Duchess of Kingston 1778 by desalgu - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - Royal Yacht

[BobG]

Nice job correcting the stern planking problem, David. 

[DelF]

Well done. I believe this type of stern is called a round tuck, as opposed to the square tuck we’re probably both more familiar with, where the hull looks like a wine glass when viewed from aft. You’re still ahead of me!

Edited August 17, 2021 by DelF

[James H]

That now looks perfect for second layer. 

[desalgu]

Thank you Bob, Derek, and James!

 

Very interesting about the two types of sterns, round tuck and square tuck.  The other two models I've built had the square tuck, so I had never seen this type.   Glued the stern post on, and will do the counter shortly.  I'm back making progress.

 

I don't think I'll be ahead of you for long, Derek!   I go pretty slow, especially this time of year.  This kit really has gone together quite easily.  I've been very impressed.  It's by far the best kit, airplane or boat, that I've built.  Sometimes I forget that there's supposed to be some work involved, challenges, and problems to solve.

 

Dave

[DelF]

20 minutes ago, desalgu said:

It's by far the best kit, airplane or boat, that I've built.  Sometimes I forget that there's supposed to be some work involved, challenges, and problems to solve.

I agree with all your points Dave. Chris has solved a lot of the problems for us, but I enjoy the problem solving aspects of the hobby so I'll probably have to go looking for extra challenges like making my own decks!

[glbarlow]

On 7/8/2021 at 10:56 PM, desalgu said:

used a battery-powered drill that rotates very slowly

Where did you get your drill?  I’ve been looking for something like this for a while. 
 

Good work solving the problem we’ve all had with gunport patterns. 

[glbarlow]

On 8/4/2021 at 11:45 PM, desalgu said:

problems I'm having with planks curving around bow

Check out my current log on Flirt (linked below) to see how I use Chuck’s plank bending technique to solve this problem. There are 4 videos of Chuck demonstrating the technique here on MSW. It will come into play again on the second planking too. 

[desalgu]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:29 AM, glbarlow said:

Where did you get your drill?  I’ve been looking for something like this for a while. 
 

Good work solving the problem we’ve all had with gunport patterns. 

 

Hi Glenn,  I got my drill (actually called a screwdriver) and mini-drill chuck adapter from Micromark, but looks like they still sell the chuck, but not the same screwdriver.  Looks like they are selling perhaps a better version.  The one I got is cheap and cheaply made, but it's worked.  I'm sure there are higher quality ones if you look for battery powered screwdrivers.  This one is very low powered and turns a drill very slowly which I like for model work.  You have to be patient with it, especially on harder woods.  The chuck adapter handles very small drills.  I've used 1/16" down to number 80 drills.  I used (and broke) a lot of number 77 drills making starter holes for nails on the first layer of planking.  Next time around I'm getting a nail pusher!

 

I saw amazon is selling the drill/screwdriver I have.  I guess no surprise since they have almost everything.  But I couldn't find the chuck adapter I use.  It's all very simple, cheaply made, low powered, etc., but I've had good luck with it and use it all the time instead of pin vice. Here are some links:

 

https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-500-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B002XZLTQO/ref=sr_1_21?crid=3GC4X77QPQG9C&dchild=1&keywords=battery%2Bscrewdriver&qid=1629327553&sprefix=battery%2Bscrew%2Caps%2C330&sr=8-21&th=1

 

https://www.micromark.com/Drill-Chuck-For-Ultra-Tech-Precision-Power-Screwdriver

 

[desalgu]

Glenn,  I'll check out your Flirt log on plank bending.  I've watched Chuck's videos, but they might be worth another look.  I've been using his travel iron method.  I think a major problem was I didn't realize how much edge bending was required.  I got better as I did more planking, but I'm always looking for better methods.  

 

I've also looked in reference books (TFFM HMS Swan) and saw how to determine how much edge bend is required, so I'm going to give that a try.  I was doing a lot of guesswork on the first layer.  I need to use these reference books much more than I do, but there's so much detail, I get a bit lost. 

 

On Syren I did no edge bending and struggled with it, but still ended up with pretty good results.  I knew I was forcing planks a lot more than I wanted to.  Being inexperienced, I never realized that you could bend a plank edgewise without much trouble, and that would make it much easier.  At the time I was thinking it was some kind of odd twist that I needed.  

 

I've planked a lot of model airplanes over the years with balsa, and never did edge bending.  Of course, balsa is super flexible, so it's not an issue.  It's similar to planking first layer where you don't have to be very precise and can use a lot of filler.  This is a whole different ballgame.

 

[desalgu]

Here's the stern post and counter glued onto model.  

 

I've also glued on the first outer bulwark piece.  It took a lot of clamps!  and I used some tape to hold part of it.  Wasn't the greatest, but seemed to work.   I had no trouble soaking and bending the bulwark pieces.  It was easy using the plywood bulwarks as the form.  

 

 

[desalgu]

I found some bar clamps I'd forgotten I had to use on the 2nd bulwarks piece.  They worked much better than tape.  You can see them in top left of photo.  

 

I used the small alignment holes but had some trouble getting nails in them.  Ended up using may half dozen of the holes.  I used regular titebond and it started setting up, so between gluing, clamping, and trying to get nails in position, I needed 5 hands.  I also discovered that nails have to go in straight or you still can have alignment problems.  

 

The 2nd side ended up glued slightly higher than I wanted.  I think I would have gotten closer if I'd stopped worrying about the nails and just aligned by eye using windows and portholes.  It's a minor issue and shouldn't cause any problems later on that a little sanding won't fix.

 

Since then, I've glued on the outer facing pieces on the bow stem.  These use little rectangular pieces of wood as alignment aids, and I much prefer them to the nails.  They are easier for me to handle, and almost force things to align properly.  I'll add photos when I get the bow stem and keel pieces glued on.

 

[desalgu]

Here's the Duchess ready for 2nd layer of planking.  The bow stem and keel outer facings have been glued on.  

[desalgu]

I got eager and put the first plank of the 2nd layer on.  It's probably the easiest to do.  I decided to use 3-step planking pattern, and came up with 5.5" length planks as the best.  That means 3 full length planks run the length of the hull.

 

And then I realized I had planned to mark off the hull so I could taper planks at the bow so everything works out nicely.  I've always done this "on the fly" or by eyeball in the past.  It's worked out ok, but I thought on this model, I'd be more careful and try to do better.  Of course, I forgot, and the first set of planks will remain as is.  

 

I divided the hull into two sections, an upper and lower.  I used tape to try to make the two sections approximately the same width, and I wanted the dividing line at the stern to be where the stern post and counter meet.   Then I used a fan type pattern to mark off plank widths at a few places along the hull.  I'm just using this as a guide for tapering planks, and it's certainly better than guessing.  I feel like there's no way it's all going to work out perfectly, so I'll do the best I can, and then fit in whatever I need at the end.

 

In last photo, I've started adding the 2nd row of planks

 

[BobG]

Beautiful work, Dave!

[desalgu]

It's been a while since I posted anything, but I've been reading other's build logs, and asking some questions.  I really appreciate the quick responses and the effort others have put into their build logs.  It's a great help for someone like me just learning to build model ships.  

 

I know there are a lot of Duchess build logs out there, so I could skip over a lot of what I'm doing, but I've found it helps to put everything in one place even if it duplicates what others have done.  If you're following along and new to this like me, I'll try to put everything I'm doing in this log.

 

First off I modified my plank edge bending "station" to be more like what I've seen on the web.  I still glued the bending form down, but after using it a while, I understand now why a lot of people clamp one or more forms to bend against.  It does the same thing and it gives you more flexibility curving the plank.  

 

I've learned each plank curves a little different, and for me, the easiest way is to make several smaller bends gradually working toward what fits.  So it's estimating where to make a bend, making the edge bend, test fitting, and repeating several times.  I'm edge bending by wetting the top of the plank with my finger and then applying heat with travel iron (thank you Chuck!).   I don't let it cool or set that long, maybe minute or two, and then do a test fit.  It's a lot of trial and error, but works good for me.  

 

I had no luck trying to figure out what edge bend I needed ahead of time and bending to that shape.  I'm sure it can be done, but I found the trial and error method was simpler and faster.  At least for me it also gave better results.  I'm not too good at cutting parts to close tolerances.

 

[desalgu]

Here's the planking "pattern" I'm using from the Swan book.  I found that I could make planks 5.5" full length and go the length of the hull with 3 planks.  This length of planks scales to about 29-ft full size, so that's a little longer than the 24-ft minimum shown.  As I've worked along, I've tried to follow the pattern, but have made a few adjustments to get things to work out better.  And when I first started, I made a mistake and had to work around it.  It took me a while to figure out how to do the pattern.

 

With this pattern, one row of planks starts with a very short plank, 1.375".  Another row starts with a 2.75" plank.  Short planks are tough to edge bend, so I learned to make a plank that was 5.5" plus the 1.375" or 6.875" (6 7/8").  I edge bent this plank and put in the bow curve getting it to fit.  When I had it fitting good, I cut it into the two planks I needed.  I did the same for the row that starts with the 2.75" plank, but now the plank I edge bent was 8.25" long.

 

[desalgu]

I had divided the hull into two sections, an upper and lower.  I've gotten the upper section of one side planked.  I've done a rough sand on it, but it needs a lot more.  It looks pretty good, but when I take closeups, there are gaps between planks, and little areas that need a little bit of filler.  I'll save some dust from sanding, so I can make some filler with dust and thinned titebond.  I'm going to have to use closeups more, so I can see mistakes sooner.

 

l've been beveling the planks, bit it's still hard to get them to sit together with a perfect fit.  I've ended up with tiny gaps here and there.  I'm pretty sure wipe-on-poly will go in a lot of the gaps and it will look fine, but I don't have much experience at this.  I would like some of the edges to show subtly.  With pear and being hull planking, I haven't used Chucks pencil on the edges, because I didn't think it would show like on a lighter color wood.  I'm hoping the little gaps, when covered with wipe-on-poly, will show the edges about right.  

 

I would like to leave the hull "natural" instead of painting it white below the waterline.  This is just a personal preference of mine.  All that work planking and then you paint over it is a little hard for me to accept even if it's more historically accurate.  I feel the same about copper bottoms, and I just like the look of wood, always have.  It will make my models a little different from others, the same way when different modelers decide to paint different areas, and with different shades of colors.

 

On Syren, I didn't take closeups at this stage of planking, so nothing to compare to.  In general planking this time is going much easier and better than what I did on Syren.   I didn't know to edge bend planks when I made Syren, and I kept wondering why I was having to force planks to sit on the hull.  I managed, but I knew I was missing something.  Edge bending has made all the difference in the world, and I've been surprised at how much edge bending is required.

 

I'm using CA to glue the planks.  I'm getting them to lay pretty good along the hull with edge bends and a bow or stern bend.  I discovered how good CA holds the planks when I wanted to remove one to make an adjustment and get a better fit.  They are on there and not going anywhere!  So if I discover an error or little gap, I'll just have to fill it.  I believe most of what I'm seeing now can be handled with more sanding.  I haven't done that much sanding so far.  

 

On the stern I had the planks running off the edge of the hull about an inch when glued them on.  I always do this when building models, and try to trim to fit after gluing as much as possible.  I couldn't see the joint with the counter, but tried to hold the plank tightly to the hull while the CA set.  However, after I trimmed the planks along the counter, I can see I didn't get a couple of them firmly glued down to the counter.  I'll use filler to fix this.  It's something to watch out for when I plank the other side.

 

I'm a little hesitant sanding near pieces with laser engraving, like the counter, the bow stem, and keel.  I'm going to have to sand these pieces lightly to remove some CA fingerprints and get nice joints, but don't want to remove the engraving details.  I'll have to be real careful doing it.  Not sure how others have handled this.

 

The other area that will need some filler is at the rabbit on the bow stem.  I'm ending up with a small gap between the bow stem and planks, probably because I sanded the first layer of planks more than I should have.  I don't see this as a huge problem.  I'll just have to use minimal filler and be careful sanding.

 

At the stern, some of the planks curve into the bottom of the counter, or at least that's the way I understood it and what made sense.  So planks have to fit good at both the bow and stern.  I decided to do the bow plank and stern planks first, leaving a gap in between that was hopefully close to 5.5" in length.  That way I could cut and bend the bow and stern planks so they fit tight agains the bow stem and counter, without worrying about having to also fit the other end of the plank.  It's much easier to get both ends of a plank in the middle to fit right, because it doesn't have much of a bend or taper.

 

So, here's some pictures.

 

 

[glbarlow]

You’re doing well. One log recommendation, break up the text with photos and the photos with text rather than long runs of texts. Makes it easier to track and for the reader to stay engaged. 
 

Good stuff, glad you’re learning so much so fast. 

[desalgu]

Glenn, thanks for the suggestion on build log.  I'll try to do that next time.  Got pretty carried away with last block of text.  I'm kind of bad about writing too much!

 

Started planking upper part of port side today.

 

 

[desalgu]

I'm still planking, so not a whole lot to report.  I finished the upper section of both sides of the hull, and did some rough sanding.

 

I wasn't paying close attention (a problem of mine) and randomly grabbing strips of pear wood for planking.  But pear has different shades, some strips darker, some lighter.  I'll remember next time around to try to use strips of a similar shade next to each other.  

[desalgu]

Here's port side bow.   I believe I've gotten better bending planks to fit, but need a lot of practice tapering planks. 

[desalgu]

Here's a closeup of the stern planking.  For a first try at this style of stern, it's ok.  I thought I held planks tightly while gluing, but still missed a couple.  Either that or a small glue-filled gap appeared after a little sanding, probably from not getting beveling right.

 

I don't see any of this until I take closeup photos and then know where to look.  I doubt anyone will notice when finished, but I'll know!

[desalgu]

Here's photo looking straight on from bow.  Ideally planking on both sides should match up, but I'm off a little.  Tells me I didn't taper planks same on both sides.

 

I used tick marks on hull, but found it difficult to transfer marks to planks, and then cut/sand planks to match the tick marks.  So after 2-3 planks I'm off track.  I may redo tick marks more frequently as I plank further downward, and of course, try to taper planks more accurately.

[Thukydides]

11 minutes ago, desalgu said:

Here's photo looking straight on from bow.  Ideally planking on both sides should match up, but I'm off a little.  Tells me I didn't taper planks same on both sides.

 

I used tick marks on hull, but found it difficult to transfer marks to planks, and then cut/sand planks to match the tick marks.  So after 2-3 planks I'm off track.  I may redo tick marks more frequently as I plank further downward, and of course, try to taper planks more accurately.

I have found you just need to constantly double check things are lining up. So every strake I lay I double check both the bow and stern are matching. If anything is off then I have time to adjust. I also found I had an easier time of it when I started doing the tick marks by sections. So once I lined off the hull I would only do the tick marks for the first section, plank that and then I could adjust again afterwards as needed.

 

In any case I think it looks good.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Thukydides

[BobG]

2 minutes ago, desalgu said:

 Ideally planking on both sides should match up, but I'm off a little.  Tells me I didn't taper planks same on both sides.

It looks like very small differences in the tapering build up as you go along. The difference is so small that I think you could probably make the correction with the next plank so they match on both side and you wouldn't even be able to notice it when the planking is completed.

 

I've never planked a hull using tick marks and this method of tapering each plank but I am going to try it out soon. I've just kind of done my own thing and worked with the planks until I got them to fit pretty well but without a defined method.

 

Do you only taper the top edge of the plank and then leave the bottom edge entirely straight? Have you had to chamfer the top edge of the planks to help avoid any gaps between the the planks? If you do chamfer, do you chamfer the entire length of the plank or just chamfer the length of the section of the plank where the gap is?

[glbarlow]

Yes, only taper the top edge. I bevel the top edge of every plank it’s entire length to create a tighter fit to the plank above.

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, desalgu said:

didn't taper planks same on both sides.

Or the hull exactly the same on both sides.  You’re doing very well, especially being off such a small amount. I know I can’t cut a perfect +-.1-.2mm every time. I have to make adjustments. The great thing about lining the hull is you can see after each plank if your “on plan” and adjust accordingly. 

 

NIce work!

[BobG]

41 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Yes, only taper the top edge. I bevel the top edge of every plank it’s entire length to create a tighter fit to the plank above.

Thanks, Glenn. I've never clearly understood the difference between a bevel and a chamfer. I did some research and found the following illustration. So I'm assuming that you bevel as shown below. Do you just guess at the degree of the angle of the bevel and does the angle change as the planking continues?

 

 

[glbarlow]

Hadn’t seen such a diagram, I thought they were essentially the same thing. I don’t fret over it, no idea what angle it is. I knock off the top back edge and call it done. On some more severe twists at the stern I may knock off more of that edge until it’s a tight fit. It’s a feel thing that comes from doin it. 
 

With that I don’t want to hijack any more of David’s log than I already have. I’ll show a photo on my next log post. 

[desalgu]

On 9/2/2021 at 2:02 PM, glbarlow said:

Hadn’t seen such a diagram, I thought they were essentially the same thing. I don’t fret over it, no idea what angle it is. I knock off the top back edge and call it done. On some more severe twists at the stern I may knock off more of that edge until it’s a tight fit. It’s a feel thing that comes from doin it. 
 

With that I don’t want to hijack any more of David’s log than I already have. I’ll show a photo on my next log post. 

 

Glenn, don't worry about adding to my log.  I find everyone's comments real interesting.

 

Just wanted to let everyone know, this is what I do also.   I only taper the top edge of plank and then bevel the top edge of the entire plank.  I'll bevel it a little first, test fit, and then bevel a little more in places, if I think it needs it.  It takes practice, and I'm still learning.  In general doing better than Syren, but I certainly feel like I could do better.  Too often I don't realize it's not quite right until it's too late.

 

I've had a minor problem planking across a joint.  Sometimes the plank widths don't match perfectly.  I try to sand them to get them fitting real nice, but have missed a few.  If the width of the two planks at a joint aren't all but perfect, then the next plank down won't fit right.  I've been a little surprised at how "perfect" the fit has to be.  It's another of those things that's a matter of feel, literally!  And lots of practice.