British WW1 Mark IV tank by King Derelict - Emhar - 1/72

[king derelict]

It seems the balance of power needs to be redressed for the Entente Powers so I had added the Mark IV lit to the pile.

On Sunday afternoon I opened the box - just looking you understand.

There is quite a bit more to this kit than the a7v. More parts and three pages of instructions. Tracks are a rubbery fold around type. Detail is quite nice of the parts and not too much flash.

 

Then the glue came out - just to check the fit on a few parts you see

Sponsons assembled and the lower hull and inner skins mated. The fit is actually quite good. No positive locators but its all pretty obvious so far.

The outer skins and drivers cupola are in place and now the bit I was not looking forward to - the tracks. I have memories of dealing with the rubber track on Airfix tanks fifty years ago and they rarely went well. The instructions say that the plastic can be bonded using normal styrene glue which I was a bit cynical about. I tried a test piece gluing two bits of the sprue together and got a solid bond so on we go. 

I worked a bit at a time gluing and holding each section to get a good bond. Got a bit generous with the glue at the sharp radii to sften teh track and it wrapped around the corners and held very nicely.

The short section was added at the bottom. I was expecting the long piece to be deliberately long and provide some spare to cut back to fit. In the event the exact length is provided. Actually it is just a whisker short but I think it will fill and be unnoticeable

Looking through photographs of Mark IVs the kit has an error with the external fuel tank. The kit has the hatch and filler on the side rather than on the top where real life (and logic) places it. I sanded off the hatch and built a new one from card and some scraps of PE and added it to the model

 

The exhaust and rear structure has been added. It needs to be softened with some adhesive to bend it down the rear wall and across the top of the tank. The sponsons have been added and I was impressed at how nice the fit was after a touch of flash had been cleaned off.

The remaining parts are the ditching beam rails which look a bit fiddly and then its back to the air brush.

So far this has been very pleasant. I am rather disappointed with teh kits rendition of the Lewis guns

They are parts 34, 35 and 36. I am reluctant to use them and think it might be possible to do better with some thin plastic or brass rod inserted into the dome at the base of the kits effort. I see resin options out there but it seems a bit profligate to buy those and discard most of the gun

Thanks for looking in.

Alan

 

[Old Collingwood]

Another interesting build Alan   Thank you for including us Brits,   I have actually been inside one of these at a Tank Museum over here, quite a best they are.

 

OC.

[Canute]

Alan, I had a tough time figuring out what those tube things were supposed to represent. I like your idea of mounting the bases and adding some brass tubes for the Lewis guns. That's what the box art looks like to me.

[lmagna]

Not quite the MKVII from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade but at least looks a little familiar to me. (I never followed WWI tanks that much and pretty much all I know I learned here).

Looks like it won't be long for us to see what you do with this one.

 

Possibly you could find Lewis guns on Shapeways or somewhere.

Edited November 9, 2021 by lmagna

[ccoyle]

20 minutes ago, lmagna said:

Not quite the MKVII from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

 

Ah, the infamous Last Crusade tank -- the one that goes over a cliff and the turret falls off, revealing quite clearly that the tank is a plastic model. 😂  Fun movie, but a certain amount of suspension of belief was required.

[lmagna]

Just now, ccoyle said:

but a certain amount of suspension of belief was required.

Starting with the very existence of the"MKVII". Even though I suppose one could say that it did exist. They made a full version for the movie. It is  kind of like the San Pablo used in making The Sand Pebbles. They made a full size ship for the film, so if you build a model of the movie ship is it scale?

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, lmagna said:

if you build a model of the movie ship is it scale?

As long as you don't call it a US Navy Yangtze river gunboat I think your good to go.... (although the designer, Boris Leven, loosely based it upon the USS Panay PG-45) It was a real ship built in Hong Kong and motored, (diesel powered not steam) it's way across the Formosa Strait to get to the shooting site... For the engine room scenes they acquired a 1926 triple expansion steam engine from an old trawler on the way to the scrap yards... Two of the largest movie props ever constructed.... She was eventually broken up in 1975 as the "Nola D" in Singapore.

 

There are models of her around.....

[Egilman]

The MK VII tank, there were only three of them built, none of them survive... essentially a MK V with a new drive system....

They were cancelled in 1918 with the end of the war and the choice to go with the International MK VIII....

The Last Crusade Tank was actually a production prop... Built on an old excavator chassis, namely a HYMAC 590 and was powered by two rover V8 engines, drive gear installed and modified by a specialist engineer from Chertsey in Surrey, Diablo (Victor) Donnelly It was based on the real-world Tank Mark VIII which possessed no main top turret. The replica measured 36 feet (11 m) long and weighed 28 short tons. (25 t)

On the MGM lot...

It has since been repainted.....

 

[lmagna]

While I have known about the nature of both "Props" for some time, it is interesting seeing the more recent pictures of the Indiana Jones tank. It is obvious that Hollywood has not changed over the years in letting movie props go to waste. The entire Pearl Harbor fleet from Tora Tora Tora, all but one model of Harper Goff's Disney Nautilus, and his lesser known Proteus from the Fantastic Voyage movie. The 11 foot Hero Nautilus model still survives, but only after extensive restoration not long ago by Scott Brodeen and others. I have no idea what was done with it after the restoration.

 

Thanks for the recent picture of the MK VII movie prop.

Edited November 9, 2021 by lmagna

[king derelict]

21 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Another interesting build Alan   Thank you for including us Brits,   I have actually been inside one of these at a Tank Museum over here, quite a best they are.

 

OC.

Hi OC

Got to have a Strong British representation. I have a Whippet and a Tadpole also to strengthen the line.

Was that at Bovington. While I was researching on the web I found some photos of a Mark IV in a museum with a sign next to it saying :Closed" which intrigued me. It must have been great to have seen the inside. Bovington is on my "must visit" list

Alan

[king derelict]

11 hours ago, Canute said:

Alan, I had a tough time figuring out what those tube things were supposed to represent. I like your idea of mounting the bases and adding some brass tubes for the Lewis guns. That's what the box art looks like to me.

Thank you Ken

Its interesting; I found a few photos of built kits on line and although they had been modified with a Czech PE kit (might have to investigate that sometime) they left the Lewis guns as per the kit - which I think is the most unappealing part of the model. Definitely going to do something about them.

Alan

 

[king derelict]

10 hours ago, lmagna said:

Not quite the MKVII from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade but at least looks a little familiar to me. (I never followed WWI tanks that much and pretty much all I know I learned here).

Looks like it won't be long for us to see what you do with this one.

 

Possibly you could find Lewis guns on Shapeways or somewhere.

Hi Lou

This seems to be jumping together quickly. I thought of buying some after market Lewis guns but the cheap part of me baulked at buying them and chucking 3/4 of the gun and just using the last 1/4 of the barrel.

I think I can use some plastic rod and it will look OK

Thanks

Alan

[Old Collingwood]

8 minutes ago, king derelict said:

Hi OC

Got to have a Strong British representation. I have a Whippet and a Tadpole also to strengthen the line.

Was that at Bovington. While I was researching on the web I found some photos of a Mark IV in a museum with a sign next to it saying :Closed" which intrigued me. It must have been great to have seen the inside. Bovington is on my "must visit" list

Alan

Indeed it was Alan, its a Fantastic  Tank  museum   they have so many to look at there,  when I went they had certain tanks open  - but not all, guess they might rotate  or decide what they  want to open to the public.

 

OC.

[king derelict]

The last few pices of the kit were a bit of a challenge. The ditching beam rails. The kit provides three elements for each side and very loose instructions for the assembly and location of the rails.

I spent a lot of time playing with the parts and looking online for photos of the real thing. Eventually I trimmed about 1/4 inch off the front section and got something like the shape and locations of the attachment points.

The last fabrication task was to address the terrible Lewis guns. I found a very nice set of booms and yardarms from a Flyhawk ship model that had been replaced with brass. The size looked good so I cut the kit "barrels" off the mounts, drilled them and installed the cut sections of rod.

They look a bit scruffy here but I think they will work under a coat of paint.

The mounts were cut off teh sprue and then glued to sponsons and drivers position.

 

 

Thats it! No more parts - a total of 31 bits glued together. The primer has been airbrushed on and will be left for 24 hours and then an olive drab paint scheme and weathering. 

I'm toying with adding a ditching beam to the rails if I can make it look good. I have some dodgy 1/700 anchor chains that might work to secure it.

 

 

 

Thank you for looking in.

Alan

[king derelict]

10 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Indeed it was Alan, its a Fantastic  Tank  museum   they have so many to look at there,  when I went they had certain tanks open  - but not all, guess they might rotate  or decide what they  want to open to the public.

 

OC.

Thanks for the info OC. I am planning to be over in December. I'll be Oop North unfortunately but plan to hit RAF Cosford and try to seeing down to either the FAA museum (easiest to reach) or Bovington (the one I really want to see). I also hope to spend a few hours digging up spent Spitfire rounds from a WW2 air gunnery range in Wales. 

Alan

[Old Collingwood]

14 minutes ago, king derelict said:

Thanks for the info OC. I am planning to be over in December. I'll be Oop North unfortunately but plan to hit RAF Cosford and try to seeing down to either the FAA museum (easiest to reach) or Bovington (the one I really want to see). I also hope to spend a few hours digging up spent Spitfire rounds from a WW2 air gunnery range in Wales. 

Alan

All of that would be so cool  - I have done Yeovilton  FAA Musem  and Cosford   both Superb  museums  with a lot to see, and Bovington  also does a  live tank display  in its grounds (think that sometimes included car crushing)   not sure if its all year round   (check their website for details mate).

 

OC.

[JohnB40]

1 hour ago, king derelict said:

Hi OC

Got to have a Strong British representation. I have a Whippet and a Tadpole also to strengthen the line.

Was that at Bovington. While I was researching on the web I found some photos of a Mark IV in a museum with a sign next to it saying :Closed" which intrigued me. It must have been great to have seen the inside. Bovington is on my "must visit" list

Alan

I grew up in Dorset,not many miles from Bovington. When we were young my cousins/pals and I would ride our bikes over to the museum which then wasn't so large ,a lot of the tanks were parked outside,especially the great war ones. We could climb on them and if I remember correctly could go inside a MK 4,if not then we had access when they were first moved inside. There was one,I believe a MK 2 used at Arras,which was riddled with AP rounds and small calibre shells. you could see where some of the projectiles went clean through both sides. The MK 2's were training tanks and only their sponsons were armored.  During the invasion threat in 1940,the local stories stated these tanks were transported to local important cross roads and used for defense with their 6# guns. Bovington is well worth a visit.

Edited November 10, 2021 by JohnB40

[mtaylor]

Alan, if you ever get way up north to the Baltimore area, be sure to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.  Their collection of armor is very impressive to say the least.

[Egilman]

55 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Alan, if you ever get way up north to the Baltimore area, be sure to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.  Their collection of armor is very impressive to say the least.

Aberdeen Proving Ground Museum in Aberdeen, Maryland was closed in September 2010, the museum is now located at Ft Lee... and is still impressive, but nothing like the original....

 

Currently, the collection is used exclusively for training and not available for public viewing. Currently, only soldiers with an 89, 91, or 94 series MOS are authorized entry.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Egilman

[mtaylor]

Rats.  I didn't know that.  Thanks for the info Engilman.  Many decades ago when I was in that area for business, besides Baltimore Harbor, Aberteen was always worth a visit.

[king derelict]

22 hours ago, JohnB40 said:

I grew up in Dorset,not many miles from Bovington. When we were young my cousins/pals and I would ride our bikes over to the museum which then wasn't so large ,a lot of the tanks were parked outside,especially the great war ones. We could climb on them and if I remember correctly could go inside a MK 4,if not then we had access when they were first moved inside. There was one,I believe a MK 2 used at Arras,which was riddled with AP rounds and small calibre shells. you could see where some of the projectiles went clean through both sides. The MK 2's were training tanks and only their sponsons were armored.  During the invasion threat in 1940,the local stories stated these tanks were transported to local important cross roads and used for defense with their 6# guns. Bovington is well worth a visit.

Hi John

That would have been great to be able to be that close to the tank museum and also to be able to actually climb around on the tanks. Bovington is definitely one of my must do museums. I'm not sure it will happen this time though.

There is something about actually being able to get inside something and experience the environment instead of looking at the thing over a rope. At the Air Force museum, Dayton, Ohio they have a B29 fuselage you can walk through - great.

Alan

[king derelict]

22 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Alan, if you ever get way up north to the Baltimore area, be sure to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.  Their collection of armor is very impressive to say the least.

Hi Mark

I was at NAS Patuxent River, MD from 2011 to 2018 and knew some people at Aberdeen but as Egilman reported the collection has moved and you can't visit it any more. A huge shame

Alan

 

[king derelict]

There seems to be quite a lot of debate on the colour schemes for the British tanks in WW1. Opinions range from grey, to olive drab and khaki. I decided to go with olive drab so the base coat was air brushed on. The tracks will them be worked up with rust, silver and dirt then washes and shading to the hull. With paint on the ditch rails look OK and I think the homemade Lewis guns will pass muster.

 

 

Thanks for looking in

Alan

[lmagna]

As I have said before, I am pretty much a moron when it comes to WWI tanks............but why should I let that stop me? 

I think I read when looking up these tanks you are building that at first they did them in camo and stuff but pretty quickly came to the same conclusion we have here. Why try to hide the biggest, loudest, moving thing in no mans land? They then just left them gray like they came from the factory. So I suppose it would depend on #1 if they are right, and #2 what period/battle you are modeling. 

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, king derelict said:

I was at NAS Patuxent River, MD from 2011 to 2018 and knew some people at Aberdeen but as Egilman reported the collection has moved and you can't visit it any more. A huge shame

Yes it's a HUGE shame.... (also another little detail, the collection has been reduced substantially) Many of the vehicles have been sold off to other museums around the world.... Like the Sd kfz 254, one of only three known to exist, it was sold to the Heers museum in Germany.... (the second is in one of the British museums and the third is in a private collection) They kept only what they consider historically significant, or of interest in the history of the US army.... and a few of the only examples available....

 

It's a real shame, it used to be one of the worlds premier collections....

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, king derelict said:

There seems to be quite a lot of debate on the colour schemes for the British tanks in WW1. Opinions range from grey, to olive drab and khaki. I decided to go with olive drab so the base coat was air brushed on.

Olive drab will work as long as it is on the greenish side.. the American Mk V's were delivered painted British army green, which dulled down fairly quickly... and they were liberally splattered with brown mud from the moment they hit the field.. (sometimes deliberately) The mud was usually a very rich brown when fresh, and a dark khaki when dry.... They were also usually covered with dust cause they kicked up huge clouds of it in dry conditions...

[king derelict]

On 11/10/2021 at 11:26 PM, Egilman said:

Olive drab will work as long as it is on the greenish side.. the American Mk V's were delivered painted British army green, which dulled down fairly quickly... and they were liberally splattered with brown mud from the moment they hit the field.. (sometimes deliberately) The mud was usually a very rich brown when fresh, and a dark khaki when dry.... They were also usually covered with dust cause they kicked up huge clouds of it in dry conditions...

Thank you Egilman.

This might be the model to experiment with muddying up. 

Alan

[king derelict]

I wasn't very happy with teh overall appearance of teh olive drab; it seemed to be pretty bland so I mixed some buff into dilute olive drab and misted it onto the model

It still wasn't what I wanted but there is a bit more depth so I repeated the process with more Buff in teh mix

The photos all look very similar but in real life I think ether is more shadowing on the model. I'll work on the tracks next with a mix of mud, rust and bare metal.

Alan

[king derelict]

I started work on the tracks brushing some basic rust onto the tracks but leaving some paint. This is the first time I have used the Mig Track Rust and I quite like it. Some bare metal next and then maybe some mud.

 

I played around with an idea for some mud that goes beyond paint. I mixed some brown craft paint with some ground ceramic bricks (Aedes Ars castle kit) and a dollop of glossy medium. It looks quite promising when I spread it around on a piece of cardboard to evaluate it as a base.

I'll add some puddles using epoxy to enhance it a bit.

Then the ditching beam, I should have some suitable spare wood lying around

 

Thanks for looking

Alan

[Roger Pellett]

It would seem that much of the reason for these early tanks would be in their shock value.  Why then would you be worried about hiding them from the enemy with camouflage?