Smile-n-Nod Posted March 30, 2021 Share #1 Posted March 30, 2021 How can I tell if an old folding ruler is made of boxwood instead of a lookalike wood? bruce d, thibaultron and Keith Black 2 1 Quote Brett D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 30, 2021 Share #2 Posted March 30, 2021 Many old rulers were made of 'Bermuda boxwood', aka Castello, not European boxwood, buxus. It's very good quality wood, but creamier in color than true boxwood. tkay11, Ryland Craze, Keith Black and 3 others 4 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardkenway Posted March 30, 2021 Share #3 Posted March 30, 2021 7 hours ago, druxey said: Many old rulers were made of 'Bermuda boxwood', aka Castello, not European boxwood, buxus. It's very good quality wood, but creamier in color than true boxwood. Castello imo is easier to work than European/English boxwood I'm using both at the moment and the English boxwood pen blanks are noticeably hardstanding the ruler wood, which as druxey stated is very good quality wood, and if you are lucky with the prices, very good value. tkay11, Keith Black, thibaultron and 2 others 5 Quote Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted March 30, 2021 Share #4 Posted March 30, 2021 Sooooo... how do we tell the difference? Is it only by comparing the hardness against Castello? thibaultron, mtaylor and Keith Black 3 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkay11 Posted March 30, 2021 Share #5 Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, bruce d said: how do we tell the difference? Is it only by comparing the hardness against Castello? In terms just of the rulers which could be one part of the question, some of them clearly state 'BOXWOOD' on one of their faces, especially some of the old Rabone ones which say 'WARRANTED BOXWOOD', and I think every one of those that I have bought are quite different from the others. The trouble is that without that statement they all look alike from the outside because of the varnish coating; but they're still nicefor detailed shaping and cutting with sharp edges. If others know of a better way to spot the difference, I'm all ears. I'm quite happy with castello as it is cheaper and more available, as well as being in almost any size you would want (rulers are very limiting in that respect); but I prefer the look of boxwood and its hardness (not that I'm at all expert with either). Apologies if I've misunderstood the question, which I am wont to do! Tony mtaylor, Mark P and thibaultron 3 Quote === First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED 2nd build: Triton cross-section COMPLETED 3rd build: La Chaloupe Armée / 42ft Armed Longboat of 1834 by tkay11 – scale 1:36, plans by M. Delacroix COMPLETED 4th build: Allège d’Arles 1833 (Ancre) POB by tkay11 – scale 1:100, plans by F. Fissore COMPLETED Working on La Jacinthe 1:96 POB (ANCRE publications) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted March 30, 2021 Share #6 Posted March 30, 2021 36 minutes ago, tkay11 said: Apologies if I've misunderstood the question, which I am wont to do! Hello Tony, you did not misunderstand my question 👍 but I am not the original poster. I think the OP wanted to know the same thing as me: if I am looking at an old ruler, how do I know if it is boxwood? It sure helps if it says 'boxwood' on the ruler, but otherwise, as far as I know, it is the hardness of the wood that distinguishes it from the softer Castello, and it is the grain that tells you it is an unamed hardwood. Both of these points say what it is not, neither is a way of confirming what it is. I have a stash of rulers. All the ones I got pre-lockdown, when I was able to fondle them in a shop, are the real deal. Most of the ones I got off fleabay are also proper old boxwood but a couple have sneaked through. One of them is hard, practically without a visible grain and very nice to cut/carve. However, the wood once exposed is a pink-ish colour and I just don't believe it is boxwood. So, to get back to @Smile-n-Nod's question and with apologies for the hi-jack, what is the feature of boxwood that distinguishes it from the rest of the woods and made it so popular with modelmakers in times gone by? tkay11, Mark P, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 31, 2021 Share #7 Posted March 31, 2021 When i was very young, I wrote to Rabone and asked for any rejects from them for my models. Not only did the kid get an answer, the man at the company actually sent me a complimentary package of blanks! They were, looking back, definitely Castello. boxwood. It's lovely to work, except the odd piece can be brittle, so don't turn down using it. thibaultron, bruce d, mtaylor and 3 others 5 1 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted March 31, 2021 Share #8 Posted March 31, 2021 So you guys are the ones responsible for the disappearance of all the antique boxwood rules and scales! Time was, one could scrounge around and amass a collection of traditional boxwood scales and a nice classic folding carpenter's rule without a lot of trouble. Then they started disappearing. I recalled someone said people were buying them because they wanted the boxwood they were made of. I was skeptical, but I'm not skeptical any longer. Realize that the boxwood rules and scales you're cutting up for modeling stock may well be worth a lot more than you think. Not so much plain old "rulers," but be aware of what you've got in your stash. Leave some for those of us who have a use for them. https://garrettwade.com/product/antique-architects-folding-rule https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_904792 https://www.antiquesboutique.com/antique-barometers-instruments/set-of-architect-s-scale-rules/itm30452#.YGPHTVVKgdU tkay11, mtaylor, shipman and 4 others 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce d Posted March 31, 2021 Share #9 Posted March 31, 2021 My stash is complete, I can't see how I will need more. I know some of these old measuring sticks are collectable and steer away from them. The ones that really should have been thrown out because of wear & tear are good enough for harvesting. 8 hours ago, druxey said: They were, looking back, definitely Castello Oh boy, things ain't what they used to be. He sent you blanks?!?! Nowadays I would expect the response to be a law suit for snooping into trade secrets. The wood in my rulers marked 'boxwood' is harder than Castello. A broken yardstick from around 1900 is the hardest of the pieces I have so far cut. thibaultron, tkay11 and mtaylor 3 Quote 🌻 STAY SAFE A model shipwright and an amateur historian are heads & tails of the same coin current builds: HMS Berwick 1775, 1/192 scratchbuild; a Slade 74 in the Navy Board style Mediator sloop, 1/48 - an 18th century transport scratchbuild French longboat - CAF - 1/48, on hold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkay11 Posted March 31, 2021 Share #10 Posted March 31, 2021 8 hours ago, Bob Cleek said: Realize that the boxwood rules and scales you're cutting up for modeling stock may well be worth a lot more than you think. That's why eBay prices can go very high, the more so over the last few years; which leads to their cost per cubic metre being much higher than getting castello, and even higher than buying boxwood blanks. Tony mtaylor, Bob Cleek, thibaultron and 1 other 4 Quote === First build: Caldercraft HM Cutter Sherbourne 1763 FINISHED 2nd build: Triton cross-section COMPLETED 3rd build: La Chaloupe Armée / 42ft Armed Longboat of 1834 by tkay11 – scale 1:36, plans by M. Delacroix COMPLETED 4th build: Allège d’Arles 1833 (Ancre) POB by tkay11 – scale 1:100, plans by F. Fissore COMPLETED Working on La Jacinthe 1:96 POB (ANCRE publications) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipman Posted March 31, 2021 Share #11 Posted March 31, 2021 Had a breeze through my collection .... all of which are marked 'Boxwood'. Have a few yard sticks and a yard long implement for measuring shoe sizes. I used to pick them up because of the lovely warm colour and patina ... and a bit of history. thibaultron, bruce d and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 31, 2021 Share #12 Posted March 31, 2021 To Bob Cleek: I have never destroyed a real vintage or antique boxwood rule! I still have my father's Stanley 2' 0" folding rule, complete with level, as well as a set of scale rules similar to the ones you show in post #8. So, rest easy! Bob Cleek, bruce d, thibaultron and 1 other 4 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AON Posted March 31, 2021 Share #13 Posted March 31, 2021 I will have to go open my grandfather's tool chest and check his folding rule! bruce d, thibaultron and mtaylor 2 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted March 31, 2021 Share #14 Posted March 31, 2021 I pulled out some of the 'fag ends' of the rule blanks that Rabone sent me. The 'shoulders' were already milled for the ferrules. After over 60 years, the wood (unvarnished) is still quite pale as compared to true buxus boxwood. mtaylor, davyboy, thibaultron and 1 other 2 2 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted March 31, 2021 Share #15 Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) On 3/31/2021 at 5:08 AM, druxey said: To Bob Cleek: I have never destroyed a real vintage or antique boxwood rule! I still have my father's Stanley 2' 0" folding rule, complete with level, as well as a set of scale rules similar to the ones you show in post #8. So, rest easy! I'm so relieved. Be still my heart! I'm still looking for a boxed set of scale rules. They don't come cheap! Edited April 8, 2021 by Bob Cleek druxey, bruce d, thibaultron and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Babb Posted April 1, 2021 Share #16 Posted April 1, 2021 Hi all, About 48 years ago there was an advert in a good old weekly magazine for Russian boxwood of cuts, in a cubic foot bag, I ordered 2, fantastic wood that I am still using to this day, although fast disappearing now. It planes ,cuts and carves wonderfully, and iam sure I only paid what now would be a few pounds. mtaylor, druxey, bruce d and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uss frolick Posted April 7, 2021 Share #17 Posted April 7, 2021 Reminds me of the old adage: ”Women: Give them an inch, they’ll think they’re the ruler.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaager Posted April 7, 2021 Share #18 Posted April 7, 2021 When I was a pup and in grade school, I had a 1 foot wooden ruler with a metal strip in a slot on one edge. When boxwood ruler blanks and old rulers are being proposed as a material to be repurposed for blocks and deck furniture, I immediately imagined that it was these old elementary school rulers, and not a carpenter's folding ruler. Even in the 1950's, I think Boxwood had been replaced with a less expensive hardwood species on this side of the pond. The school rulers are much thicker. The carpenter's rulers are generally not thick enough to be worth the effort as well as having inherent worth on their own. bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote NRG member 50 years Current: NMS HMS Ajax 1767 - 74-gun 3rd rate - 1:192 POF exploration - works but too intense -no margin for error HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - POF Navall Timber framing HMS Beagle 1831 refiit 10-gun brig with a small mizzen - POF Navall (ish) Timber framing The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842 Flying Fish 1838 pilot schooner - POF framed - ready for stern timbers Porpose II 1836 brigantine/brig - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Vincennes 1825 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers assembled, need shaping Peacock 1828 Sloop-of -War - POF timbers ready for assembly Sea Gull 1838 pilot schooner - POF timbers ready for assembly Relief 1835 packet hull USN ship - POF timbers ready for assembly Other Portsmouth 1843 Sloop-of-War - POF timbers ready for assembly Le Commerce de Marseilles 1788 118 cannons - POF framed La Renommee 1744 Frigate - POF framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlevine Posted April 8, 2021 Share #19 Posted April 8, 2021 Frolick, we ARE the ruler. 😊 mtaylor, bruce d, RichardG and 2 others 1 4 Quote Toni Chairman Nautical Research Guild Member Nautical Research and Model Society Member Midwest Model Shipwrights Current Builds: Utrecht-1742 Completed Builds: Longboat - 1:48 scale HMS Atalanta-1775 - 1:48 scale Half Hull Planking Project Capstan Project Swallow 1779 - 1:48 scale Echo Cross Section NRG Rigging Project Utrecht-1742 Gallery: Hannah - 1:36 scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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