HMS Agamemnon by Boris279 - Caldercraft - 1/64

[boris279]

Everybody thanks for the likes and watching.

 

Went a bit further with the galleon, and made the catheads, 
As there is little mention of them in the building description, I took a number of contemporaries, including the Victory as a guide, and came to the following.

and made the last mouldings and gave them a colour, also gave the rest of the construction a colour.
Only the railing remains to be made, and then the galleon chapter is finished.

Below some photos.

 

[boris279]

And added the railing to the galleon 

hereby I consider the chapter galleon finished 

 

 

 

 

 

up to the next chapter……. 

[boris279]

A bit further on 

Given that I am waiting for a serving machine.
To make the rigging for the guns. 

In the meantime I started with the stairs on the outside of the hull.

 

While determining the location on the drawing, my eye fell on the edges (rebates) of the upper gun ports, these are at some (6 piece) and at some not (7 piece) 

 

Oops, how stupid of me, while cutting out the gun ports I blindly assumed that they would all be executed with hatches, …,not so!

 

So acting like I never saw it and just kept going and ending up fooling myself or taking everything off and redoing it.

 

Then just swallowed and took everything off and redid it.

 

Broke all the mouldings away and then filled the rebates with 1x1mm strips, 
Sanded and filled where necessary, then placed new mouldings, primed everything again, and then sprayed it in the right color, only the red of the inside of the gun ports and painting of the red frame remains. 

It was a job in itself, but I am satisfied with the result. 

 

[Bill Morrison]

I just found this build and I am impressed!  You did a remarkable job saving this model from the effects of years of neglect, and the results are obvious.  Great job!

Bill

[Oldsalt1950]

Very handsome looking Boris. Great detail.

[boris279]

Thanks for the nice words and thumbs up. 
 

 

A bit further. 
Put the model outside in the warmth for a few hours (not in the sun) and the result the paint hardened nicely, so I could paint the gun ports on the inside and add a red trim to the trim.

Plus repaired some minor damage.

 

The result "we are back to square one".

 

So can now start with the the stairs on the outside of the hull again, plus the necessary things,
 

 

[yvesvidal]

Are you planning to show all the guns on the gun deck, in a closed position? How will you reach inside if you need to change your mind?

 

I currently have to think about this on the Bellona.

 

Yves

[boris279]

Thank you all for your feedback and watching, 

 

@yvesvidal 
The guns are all still loose, I am waiting for my serving machine that I ordered , so I can rig them further, some of them I will rig further, the rest which will be under the deck and therefore not visible I will not rig further. 

 

      -Blimbing ladders outside ship's hull-

Given that I find the milled walnut plywood (splintering too) supplied with the kit ladders too coarse and not pretty. 
 

So I decided to make them again, which in my opinion seem more realistic than the supplied ones. 
 

The pictures below explain it all. 

 

[KJackson]

Meticulous work, Boris!

[boris279]

Thank you all for your reactions and for watching!

A bit further on 
I rebuilt the fenders and the chess trees because I didn't like the plywood version and thought it was too coarse. So I made them again from a finer kind of wood. 

Below some pictures 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

Hi Boris

Just curious, but do the instructions call for port stops on the top sill as well as the bottom sill and the frames (sides).  I have not seen stops on the the upper sills on contemporary models or books based on contemporary sources for the time of Agamemnon.  As with many things in our hobby, maybe Agamemnon was an exception to the norm for her time period.  From fifty years earlier I have seen pics of a sectional model of a Centurion 1732( 60) at RMG that does show stops on the upper sill. 

Thanks

Allan

 

[boris279]

Allan, 

 

Thank you for your response, 

Sorry for my ignorance, 

but what do you exactly mean by “portstops on the top sill as well as the bottom sill and the frames (sides)”

 

Thanks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

The red linings inside the gun ports. Most of the time, and as I mentioned I have seen an exception.   The sketch may be more clear, sorry for any confusion.

Allan

[boris279]

Hi Allan 

 

according to my build instructions and plans that comes  with the kit, they should be there, also most models I found pictures from on the internet have them, but I also found a few “original plans” on the internet without the  side stops only top and bottom. 

So that’s a bit of a bummer, but decided to leave it as it is for now, made a study for my self, need to break things, that most likely never gone be nice again. 
 

so I have to live with that

 

but anyway thanks for pointing me out, appreciate it. 
 

thanks 

Boris 

[allanyed]

Thanks Boris.  This is really interesting, especially stops on the top sill and bottom sill but not on the frames on the sides.   Could you please post the contemporary "original" plans that show these top and bottom only?    I have seen contemporary models that have stops, but I have never seen contemporary plans that show them on the drawings.  A framing disposition and profile section of Ardent (64) 1781 is below.  I have never seen an original drawing showing stops so this is  very interesting.  Regarding photos on the internet that you mention, are these modern models from kits or contemporary models?   With one exception I would not trust parts or instructions from a kit maker without first researching contemporary information to see if it is correct before installing it. 

 

Thanks again

Allan

 

[Oldsalt1950]

All or none of the mentioned configurations of the gun ports is correct. There is as designed by the naval architect, as built, as modified by re-fit, as modeled, as designed by the model manufacturer, as modeled by the model builder. Take your pick based on what you feel is pleasing to the eye. USS Constitution is a prime example, which one do you want to model? It has been re-fit and remodeled so many times. Also take into account that not all changes were documented on wooden ships. We all work off the material we can find, and have to decide at times who is the most reliable source.

 

Jim

[allanyed]

Hi Jim

 I totally agree with you that the model builder should do as pleases him/her but that does not necessarily mean every configuration is correct.  I was thinking more of those that are looking for as much historical accuracy as possible, rather than what most kit makers offer out of the box.  I would guess that contemporary models, contracts, and plans are more accurate than as designed by the model manufacturer, as modeled by the model builder  based on those that I have researched.   I have seen stops on the frames and bottom sill in the vast majority of cases, and in two cases, the top sill as well.  I have yet to see, but would very much like to, information based on contemporary sources of as-designed, as-builts, re-fits, or re-builds showing stops only on the top and bottom sills as Boris described above.   

Allan

 

 

[flyer]

I followed that 'stop-discussion' with interest.

 

For my Bellerophon I use Bellona as a source of information. That well known contemporary model seems to have stops on all four sides but the pictures I find are a bit ambiguous.

 

But what if we look at it from the angle of a sailor. The gun ports - especially on the lowest deck are close to or, in heavy weather, even dipping into the water. Wouldn't you want to keep that water out and therefore have stops on all four sides to create a better seal?

 

Peter

 

[boris279]

Thanks for the reactions

Then I think we found the same drawing, indeed I also found a drawing of the Ardent. 
The models I found on the internet are models built from a kit as I can judge. 

 

and we go just a bit further. 

 

Got the deck in place for the foreship and then planked it. 
There is a difference in colour, but this will be the same in the end, I laid the first deck 10 years ago. 
 

I made the railing and adjusted it a bit as I thought the one supplied with the kit was rather stiff and coarse. 

Below some pictures explain more than words. 
(Everything is still standing loose)

Edited June 2, 2022 by boris279

[yvesvidal]

Absolutely superb. 

Boris, I am using your Build log as a reference for building my Bellona. Your work is beautiful and a source of inspiration for me.

 

Yves

[boris279]

Well after a 3 week vacation at customs, I finally received my serving machine, package came in good order without missing or defective parts and components, the assembly is quite simple and was also done fairly quickly.

 

I had bought the so-called endless version, but I did not like the attachments that came with it, so I removed them.

 

During testing I came up with the idea to modify the so-called endless rope fittings, and make an attachment of it to make winding a bit easier, and so after some soldering and sanding and grinding the result is satisfactory and I am extremely satisfied with the result. (It’s still testing but gives a impression) 

See the pictures below for an explanation

In between I also worked on the attributes on the fore deck. 

 

[boris279]

Everyone thanks for the thumbs up and looking 

A little  bit further on the foreship, made the deck grid, and the so called forecastle snatch cleats. 
 

 

Now the attributes that will be placed on the foredeck are more or less ready. 

 

So that I can now begin to manufacture the rigging for the gunwale, I have milled the rope myself on a rope making machine. 

Is all still in the test phase but gives an idea. 

[Lieste]

The button on that gun looks huge. It is usually only roughly comparable to the bore, maybe bore plus 10-15% - which is closely comparable to half the diameter of the chase at the muzzle astragal.
 

[boris279]

9 minutes ago, Lieste said:

The button on that gun looks huge. It is usually only roughly comparable to the bore, maybe bore plus 10-15% - which is closely comparable to half the diameter of the chase at the muzzle astragal.
 

Your right on that !, unfortunately that’s how they came with the kit, and I do not have a good enough lathe to turn them uniform down a bit, so I had to make a compromise with my self on that, most of the parts on the model I remade or improved, but the gun button ….. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by boris279

[allanyed]

6 hours ago, boris279 said:

unfortunately that’s how they came with the kit

I am not sure about prices in the EU, but I paid less than US$10, including freight, for twenty 3D printed gun barrels which were based on very accurate drawings.  One of the nice things is you can scale to whatever size you would like once you have the 3D drawing in a useable format such as STL.  I have turned cannon on my lathe and have made molds and cast cannon, and have now found that the 3D printer is by far easier, less expensive and more accurate.  I would love to see someone prepare a set of STL drawings of the various type of cannon from the 17th century to the early 19th century and have MSW make them accessible in the Articles data base as they have done with a myriad of projects from rigging to deck furniture.   
 

Allan 

Edited June 17, 2022 by allanyed

[scrubbyj427]

On 6/17/2022 at 3:08 PM, allanyed said:

  I would love to see someone prepare a set of STL drawings of the various type of cannon from the 17th century to the early 19th century and have MSW make them accessible in the Articles data base as they have done with a myriad of projects from rigging to deck furniture.   
 

Allan 

I would actually like to do this, it would extremely useful to all members and actually not that difficult to model them. The trick would be finding definitive drawings/examples for each size of gun for a given period of time. Through my research on the 4th rates I’ve discovered that throughout the 17th and 18th centuries  these guns slowly evolved and changed in length, weight and size, probably negligible at scale. I’m not too familiar  on what the carriages did over time but I’m sure they would need to be accounted for as well.
With so many books and examples available to us I often wonder where to begin and how much could and would need to be watered down for scale modeling.

[allanyed]

Scrubbyj427

I would be happy to help out in 2D based on the many scaled drawings of barrels and carriages in Caruana's book.  I only have volume 2 which goes from 1715 to 1815, but if anyone can provide earlier drawings I can do them in 2D for you to convert to 3D STLs.  Might take awhile, but I would give it a go for you.

Allan

 

 

[boris279]

A bit further 

Made the gun tackles and gun breeches. 

as said before, pictures explain more than words, so a few pictures 

 

 

[yvesvidal]

Beautiful deck and guns arrangement. Very well done.

 

Yves

[Spaceman]

I'm just pulling my huge Agamemnon box out from its hiding place under the bed where it has been waiting for a year or so while I finished my last build (HMS Pickle) so having a look through all the excellent build logs in MSW before I start.  I am just blown away by the quality of your build and, if I'm honest, has scared me a little!!  But gives me something to aspire to.  I will be following closely.  Keep up the stunning modelling.

 

Malcolm