mtaylor Posted January 10, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 10, 2022 I have one of their lions for my Belle Poule and trying to figure how it's mounted. I'm also considering the Bellona model and wooden figurehead and same question. On both, there's wood between the legs and also extends out and down beyond the legs. I'm thinking I'll need to carve away some the material to fit the stem. Anyone know? Here's a photo of the lion so you can see what I'm talking about. coxswain, Archi, scrubbyj427 and 1 other 4 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubbyj427 Posted January 10, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 10, 2022 Isn’t there a clear cutout in the middle for it to sit on the stem? Just a quick shot of the lion on CAF’s website shows this: if that is the case i would say just slowly trim material away to get a nice snug fit. JJ Keith Black 1 Current Builds: HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 - 5th rate 32 gun frigate (on hold for now) HMS Portland 1770 Prototype 1:48 - 4th rate 50 gun ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubbyj427 Posted January 10, 2022 Share #3 Posted January 10, 2022 Ahh I see now! I looked at the wrong Lion it’s this one: I can see what you are dealing with now. I would ask Tom @cafmodel. Seems strange he didn’t cnc the remaining material out. Seems like you need a mill or a blade and a lot of patience now. JJ mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Current Builds: HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 - 5th rate 32 gun frigate (on hold for now) HMS Portland 1770 Prototype 1:48 - 4th rate 50 gun ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share #4 Posted January 10, 2022 I got an answer back but it's rather vague... use a CNC. Not having a CNC, I'm going to sort out what needs to be done using my mill. I would like to make more progress on my Belle Poule but need to finish the Sphinx first or at least have it close to being done. scrubbyj427, coxswain, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffT Posted January 11, 2022 Share #5 Posted January 11, 2022 A Dremel or similar would probably do the trick. catopower, mtaylor, hollowneck and 1 other 4 Jeff In progress: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Company -1/2" scale USS Constitution - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Granado - CAF Model - 1:48 HMS Sphinx - Vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuglo Posted January 11, 2022 Share #6 Posted January 11, 2022 The amount to be cut out will vary, according to fit. Therefore must be left to the modeler rather than one size fits all. Just do it carefully- its an expensive item. Keith Black and mtaylor 2 current build- Swan ,scratch on shelf,Rattlesnake, Alert semi scratch,Le Coureur,, Fubbs scratch completed: nostrum mare,victory(Corel), san felipe, sovereign of the seas, sicilian cargo boat ,royal yacht caroline, armed pinnace, charles morgan whaler, galilee boat, wappen von hamburg, la reale (Dusek), amerigo vespucci, oneida (semi scratch) diane, great harry-elizabethan galleon (semi scratch), agammemnon, hanna (scratch).19th cent. shipyard diorama (Constructo), picket boat, victory bow section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 12, 2022 Share #7 Posted January 12, 2022 JJ, The area to be cut out in the photos does not look right at all. It looks like they show a gap to be cut out that is much too wide. There is a taper from the stem as you move forward to the knee of the head where the figurehead rests. I don't have access to my books for a couple days, but if I recall correctly, I believe it tapers to about half the width of the stem. The top view rough sketch below is not to scale but pretty close. This means the cutout in the figure head needs to taper as well for a proper fit on the knee of the head. Allan Beef Wellington, mtaylor, WalrusGuy and 5 others 8 PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 12, 2022 Share #8 Posted January 12, 2022 Allan makes a good point. There are many models that do not show this double taper (from aft to forward as well as from below upward) of the knee of the head. The knee is not simply slab-sided. It makes the fore end of a model look heavy and clumsy. An example of this taper is shown here: KARAVOKIRIS, Beef Wellington, mtaylor and 10 others 13 Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted January 12, 2022 Share #9 Posted January 12, 2022 I do have a question regarding the forward most part of the knee of the head. The sketch I posted shows a radius on the forward face, but I have seen contemporary models with the radius and other without. Like most things in our hobby, not much is cast in stone, but I was wondering if the radius was era related or decided by the shipwrights. Two photos below, one with no radius, the other showing the radius at least below the figure head. In the second photo I do not recall for sure if the radius followed all the way up to the figurehead but I think it did in this case. Allan scrubbyj427, Ryland Craze, Archi and 4 others 7 PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share #10 Posted January 12, 2022 Good points on the figurehead mounting and the stem tapering. I'll take a break from the Sphinx for a few days and build the stem and see what needs to be tweeked. It could be as simple as tapering except at that point where the figurehead sits. Ryland Craze, chris watton and Keith Black 3 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 12, 2022 Share #11 Posted January 12, 2022 A radius is required so that, when at anchor, the cables are not chafed when the ship turns and they cross the bow. I've discovered that, in shipbuilding, there was always a reason for why something was done a certain way. allanyed, mtaylor and scrubbyj427 3 Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubbyj427 Posted January 13, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 13, 2022 Allan and Druxey, you both make great points, I wonder if the material that is shown to be “cut” takes into account that taper in the stem. If not it will look quite odd with a stem that ends up being narrower than the piece allows for. JJ Ryland Craze and mtaylor 2 Current Builds: HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 - 5th rate 32 gun frigate (on hold for now) HMS Portland 1770 Prototype 1:48 - 4th rate 50 gun ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted January 13, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 13, 2022 It appears that the manufacturer did not know this and simply intended it for a relatively unsophisticated kit. allanyed, Ryland Craze and mtaylor 3 Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted January 13, 2022 The good news is, the French did taper. Also, the amount of taper allows for the slot to be cleaned up and fit the taper both fore and aft and top to bottom. So I feel that I can build the stem and do what's needed. Maybe have to make some minor tweeks to things but doable. I may actually have to remove some wood from the carving to fit the proper taper but not much and only on the backside. ] Now this is all based on using the plans and the figurehead for measurements to fully sort out what I'm up against. I'm still going to cut out and assemble the stem before cutting the figurehead and verify. I'm approaching a stopping point on the Sphinx so a few days working the Belle Poule's stem will be a good break. coxswain, catopower, JeffT and 1 other 4 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafmodel Posted February 6, 2022 Share #15 Posted February 6, 2022 At present, we have cut off the keel slots for these lions, which is more convenient for installation I can replace one for you free. You can contact me at any time Tom hollowneck, Archi, coxswain and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisLBren Posted February 6, 2022 Share #16 Posted February 6, 2022 These look great ! I may need one for my Le Gros Ventre build. Do you have the size for 1/36th scale ? mtaylor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafmodel Posted February 7, 2022 Share #17 Posted February 7, 2022 https://www.cafmodel.com/collections/carve-373 There are several varieties here Height from 25-80mm Archi, coxswain, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cafmodel Posted February 7, 2022 Share #18 Posted February 7, 2022 I can customize the width of the keel slot according to your requirements allanyed, JeffT, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisLBren Posted February 7, 2022 Share #19 Posted February 7, 2022 Thanks Ill keep you posted ! mtaylor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share #20 Posted February 7, 2022 That's great on the pre-carved out keel slots. I've worked on mine and so far, so good. But I'll keep this in mind just case something breaks. coxswain 1 Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted February 8, 2022 Share #21 Posted February 8, 2022 Thanks Tom Allan mtaylor 1 PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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