F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

[Danstream]

Good luck @Egilman, may everything go well. I will be waiting for you continuing this build very soon.

Cheers my friend,

 

Dan

 

[Edwardkenway]

I'm on tenterhooks with this engine build, it looks totally amazing in your 3D rendition, can't wait to see it printed 

Fair sailing with the medical/surgeon thing! Hope everything goes well EG

 

[Egilman]

On 5/6/2022 at 12:46 PM, mtaylor said:

That's great news on Eduard doing the fret.  I believe you're right about not many companies go that extra mile for customer service anymore.

 

As for your upcoming absence. I hope it all goes well and you get a full recovery.  Recently was there myself and all's well now.

I thought it was a great thing for them to do that, it surprised me greatly... A high quality outfit...

 

I'm glad your ok my friend...

 

I'm pretty confident in the upcoming procedure, it's a common one for people our age and should take care of any future problems from that direction....

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, king derelict said:

The engine modelling is exquisite. The attention to detail is going to make it a work of art. People would buy it just to have the stand alone engine model. I would.

Regarding Shapeways I'm a little cautious about their offerings. They have some great looking secondary armament for my Flower corvette although the price would be more than everything put into the model and if I bought the 4 inch gun it would exceed the cost of everything including the printer. Unfortunately the site shows only the 3D rendering of the parts not a printed piece. I can't see FEM printing delivering the gun sights on a 1\48 scale 20 mm cannon.

I think I need to get brave and buy a resin printer. The cost wouldn't be much mpre.

Good luck with the medical encounter

Alan

 

Thank you Alan, I'm still not sure about the marketing aspect, it's a pretty esoteric subject....

 

Shapeways has always been pretty expensive to me for what you get, and the idea that you draw it up and pay them to print it for you with the chance that others might buy it adds so many cost level to it it becomes prohibitive in my mind for the one off modeler...

 

But then they are surviving so I guess people are paying the markup for it... They do have some stuff in the larger scales that looks pretty nice but most of it in the normal scales just doesn't work... for what we do.... Besides it's something aimed at designing and building things that model companies will never produce....

 

I'm hoping it comes out ok...

[Egilman]

10 hours ago, Canute said:

EG, good luck in the medical department. You'll be in our thoughts and prayers.

 

The Eduard story highlights one of the best produces out there. Some of the small producers I've dealt with are like that, but many just don't respond to we builders.

 

You're onto something with the SLA resin printing. I have an acquaintance who has been making masters of model railroad cars with that kind of printer for a number of years. He uses them as masters for some high quality resin castings which we can buy. His kits are some of the best; too bad he doesn't do more in my scale.

Thank you Ken, I'll be ok, it's a common procedure, preventative in nature, akin to correcting hardening of the arteries, no big deal I've been told... (famous last words?) {chuckle}

 

Eduard's a great company, has had it ups and downs in the past, but currently they are producing some of the BEST aftermarket products in the world... A go to name in the model world...

 

I've been researching 3D printing for some time, so I'm familiar with the work flow, I know of several people producing for themselves and considering marketing one off 3D printing is a non-starter, too slow for production unless you have a large bank of printers running all at once... That is how the FDM services are doing it And your friend is a pioneer in the coming ways of modeling/marketing.. Pick something you like and repeat it... Casting from reusable molds is the fast way to make parts, 3D printing in making the master part is where it is at right now... that's the  garage business model today...

 

Not something I'm really interested in, but if it turns out good I would probably post it to one of those websites that allow you to sell your designs to interested parties, but I have a lot more investigating to do before I go that way....

 

We are looking at the future happening right before our eyes my friend... it's an interesting time...

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, Danstream said:

Good luck @Egilman, may everything go well. I will be waiting for you continuing this build very soon.

Cheers my friend,

 

Dan

 

Thanks Dan, I'm feeling it will be ok... and the build isn't going to stop.... ONWARDS!!!! {chuckle}

Edited May 8, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, Edwardkenway said:

I'm on tenterhooks with this engine build, it looks totally amazing in your 3D rendition, can't wait to see it printed 

Fair sailing with the medical/surgeon thing! Hope everything goes well EG

 

Thank you Ed, trust me it's motivating to see the interest... I've put more work into this than I intended, maybe it will be worth it...

 

I think I'm gonna be fine as long as nothing breaks before I get to the procedure... The doc is a great one, (good looker too) and I get to be awake during it so it can't be all that bad...

 

I think I'll be fine....

[Egilman]

Everyone thank you for your support and confidence and well wishes.. The procedure is a carotid stent to keep me from having a stroke... It's been showing up in weird little ways over the last couple of weeks and the doc ordered a few scans and exams and they found a blockage... Something they are moving on quickly... I should know when I go into the hospital in three days and at max I will only be in for two days... It will be over before we know it...

 

Thank you all very very much for your well wishes, prayers and support, it means a great deal to me... 

 

EG

[Egilman]

Ok, another small update....

 

I wound up reworking the compressor body again... Those pesky detail pics!!! I went to put the bolts on the flanges and found that none of them line up where they should be in relation to the grooves... (isn't that always the way?)

 

So I spent a bit of time finding accurate pics to get the groove pattern down and then the bolt pattern and yes they both have a variable spacing pattern....

 

Real life...

My approximation of the above...

Both patterns get narrower and closer together the closer to the aft end as they go... It was the dickens to find images that show this clean enough to measure...

Here is a closeup...

Getting closer....

Anyway I'll keep plugging along and eventually It will be done....

 

Thank you for following along and all the compliments... It's appreciated...

 

 

 

[Old Collingwood]

Super fine work you are doing there brother  - top notch  work.

 

Just adding to what the rest of the family have said  -  best wishes  for a  safe procedure and a fantastic recovery  -  I understand these procedures are like MOT's  for  cars  - very common  and done in the thousands.    Just be careful if they want to do an oil change on you lol.

 

OC.

[mtaylor]

17 hours ago, Egilman said:

We are looking at the future happening right before our eyes my friend... it's an interesting time...

Some regard "interesting time" as a blessing with hope, but many also see it as curse.  Let's hope it's the former and not the latter.

[Egilman]

On 5/7/2022 at 7:43 PM, Old Collingwood said:

Super fine work you are doing there brother  - top notch  work.

 

Just adding to what the rest of the family have said  -  best wishes  for a  safe procedure and a fantastic recovery  -  I understand these procedures are like MOT's  for  cars  - very common  and done in the thousands.    Just be careful if they want to do an oil change on you lol.

 

OC.

Thank you Brother...

 

I don't think they are going for the full lube job my friend, just knock some kinks out of the oil lines.... {chuckle} (besides, I lubed myself up more than sufficient when I was younger)

[Egilman]

On 5/8/2022 at 11:32 AM, mtaylor said:

Some regard "interesting time" as a blessing with hope, but many also see it as curse.  Let's hope it's the former and not the latter.

Amen my friend, whatever it's going to be, it's going to be.... Nothing we can do about it.... (and a lot is going to depend on what people are willing to pay for)

[Egilman]

Anyway a very short update, I've finished the main compressor case and am getting ready to start the aft Frame...

 

Got the bolt rings on and spaced properly, and the air bleed bosses are done.... I'm now where I was when I started to rebuild this....

 

I'm going to have to study the aft frame for a bit to try and figure out how best to build it.... it's going to be a challenge...

 

Onwards....

Edited May 9, 2022 by Egilman

[king derelict]

Looks very good. Some interesting territory ahead of you.

Alan

[Jolley Roger]

All the best with the upcoming procedure Egilman.

Absolute stunning work, don't think I have ever seen anybody in the aircraft modelling community do something similar, so looking forward to the printed prototype.

If you ever make this available to buy, i'm first in line🙂, i've got a Wolfpack F-86(basically a reboxed Kinetic) in the stash and a proper engine will make it so much better!

[Egilman]

23 hours ago, king derelict said:

Looks very good. Some interesting territory ahead of you.

Alan

Thanks Alan... 

 

Yeah, it gets a bit tricky from here.... 

 

Update in a few...

[Egilman]

14 hours ago, Jolley Roger said:

All the best with the upcoming procedure Egilman.

Absolute stunning work, don't think I have ever seen anybody in the aircraft modelling community do something similar, so looking forward to the printed prototype.

If you ever make this available to buy, i'm first in line🙂, i've got a Wolfpack F-86(basically a reboxed Kinetic) in the stash and a proper engine will make it so much better!

Thanks Jolley...

 

Well, it's scheduled for Monday, be home Tuesday... A simple overnighter... I go in for the Pre-Op on Friday... Everyone thinks it's no big deal... Kind reassuring in a way...

 

Not sure if it's going to work out, once I get the aft compressor frame sussed out, then comes the first print test.... Only five basic parts, but if they won't print then I'll have to figure out why....

Keep your fingers crossed...

 

EG

[Egilman]

Small update...

 

Aft Compressor Frame...

 

Just the basic shape to build the details on, I think I've gotten an idea on how to do it....

Front flange to the back firewall, it seems like it is a tube and everything else forms off of that....

 

Back Side...

As you can see I already put the bolt head detail on the front flange to match the center casing... The back side of the firewall has eight flanges to mate with the Burner Cans... how they go together is the flanges meet and there is a clamp that locks each can to the firewall... what I'm going to do when it comes time is create the matching flange on the Cans and then model the clamp as a ring that slips over the flange on the firewall... This will give me the necessary separate burner cans with a center support structure like the real engine shows... Another interesting thing, there are no bolts in the firewall...  The rim of the firewall is nothing but a circular flange where the airframe firewall mounts with bolted clamps... That keeps the burner section isolated from the mixture chambers in the aft Compressor frame....

 

The rest is figuring out the external contours of the various chambers inside the frame....I'm also going to have to figure a way to step down the center section so when it's extruded out to meet the turbine nozzle section it can expand back out to it's 3 foot diameter... Thus giving the burner cans room to be their normal size in relation to everything else...

 

This is why it's time to do a test print on the five section already modeled... (when the aft frame is done)

 

Anyway, Onwards....

[Canute]

The combustor cans are mostly round, but the aft 1/4 begins to flatten out and ends up as curved openings; like they took a race track oval and bent it into a curve. And that opening may have vertical supports for some strength.

 

How I learned that was we lost an F-4 when a couple of the rods broke off and went into the turbine blades and punched a hole through the engine casing up into one of the fuel cells and thru some hydraulic lines.  They caught fire and jumped out just north of our gunnery  range, attempting to get home. Guy in the front seat quit flying after that..

[Egilman]

9 hours ago, Canute said:

The combustor cans are mostly round, but the aft 1/4 begins to flatten out and ends up as curved openings; like they took a race track oval and bent it into a curve. And that opening may have vertical supports for some strength.

 

How I learned that was we lost an F-4 when a couple of the rods broke off and went into the turbine blades and punched a hole through the engine casing up into one of the fuel cells and thru some hydraulic lines.  They caught fire and jumped out just north of our gunnery  range, attempting to get home. Guy in the front seat quit flying after that..

I would quit flyin as well, better to float than flambé.... At the pressures, flow rates and temps these things run at I'm surprised we don't lose a lot more of them than we do....

 

The Burner Cans on the J-47 are round and flanged at both ends...

The Deflectors, (which are those sheet metal parts that direct the flow from the cans into the turbine nozzles) are separate parts installed behind the turbine firewall..... (fortunately I don't have to model those as they are inside the turbine casing)

 

Flow Deflectors....

These things are amazing pieces of engineering... Most aren't aware but that most of them for their massive size and the amounts of thrust they produce are made of mostly sheet metal welded together....

 

Well anyway, I'm almost done with the Rear Compressor Frame...

I built an entire test piece to figure out the best way to get the Injector Chambers modeled.... It was interesting for a while but I finally sussed it out...

 

So now all I have to do is some intermediate ports and details like the injector plates then the ubiquitous fillets that are all over the place.... Here's a rear 3/4 image of where she stands now....

Well I'm hoping that I get to do a first print before I go into the hosp... But I think it will have to wait till I get back home....

 

Making progress.. Onwards...

 

EG

Edited May 12, 2022 by Egilman

[Canute]

Don't rush it.

[Egilman]

4 hours ago, Canute said:

Don't rush it.

Can't do that... It probably won't be test printed till after I get back... 

 

I noticed a little thing in one of the HD pictures which caused a little bit of investigation and resulted in the Aft Compressor Frame being rebuilt, now on version 3....

 

I had the profile of the mixture chambers all wrong....

 

This is what was...

This is what it is now... (much more accurate)

That looks a LOT better....

 

Onwards my friends... now for the details....

 

EG

Edited May 12, 2022 by Egilman

[Canute]

Sure does look more aerodynamic with the rounded shape. This engine is really shaping up.

 

Good luck today.

[Egilman]

On 5/13/2022 at 5:06 AM, Canute said:

Sure does look more aerodynamic with the rounded shape. This engine is really shaping up.

 

Good luck today.

Thanks Ken, trying to get it as close to the real shapes as possible....

 

Yesterday? a 50 mile round trip to the hospital for a stupid covid test! yeah, nothing but a covid test... They called me at home that evening to do the pre-op interview.... Just Wonderful....

The state of medicine today....

 

I added the injector port bosses to the mixture chamber profiles and the vent bosses to the back of the firewall....

Take a look, what do you guys think?

 

Injector Port Bosses...

I still have the two bosses to add to the right and several more, but they should be fairly easy....

 

Anyway, I been spending my time in detail finishing...

 

I had to re-draw the mounts for their supports and filleting to get them shaped properly... I also added some color differential to show the machined surfaces, it doesn't do anything for the physical geometry, but makes for a much nicer picture presentation...

 

Onwards my friends...

Edited May 14, 2022 by Egilman

[Egilman]

Well a final update on the Aft Compressor Frame....

 

Except for a bit of fitment tweaking she's done....

 

Top...

Showing the top mount which also functions as a compressor pressure relief valve when installed and the 12 stage air bleed port on the right, (that triangular boss) and the capped cool air taps on both sides... The one on the right usually has an elbow for connection to the environmental cooling system while installed on the F-86...

 

Left Side...

The left side motor mount in the center and on the right of that is the anti icing bleed port which is uncapped and the oil intake poet from the oil filter to the rear bearings...

Bottom...

No motor mount on the bottom, what you see on the bottom is the Oil Scavenge port, this pulls the oil out of the bottom of the frame and it flows to the Oil Cooler....

 

Right Side...

And on the right side there is little in the way of connections...

 

3/4 Rear View...

The back side view of course shows the Burner Can flanges and three pressure dump ports... which ones are open depends on the aircraft it is installed in... The F-86 only had one open on the right side which has a dump valve connected to it which would open and dump the compressor pressure when the engine was shut down or there was an inflight engine compressor fire, (usually happened during a compressor stall if the airflow was interrupted long enough to allow the flame to burn back into the compressor... Opening the port created a negative pressure situation  causing the fuel-air mix to dump causing the fire to lose it source of fuel)

 

3/4 Front View...

Not much new to see here just completing the all-round views...  What I need to do now is reduce the size of the mating rings so the out-facing ones will be a few thousandths smaller than the in-facing ones to make sure they fit together when they come off the printer and are cleaned and finally cured....

 

Five weeks to get this far, but it is getting easier as I remember how to do things in Solidworks.... From what I can gather the rest of the sections should be a bit easier, not as much detail to recreate....

 

Anyway, should be ready for test printing in a couple of hours barring any major disasters...

 

Onwards my friends....

 

And thank you for following this excursion in fantasy....

 

EG

[Old Collingwood]

This is Truly excellent work  brother  - it goes far further  than model making  all  the CAD work blows my mind  - its  amazing what you are  doing.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

This is Truly excellent work  brother  - it goes far further  than model making  all  the CAD work blows my mind  - its  amazing what you are  doing.

 

OC.

Well Thank You OC!!  Just putting together a lot of different previous experiences in my life with a little training in software... It's really not that hard... Anyone can do this if they really want to...

 

Post printing update in a few my friend....

 

EG

[Egilman]

Well, my first, self designed, 3D print...

 

The first step was reducing them in SW to 1/32 scale.....

Five parts scaled by just clicking a few buttons with the mouse..... Saved as .STL files which converted them to mesh files..... Then loaded into Lychee Slicer...

Everything set to automatic, supports, angles with Anti-aliasing turned off.. A simple draft print.... What's happening here is the grey parts are fine, the red part has errors that Lychee is unable to fix... So while it was printing, (3.5 hrs) I went back into SW and stepped thru the compressor center section and fixed the error... But, Lychee fixed enough of it to allow it to print...

Once Lychee does it's thing it created the slice files for the printer and copied them to a USB stick which gets plugged into the printer for printing.... Now there is no connection to the printer from the computer so I was following along on the computer watching the progress as it printed... the white layers in the pic is the print progress at this point, just a bit over half way.... (about 3/5ths done)

 

And a printer view...

 

And when it finished printing....

Next step is to wash and cure them.... so the build plate goes into the Wash N Cure machine for a 6 minute alcohol bath and a 10 minute drying period before they are separated from the build plate....

 

Dried, ready to separate....

Separated from the build plate and from each other ready for curing....

4 minutes curing time, which is a bit long, I just wanted to make sure, 2 minutes should be sufficient...

 

So lets see how they turned out... Are they going to mate up? How much detail came thru....

 

I'll let the pics speak for themselves, remember this was a draft print, just to see if it actually works as expected...

And yeah fragile, you have to be careful in how you handle them, they break fairly easily....

 

Well, most of the detail came thru, but at 1/32 scale you do need to adjust your design for greater thickness for strength or be very very careful when you handle them.... I need to adjust the mating parts so they fit easier in the future, but overall, I think it is a success!

 

A little fine tuning and I can work with this especially if I'm careful in how I set up Lychee slicer... The print settings I used are the generic ones for Anycubic Basic Resin that came with the printer...

 

Overall I'm very very pleased....

 

Tell me what you guys think and don't be bashful, everything is welcome at this point....

 

EG

[Canute]

Nicely detailed. Can you get a tougher resin to print this or will that affect the printable detail. Are you doing any of the external plumbing, like the bleed air lines?