure)

Edited December 31, 2020 by Egilman

[Egilman]

23 minutes ago, lmagna said:

There seems to be very little if any human error assessment suggested.

Yeah they assigned it to mechanical failure due to blast shock.... Problem is there are three other battleships with that exact same design in the exact same location that never had the same failure from gunfire blast.... They claim that the mains were wired shut, (they were, it is what caused the mains fuses to blow) and that is as far as they would admit... But the damage was so extensive she had to go all the way back to Norfolk for repair which took almost six months... There is a lot not being said in that damage report..... I was reading anecdotal yard stories that a lot of the wiring in the gunnery and communications systems were puddles of copper with bits of scorched insulation inside miles and miles of conduit.... electrical/electronic equipment that had to be completely replaced, equipments that was top secret and were built by hand... It was a real mess...

 

Also one of the inadvertent unfortunate things that came out of it, was that the South Dakota and Washington crews from that battle forward didn't have a lot of love for each other.... A perfect example of what lack of communication can do to a situation... The SD crew thought the Washington disappeared from the fight and left them high and dry to take most of the punishment from the enemy, (what really happened was an inexperienced command group in charge that turned the wrong way illuminating their own ship to the enemy... But the crew didn't know that... To the Washington's crew, the SD turned tail and ran from a fight after firing just a few salvos leaving the Washington unprotected and alone to press home an attack against a superior force.... They didn't know that the SD took a pounding from 6",8" and 14" gunfire that caused extensive damage to her superstructure and killed some 50 sailors and lost all ability to return fire, that she was nothing but a target and retreat was the proper decision and nothing Admiral Lee said repeatedly to the crew of the Washington would change that underlying thought....

 

For years afterwards there was tension between the two crews that were there...

[lmagna]

I suppose I would have to tread up on the history and aftermath of the battle far more exhaustively than I have done to date. I feel I have done this in regards to the ABDA era of WWII, but not so much on a number of the other battles that followed. All of the accounts I have read to date all say that the first salvo from #3 caused the electrical failure but the attempts at restoring power are what exasperated it instead. To be honest, I have never heard of the story of the animosity between the two crews or of any question about who may have been left alone. All accounts do state that the SD was illuminated to the Japanese when she chose a course that put the burning American destroyers behind her illuminating her to the Japanese fleet and making her the primary target, especially to the well placed cruisers. Most of her 26+ hits were from 6 and 8" shells.

 

Call it what you may but I always considered this battle to be an example of what these battleships were capable of in both the best scenario and the worst. One ship suffered a fate that could be compared to that of the HMS Hood and Prince Of Wales against the Bismarck and Prince Eugene where almost anything that could go wrong, did go wrong. The South Dakota experienced an almost complete loss of firepower, gun handling and communications ability while receiving 26 hits at point blank range mostly from major caliber guns. Yet she was still able to maintain position and speed for the most part and even deliver occasional if ineffective return fire. How much longer this could have continued is a matter of speculation, but compares quite well against the last battle of the Bismarck and how long she was able to return fire. Four salvoes pretty much finished her as a fighting entity. It took much more to sink her but those four salvoes allowed all that followed. The South Dakota was able to leave the battle under her own power and while considerably damaged was never in any danger of sinking.

 

The other American ship in the engagement, a sister ship to the South Dakota was literally on the other side of the coin. She was mechanically sound, had been able to remain mostly hidden from the Japanese and had a working radar with a Captain who was unafraid to rely on it. In a matter of just a few minutes Admiral Lee and the Washington almost totally disabled the Kirishima and inflicted enough damage that the Kirishima capsized and sank a couple of hours later. Admittedly the surviving Japanese ships could have finished her off with torpedoes but it is fairly clear that she was too damaged to save.

 

So while one sister showed just how much damage this class of ship could absorb on a bad day the other ship showed just how much damage it could hand out on a good one. 

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, lmagna said:

Call it what you may but I always considered this battle to be an example of what these battleships were capable of in both the best scenario and the worst.

Absolutely brother, although different classes of ships, they had the same guns, the same fire control system, the same power plant, same armor etc. etc.....

 

Their capabilities were almost identical.....

 

As far as the crews having a jaded eye towards each other, some of the personal stories that made it as far as official recording seem to want to lay the wreath of heroics at the feet of the SD's command staff and such trying to get the actual commanders to forget the immense tactical blunder the conn made at the opening of the battle.... They generally run along the lines of the Washington wouldn't have had such a spectacular showing if it wasn't for the SD's deliberate sacrifices setting them up for her..... Basically saying that the blunder was a intentional act of bravery and the SD should get the credit for being the hero of the day....

 

I'm sure my friend given your experiences, you have heard people trying to explain an absolutely bonehead move as the right and heroic move/action to superiors.... I know I have.... (and monday morning quarterbacking always enjoys a much clearer line of sight)

 

And like all great heroic moments the history behind the "official" history, (the "monday morning" after story) tell little bits of the story a bit different.....

 

The ship constructors got into the act as well claiming that the South Dakota, the newest battleship in the navy at the time, was rushed into service before well before she had a proper fitting out period.... as a result, when time came to perform in combat, she had problems.... (namely the balky #3 turret traverse) Much like the Prince Of Wales still having workmen aboard in the Bismarck example....  She had, I think it was, a 4 month working up period after commissioning, insufficient time to work out all the kinks... Normally a battleship usually works up to fighting trim over nine a month to a year period before being sent into service.... (the Washington's workup period was 14 months, the Indiana's was a year) It was claimed in some channels that she was rushed into service too quick...... Those arguments make a lot of sense given the SD's performance, but are not part of the "official" public record as well... They quietly suppressed those stories and claims and got to work repairing her and returning her to service as airing all that info and investigation was viewed as counter productive.... (the arguments went like, "I understand all that, but we are here, how we got here doesn't matter, where do we go from here" was the order of the day and a big part of the military mindset in war) But every battleship sent into service after the SD, got a full year of trials before being sent into action.... That result of the battle experience to me tells the tale....

 

My opinion, they sent the SD into battle too early, much like the POW being ineffective during the Bismarck action for the same reason... They were pressed for ships especially battleships given the time it was taking to rebuild the Big Five into front line battleships, (which they never would be) and the old battleships were not capable of modern front line action... So a decision was made that put front line operations over tried and proven construction doctrine, and it eventually caught up to them and caused a fiasco which is another thing they wanted to keep quiet.... There is a lot to study about what transpired and it is hard not to make the argument that the SD's experience was pre-ordained by an administrative decision almost a year before the battle ever took place... 

 

But like I said, it is not part of the "Official", "Public" historical record, but it is all there in the official archives.....

[Egilman]

12 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

The 20mm  shields/tubs  Pontos do them  in resin, nice thin walled  jobbies.

 

OC.

They are gorgeous OC, (pricey as well) but I'm installing .50 cal splinter shields/tubs, they are visibly smaller and in slightly different but noticeable positions.... Hence the need to change them.....

[Old Collingwood]

7 minutes ago, Egilman said:

They are gorgeous OC, (pricey as well) but I'm installing .50 cal splinter shields/tubs, they are visibly smaller and in slightly different but noticeable positions.... Hence the need to change them.....

Looking forward to seeing them brother.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

On 12/30/2020 at 4:40 AM, Canute said:

Delicate work, EG. Proceed slowly and it should be well.

Yes careful cutting is needed... I have received news that the needed AM splinter shields will be on the way in a week or so, after christmas backorders are done, very nice resin prints....

 

So I went ahead and cut the parts getting ready for the replacement parts....

 

A razor saw is your friend for this kind of work, unfortunately this puts the build sequence on hold for a bit... So I went and bought the HD foam for the water base from the local big box store...

 

And will start the process of figuring out the scene...

 

More on the scene (based upon that April 18th pic), the history of what the ship was doing at that point, and the known weather conditions at the time....

 

Onwards.....

[Canute]

Inciteful discussion of the battle, gentlemen. Thanks.  👍

 

We sit and wait on the wayward delivery systems.

[Egilman]

2 hours ago, Canute said:

We sit and wait on the wayward delivery systems.

Yep, that is becoming the new norm isn't it......

 

Oh, and for some reason I just remembered to check in the workshop to see if I still have some butane fuel for the torch, It's required to make the sea base...

It's been a long time since I've played with fire....

Edited December 31, 2020 by Egilman