HMS Kent F78 by RGL - FINISHED - Trumpeter - 1/350 - PLASTIC - Type 23 Frigate

[RGL]

Weathering. Now this is off a naval FB page, this is a 2020 US warship, that is 3 months out of referb, and spent 60 out of 90 days in port. I’d be pretty upset about the quality of the paint. And happily continue to beat up my ships!!!!

[Egilman]

23 hours ago, RGL said:

Weathering. Now this is off a naval FB page, this is a 2020 US warship, that is 3 months out of referb, and spent 60 out of 90 days in port. I’d be pretty upset about the quality of the paint. And happily continue to beat up my ships!!!!

If that's what they are today, go for it....

 

I prefer WWII ships anyway, they have a cleaner look..... It probably isn't the paint, but the quality of the application.... The undercoats don't look like they were scraped or sandblasted at all....

 

The Navy has really changed since the WWII days....

[lmagna]

33 minutes ago, Egilman said:

The Navy has really changed since the WWII days....

 

I think there could be a possible answer for that.

 

The Navy, and I think this could be said of all navies of WWII, found that paint burns, and heavy layers of paint burns even better. So the best way to cut down on uncontrolled flames not caused by the original cause was to eliminate as many layers of paint as possible. So rather than paint over worn or rusting places they would either wait for full dock side facilities where it could be done right from the metal up, or scrape all excess paint as possible before repainting, AND keep the layers thin. I could be wrong but it seems that all of these worn and torn finishes we are seeing in these pictures of modern day vessels, both British and American, could be because of this attempt at keeping the finish as thin as possible rather than to just slop away with a brush as in older days. I could be wrong, it's just a thought. 

 

Another story that I think I read at some point or another was about a ship caught in a sand storm in the Mediterranean and it stripped all of the paint from the ship down to the bare metal. Just something I read and I don't know where or if it was true but as a number of these ships are operating in the middle east this could be another possibility.

[BANYAN]

Imagina, you are quite correct (from an RAN perspective anyway) - Not only to keep the fuel loading down, but also you would be surprised how heavy that paint is.  The RAN collected the paint taken off one ship while in refit and the collective weight was considerable.

 

The particular photo Greg showed may be the result of a couple of things.  Firstly, the poor paint adhesion definitely shows poor surface preparation by the crew when 'pretty coats' were being applied (probably after a long deployment and to look good coming into harbour/home port).  The other may be the result of a long refit (docking period) where the hull (paint) has yet to be addressed.  In a long refit, the ship can be decommissioned, or 'handed over' out of navy control to the the dockyard.  The dockyard will not waste time in keeping the paintwork looking pretty especially if it is contracted to provide the ship back in a fully restored condition, and this may be one of the last things done (rather than ruining good paintwork with welding, scrapes etc incurred during the refit).

 

cheers

 

Pat

[RGL]

See, got you talking! Excellent. 

[lmagna]

The weight of paint. Obvious factor on almost any ship............... And one I had not considered! Now that you brought it up.

 

Now that you mention it, I remember being told by a guy I know who paints 747s here in the Everett Boeing plant, that the main consideration in painting these planes is the weight of the paint. He says the thickness of the paint on the average car is considerably thicker than on virtually all modern aircraft.

[RGL]

So hand painting, rattle can then airbrush, unfortunately I’m not good enough to use a paintbrush. 

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, BANYAN said:

but also you would be surprised how heavy that paint is.

Read enough design reports on the US Navy and spring fashions to know it was a serious consideration for the BuC&R and a calculation made with every ship design.... Weight has always been a serious consideration vs weapons vs structure.

 

Like the Gleaves class I'm building a 1700 tonner, the paint alone limited the amount of splinter shielding and then the antiaircraft weaponry..... but of course they really wanted a 2500 tonner but were treaty limited.... Most of the time, when a yard had control of a ship, they would sandblast down to bare metal and do a full surface prep before a repaint.... Which would last them about 4 months, after that, the crew was responsible for keeping it looking nice and shipshape..... Prewar, Captains were known to have lost their commands for failing to keep up their ships appearance..... And all it took was a comment from a senior command officer to move the gears.... One of the reasons US navy ships always looked in good condition... (and ship captains hated 5-D paint, it faded out and chalked up so fast that they would have the crew forming almost standing paint details to keep up)

 

Even throughout WWII they still managed to keep their ships in reasonable shape paintwise.... 

 

I have to agree, the paint in those pics greg posted has the look of a hastily applied job.... The paint is peeling in sheets, that's definitely a lack of proper surface prep....

 

Greg, build your ships as dirty as you like, they are your ships.... last I'll say about the matter....

[RGL]

Explain chalking up, I’m interested 

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, RGL said:

Explain chalking up, I’m interested 

Paint chalking is where the paint is under intense UV light, (sunlight) and the pigments start to fade out and the carrier starts breaking down......

What it looks like is faded and almost pastel look to the painted surface color...... The surface itself in real life starts to fall apart the whitish bleached out pigment separates from the carrier which results in a whitish chalky surface tinted by what remains of the pigment in the remaining carrier that hasn't completely broken down yet..... If you rub your hand over the surface the bleached out pigment will brush off and of course leave your hand surface covered in the white powder.... (almost like powdered gypsum or heavy grained talcum powder) The surface where you brushed your hand over it will darken color wise as you have revealed more unbleached pigment.....

 

Over time, this will turn the surface completely white.... (and it will completely fall off the surface)  Modern paints usually take a few years to reach this state, this will happen with ALL paints over time..... Nature of the beast, true epoxies generally don't do this.....

 

Unfortunately, the US Navy found out that 5-D paint, (which was blacker than black) in a heavy marine environment, would arrive at this state in four months.... It would start showing whitish patches and the paint would fade to a dark grey necessitating the repainting of the ships often, the ships were required to requisition and carry enough paint to have the crew completely repaint the hull at least once.....

 

5-S Sea Blue I believe also had this problem..... I do not know how they solved it with 5-N Navy Blue, (same base paint and tinting medium) but it seemed to last a lot longer, some ships it lasted for over a year.

It would fade but retained it's color for a lot longer.....

 

But that's what chalking was....

[popeye the sailor]

I believe it was back in the 80's,  that Ford had a problem with their truck line.  trucks painted in Canada suffered from peeling paint on the hoods and roofs,  due to the paint not adhering properly to the primer base coat.  odd that those areas were the worst affected areas.

[Egilman]

It's why they developed polyurethane clear coats to protect the alkyd enamels underneath, but it didn't stop the enamels from deteriorating... eventually they developed urethane paints and from that powder coatings both of which are nearly indestructible....

 

Denis, they first blamed it on acid rain, cause that is where it showed up first, the acid in the rain was only a harbinger of what was to come, the acid weakened the surface cohesion of the paint carrier allowing the UV rays to attack the adhesion much quicker, eventually they started seeing it in the desert climates with no acid rain as well, that's when they learned they had to come up with something new....

Interesting that it coincided with the removal of lead additives to the paint, lead in paint was a compound to absorb UV rays and allow the carrier to last longer, much like preservatives in food....

 

Of course no one knew about the absolute toxic effect of lead.....

[RGL]

Amazing. So much knowledge. I’m interstate for a week so nothing doing on the build. I did pick up a 1/350 Soya and etch that turned on locally on FB marketplace cheaply so another for the stash. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by RGL

[RGL]

Well, came back early to avoid a COVID outbreak in Sydney so I’m not locked in for 2 weeks. 

 

I drew up and then etched in some weld lines, then plating panels similar to the real thing. This way I can first paint a black boot strap then paint the lower him and subsequently Paul am an the upper hull

[RGL]

So next year, this looks tasty , group build anyone? 

[Egilman]

53 minutes ago, RGL said:

So next year, this looks tasty , group build anyone? 

Looks very tasty, but Like Lou, I don't know if I could handle her as an AVP... (seeing as she was the first aircraft carrier we lost in WWII)

Edited December 20, 2020 by Egilman

[lmagna]

It's funny that you bring this ship up at this time Greg.

 

I was just talking to Landlubber Mike the other day and he says that this type ship may be his dream build especially in it's later seaplane support role in early WWII. He was thinking of the Japanese equivalent and I was going to recommend the Langley, I'm pretty certain that he will be chiming in soon. I'll point him here.

Edited December 20, 2020 by lmagna

[RGL]

There is a IJN equivalent which is rarer than hens teeth and twice as expensive when it pops its’ head up. There is a Trumpy PE set which goes with it too. I’m wanting to do an Ark Royal as my next really big build but I’m thinking by Mid 2021 this should be out and about 

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, RGL said:

I’m thinking by Mid 2021 this should be out and about

It's already out there brother....

https://www.amazon.com/Trumpeter-Navy-Aircraft-Carrier-Langley/dp/B07YSJYMW6

 

Trumpeter also has an update set...

https://freetimehobbies.com/1-350-trumpeter-uss-langley-cv-1-upgrade-set/

 

As does Eduard...

https://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/edu53254.htm

 

The other part of my issue is getting approval from the war department, right around 200.00 just to get your foot in the door...

 

[RGL]

No, I’m aware of CV-1, this is the next iteration of her as AV-3, her final configuration before lost in 1942. Published this month by Trumpy on their website. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by RGL

[Egilman]

19 minutes ago, RGL said:

....this is the next iteration of her as AV-3, her final configuration before lost in 1942. Published this month by Trumpy on their website

Well can't stop them from maximizing their money, but it is the same kit, with mostly the same sprues.....

 

I've been thinking about CV-1 for some time now...  (but I wish that Trumpeter had put the PE in the kit rather than making it a cost+ upgrade)

 

Her last mission as an AVP was carrying P-40's to Java, which would be a nice look for her....

[RGL]

It’s very different so it would be a nice build 

[lmagna]

1 hour ago, Egilman said:

 

I've been thinking about CV-1 for some time now...  (but I wish that Trumpeter had put the PE in the kit rather than making it a cost+ upgrade)

It would probably amount to much the same thing. A deluxe kit with all of the PE and wooden deck would probably be as much or more than when purchased separately, but you would have to fork it over all at once. Look at the cost of the 1/72 platinum edition of the Flower Class Corvette a few years ago. They were twice as expensive or more than the standard model at the time, and I think the PE included was not as extensive as the after market stuff that was available for the same kit.

 

I believe that in the case of the Trumpeter CV-1 PE available it is going to replace all of the extensive under deck girder assemblies. THAT is a lot of PE. I see no reason why it will not be the same for the AV-3 version as well.

 

I will not be building either version of the Langley as I am not a big bird farm fan, but if I was to build it, I am pretty certain I would build her as she was in the end when she was placed into a compromised position and sent in unnecessary circles until it was certain that she would be lost without a chance of achieving her last mission. ABDA was a total mess and a almost a tragic waste of men and ships. But they consistently kept coming back and giving all until there were almost none left to give, including the Langley.  

Edited December 20, 2020 by lmagna

[Canute]

I'm with you there, Lou. Many of the ABDA leaders were pretty wishy-washy and they sent off any  who showed signs of opposing their actions. Throwing away good combat forces in fruitless close convoy escorts and similar wasteful missions was downright criminal. Many brave men were lost doing them.

[Landlubber Mike]

10 hours ago, lmagna said:

It's funny that you bring this ship up at this time Greg.

 

I was just talking to Landlubber Mike the other day and he says that this type ship may be his dream build especially in it's later seaplane support role in early WWII. He was thinking of the Japanese equivalent and I was going to recommend the Langley, I'm pretty certain that he will be chiming in soon. I'll point him here.

 

Lou, many thanks for mentioning this to me.  Greg, if you'll have me, I'd really love to build a ship like this as part of a group build.  I'd prefer the AV-3 configuration.  Even better that it seems like the ship carried a complement of yellow-wing aircraft.  Hopefully that's time-period correct, but how cool is that! 

 

Most of the ship kits in my stash are IJN because I tend to like the lines and distinguishing characteristics like the pagoda-style towers (the US ships seem to be more functional but less "stylish" design-wise), but I would be open to building a US ship.  I do hear, however, that Santa is bringing me the Hasegawa Gambier Bay for Christmas  

 

As Lou mentioned, while all the battle-type ships are nice, I'm mostly interested in the various WWII auxiliary ships - seaplane tenders, oilers, repair ships, submarine tenders, etc.  I think they are so interesting with all the cranes and various configurations.  It seems like these auxiliary ships are mostly only available in 1/700 scale, where there are tons of options.  I have a bunch in the stash with PE and wood deck upgrades.  FiveStar, Artist Hobby, Rainbow, Toms Model Works, etc. have a pretty vibrant market for 1/700 aftermarket.  Hasegawa has the Heian Maru submarine depot ship in 1/350 scale, and I think they offer two other versions of what is essentially the same converted ship as a hospital ship and a cruise liner (Hikawamaru).  

 

For a cool seaplane tender on the Japanese side, one of my favorites is the Akitsushima.  A super cool design and camo scheme.  I have both the Snowman 1/350 resin version and a 1/700 by Pit Road.  There might be an old and rare limited edition Hasegawa kit in 1/350, and I just saw that Airfix might have released a 1/72 version of it 🤩

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the digression, but I'm in if others want to do a group build on the Langley AV-3!

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Landlubber Mike

[RGL]

5 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

or a cool seaplane tender on the Japanese side, one of my favorites is the Akitsushima.  A super cool design and camo scheme

I would love to do this but the cost is outrageous. When the kit gets released next year we can revisit this. 

[RGL]

Back to the build, the transom flap in HMS Summerset 

Edited December 20, 2020 by RGL

[lmagna]

It seems that each ship in the class has it's own unique transom flap with no two being exactly the same.

[Old Collingwood]

1 hour ago, RGL said:

Back to the build, the transom flap in HMS Summerset 

Nice pic of the Frigate sheds at Plymouth  UK.

 

OC.

[Beef Wellington]

Just found you before you got to page 4, interesting subject matter.  These looked so futuristic when launched but I think they have some of the most beautiful lines - and now I find myself recognizing how quickly time flies... definitely in from here on...