HIPEXEC Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #1531 Posted January 30, 2015 I'll tell you....It's taking me an awful long time to figure a good sequence of installation for me. I don't want to get trapped and have to un-do anything. Also, even though I've sailed conventional sail boats for decades...I really don't have a feel for these square riggers. There's a lot of lines that make no sense to me. Sheets and braces I understand...it's the miriad of others I can't figure out. Oh well...if it was easy anybody could build these beautiful models. GLakie 1 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahuna Posted January 30, 2015 Share #1532 Posted January 30, 2015 Rich: This site should help clarify a lot of the rigging: http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/square-rigging.html The site also has a glossary that is very useful: http://sailing-ships.oktett.net/article-index.html I think this is a good topic for our meeting on Saturday. Bring your plans and maybe one of our group can help answer some of your questions. See you Saturday. Frank GLakie and HIPEXEC 2 Quote Frank Completed: Skipjack Kathryn; Dunbrody Sectional Model; Paragon (modified Mayflower) Scratch Build; Planning a Sectional Model of Dunbrody NRG Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robnbill Posted January 30, 2015 Share #1533 Posted January 30, 2015 Rich, Mort recommended this to me along with the AOS. This is a step by step guide with really clear illustrations on the rigging. I think it you would find it very useful in regards to the sails and how the other rigging inter-reacts. Unlike the AOS, this is a general book on how the period ships were rigged so it has a wider applicability but also less specificity than the AOS. Rigging Period Ship Models: A Step-by-Step Guide to the Intracacies of Square-Rig Hardcover – November, 2000 by Lennarth Peterson (Author) Bill HIPEXEC, GLakie and lambsbk 3 Quote Bill Chantilly, VA Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon! Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahuna Posted January 30, 2015 Share #1534 Posted January 30, 2015 I second what Bill recommends - I was just going to send you this link - it would be a very worthwhile purchase. I have his other book and it's great. http://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Period-Models-Step---Step/dp/1557509700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1422589479&sr=8-1&keywords=rigging+ships Frank HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote Frank Completed: Skipjack Kathryn; Dunbrody Sectional Model; Paragon (modified Mayflower) Scratch Build; Planning a Sectional Model of Dunbrody NRG Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #1535 Posted January 30, 2015 Frank, I will bring my stuff Saturday. The only problem I have is that I have to leave a 11 since an important event originally scheduled for Friday got changed to Saturday just an hour ago. Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #1536 Posted January 30, 2015 Here's what I'm working with to date. One small photo from the Constructo manual. Sail names from another pub. Constructo's prints which describe everything with numbers that have to be cross referenced to figure out what it is and where it goes. I've made my own sketches to assist me in installing all the blocks, etc in their proper place. I've even practiced threading line through installed blocks with my beading needles. They work just fine. After all the Super Bowl stuff dies done I'll start rigging one yard at a time. augie, Jack12477, GLakie and 2 others 5 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted January 30, 2015 Share #1537 Posted January 30, 2015 Hi Rich: It might be a good idea to tie all those blocks on the masts and spars before you attach them together. Notice that sling and parrel on the upper yard in the 3rd pic. Hooking those up when you do get ready to attach the yards, might be a good idea. Trying to do it later after some of the rigging is in place will be harder. You'll be fine, just take your time. Cheers Jack12477, Sjors and HIPEXEC 3 Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #1538 Posted January 30, 2015 All my yards are easily removed for detail work on individual yards. That's why I built a workholding jig for the yards. Thanks for all your great suggestions. They all help. GLakie 1 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragzz Posted January 30, 2015 Share #1539 Posted January 30, 2015 wow its looking great .rigging will be fun cant wait to see it all done keep up the great work GLakie and HIPEXEC 2 Quote this is my dry docks side build hms victory/corel http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/4698-hms-victroy-by-dragzz-corel-scale-198/ side build waiting on parts /king of the mississippi/ al kit http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/3490-king-of-the-mississippi-by-dragzz-al-scale180/?hl=%20king%20%20the%20%20mississipp current build mare nostrum al kit http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8125-mare-nostrum-by-artesania-latina-scale-135-by-dragzz-small/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambsbk Posted January 30, 2015 Share #1540 Posted January 30, 2015 Mahuna...I just ordered it....thanks for the info. Rich, sorry to hijack your log with this stuff. Probably good info for the resources section of the site. BTW - that jig you made on the previous page - does that mean you are working on this from the bedroom? :) HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote Dave U.S.S. Constitution 1:96 Revell build with fiber optic lighting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #1541 Posted January 30, 2015 Bedroom is my shipyard! GLakie, lambsbk and dgbot 3 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texxn5 Posted January 31, 2015 Share #1542 Posted January 31, 2015 Looking good Rich, the Conny rigging is a challenge for sure... HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote John Current Current Builds: US Brig Niagara on my website FINISHED BUILD LOGS: New Bedford Whaleboat - page on my Morgan Website: http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com/whaleboat-build-log-by-john-fleming.html C.W. Morgan - Model Shipways 1:64 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1785-cw-morgan-by-texxn5-johnf-ms-164-kit/ USS Constitution - Revell 1:96 http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1796-uss-constitution-by-texxn5-johnf-revell-196-kit/ website US Brig Niagara Model http://www.niagaramodel.com website Charles W Morgan Model http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com website PROXXON DISCOUNT TOOL STORE http://proxxontoolsdiscount.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #1543 Posted February 4, 2015 My mizzen sail is partially rigged. I "billowed" the sail to look like a moderate breeze is blowing. I do not want limp hanging sails. At this rate it will take me ten more weeks of rigging to get all sails on. GuntherMT, dgbot, GLakie and 6 others 9 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted February 4, 2015 Share #1544 Posted February 4, 2015 The billowing effect looks good Rich! What did you apply to the sail to make it hold it's shape? Was it watered down PVA or Hair Spray? I've thought of using different sized balloons to use as a form, but I don't know. Maybe I'll just have to experiment. It's the one thing about putting sails on mine, when I get to it, that's been giving me second thoughts about having sails at all. Cheers HIPEXEC 1 Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgbot Posted February 4, 2015 Share #1545 Posted February 4, 2015 Nice sails Rich. David B HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote Work in progress USS Maine in cardstock.http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7446-uss-maine-by-dgbot-hmv-card/#entry220003 Completed Blockade runner Teazer http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6063-blockade-runner-teazer-by-dgbot-card-stock/#entry175967 Completed The Monitor Lehigh http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/6920-the-monitor-lehigh-by-dgbot-card-model/#entry203680 Completed Kingston Class MCVD http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/10-kit-build-logs-in-progress/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #1546 Posted February 4, 2015 The billowing effect looks good Rich! What did you apply to the sail to make it hold it's shape? Was it watered down PVA or Hair Spray? I've thought of using different sized balloons to use as a form, but I don't know. Maybe I'll just have to experiment. It's the one thing about putting sails on mine, when I get to it, that's been giving me second thoughts about having sails at all. Cheers Geaorge, After I lashed the sail to the yard, I wet it with water and rigged it onto the jig/workholder I created. I set the sheets to the angle I wanted and used a blow dryer to get the shape. As it dried I used my fingers and a brush to get the shape just right....then I used my Admiral's hair spray on it. It's water soluble so I used a liberal amount. When it all dried....it held its shape just fine. Good luck, Rich GLakie and GuntherMT 2 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack12477 Posted February 4, 2015 Share #1547 Posted February 4, 2015 All my yards are easily removed for detail work on individual yards. That's why I built a workholding jig for the yards. Thanks for all your great suggestions. They all help. Rich, I'm looking for ideas for jigs to hold my yards, can you post a picture of yours here? HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote Jack "No one is as smart as all of us" - Is ón cheann a thagann an cheird The craft comes from the head --------------------------------------------- Current build: US Constellation Non-ship builds: USCG UH-65A Dolphin M16 Multi-gun motor carriage diorama M4A3 Sherman Tanks dioramas 1936-1939 Mercedes Benz 540K 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II JSDF Light Armor Vehicle Figures: The Last Bridge: Raider Reaper Edge of Universe: Ianis The Last Bridge: Vadim with cart Completed build log(s): 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne, Willie L Bennett 1888 50 ft Gaff-rigged Ice Yacht Scratch Build The Sullivans (DD 537) Liberty Ship SS John W Brown USS England (DE 635), Artesania Latina Titanic Lifeboat Gallery: Swift , Armed Virginia Sloop, Santisima Trinidad Captain's Launch , 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne Other: Rhinebeck Aerodrome Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share #1548 Posted February 5, 2015 Rich, I'm looking for ideas for jigs to hold my yards, can you post a picture of yours here? Jack, just look on my page 107 and I already posted a picture of it. Let me know if you want to see different angles. It's just a post with a fairly strong clamp screwed to the top. It holds my yards very tightly. GLakie 1 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share #1549 Posted February 5, 2015 Help! How do I attach halyards to fife rails? On my first model all went to cleats which I knew from actually sailing how to do.j Dimitris71, WackoWolf, canoe21 and 1 other 4 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLakie Posted February 5, 2015 Share #1550 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) First, a disclaimer Rich! I can tell you the general way, but there's a "right" way to do it and until I find the post, or someone else who knows more than me tells you the "correct" way, don't commit by gluing. The way I read goes kind of like this: First, bend the line in half and make a U shape and hook it around the bottom of the pin, then cross over and loop it around the top of the pin, then repeat one more time, like a figure-8, and tie it off with a half-hitch on top. Then coil the remainder of the line and hang it over the pin. Like I said, this is NOT entirely correct, but I'll try to find where I saw the info, and get back to you. It might have been a You-Tube video I saw, but I can't remember. ----Senior moment! Edit: I found the info. The video says 3 wraps, but for modeling, I think 2 would be enough. Note the fall starts on the right and loops to the left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awiFzE5SXzU Cheers Edited February 5, 2015 by GLakie HIPEXEC and Sjors 2 Quote GEORGE Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn. Member of the Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack12477 Posted February 5, 2015 Share #1551 Posted February 5, 2015 Rich, Thanks ! Guess I scrolled right by it when I was searching you log. Easy idea ! GLakie and HIPEXEC 2 Quote Jack "No one is as smart as all of us" - Is ón cheann a thagann an cheird The craft comes from the head --------------------------------------------- Current build: US Constellation Non-ship builds: USCG UH-65A Dolphin M16 Multi-gun motor carriage diorama M4A3 Sherman Tanks dioramas 1936-1939 Mercedes Benz 540K 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II JSDF Light Armor Vehicle Figures: The Last Bridge: Raider Reaper Edge of Universe: Ianis The Last Bridge: Vadim with cart Completed build log(s): 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne, Willie L Bennett 1888 50 ft Gaff-rigged Ice Yacht Scratch Build The Sullivans (DD 537) Liberty Ship SS John W Brown USS England (DE 635), Artesania Latina Titanic Lifeboat Gallery: Swift , Armed Virginia Sloop, Santisima Trinidad Captain's Launch , 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne Other: Rhinebeck Aerodrome Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robnbill Posted February 5, 2015 Share #1552 Posted February 5, 2015 If you can get to all your pins to tie them that way it is great. I used the method a number of others on this site used. I would fish the end of the line through the appropriate belaying pin hole in top of the rail. Once I was satisfied with the line, checking where it ran down through the rigging and I could sufficiently tension it, I would put a small amount of Thick CA on the end of a belaying pin and push it down through the hole. This would lock the line into the rail. Once the glue was set, I would snip the line off as close as possible to the pin rail. Later I would come back and add the coils over the top of the belaying pin. These were made off ship and could be set so they looked good. Then I would loop these over the pin and glue the back of them to the rail. This was what worked for me. I tried loping the lines over the pins like they actually do on a ship, but I could not do it and make it look as good as the above method. Bill HIPEXEC, GLakie and augie 3 Quote Bill Chantilly, VA Its not the size of the ship, but the bore of the cannon! Current Build: Scratch Build Brig Eagle Completed Build Log: USS Constitution - Mamoli Completed Build Gallery: USS Constitution - Mamoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augie Posted February 5, 2015 Share #1553 Posted February 5, 2015 The method suggested by Bill works very well. An additional benefit is that the line going through the hole doesn't stick out in front of the pin rail and make it hard for you to attach the pre-made coil. Just be absolutely sure you have the right tension on the line before you glue in the pin. GLakie and HIPEXEC 2 Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modeler12 Posted February 5, 2015 Share #1554 Posted February 5, 2015 I'll tell you....It's taking me an awful long time to figure a good sequence of installation for me. I don't want to get trapped and have to un-do anything. Also, even though I've sailed conventional sail boats for decades...I really don't have a feel for these square riggers. There's a lot of lines that make no sense to me. Sheets and braces I understand...it's the miriad of others I can't figure out. Oh well...if it was easy anybody could build these beautiful models. I felt the same way when I was at the stage you are now. The book that Robnbill recommended was an eye opener for me. Hardly any words but great pictures that clarify the rigging. Sometime ago someone mentioned that there is not a redundant line on one of those old ships, Now I understand why that is true. In California we have a public library system that allows us to get books from many libraries in the state as well as Nevada and Utah. I have been able to get all sorts of good books that way. You might check that out for Arizona. Your local library should be able to help. HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote Jay Current build Cross Section USS Constitution http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/ Finished USS Constitution: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/ 'A picture is worth a . . . . .' More is better . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modeler12 Posted February 6, 2015 Share #1555 Posted February 6, 2015 Rich, I don't know how far back I have to go in your log, but I am curious how you attached the netting on top of the rail and what you used to simulate the hammocks. Your plans are probably a bit different from mine, which did include some nice brass etched pieces for the stantions but nothing about the hammock storage. HIPEXEC and GLakie 2 Quote Jay Current build Cross Section USS Constitution http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/ Finished USS Constitution: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/ 'A picture is worth a . . . . .' More is better . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modeler12 Posted February 6, 2015 Share #1556 Posted February 6, 2015 Help! How do I attach halyards to fife rails? On my first model all went to cleats which I knew from actually sailing how to do.j Perhaps the following video might be of interest: GLakie, src, Mahuna and 1 other 4 Quote Jay Current build Cross Section USS Constitution http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10120-cross-section-forward-area-of-the-uss-constitution/ Finished USS Constitution: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/103-uss-constitution-by-modeler12/ 'A picture is worth a . . . . .' More is better . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuntherMT Posted February 6, 2015 Share #1557 Posted February 6, 2015 Rich - Constructo had a small drawing on the plans of the Carmen showing how to tie off the rigging to the belaying pins, and it is what I followed for the Carmen. Here is a scan of that drawing: GLakie, HIPEXEC and WackoWolf 3 Quote Brian Mystery project coming soon! Current build - Medway Longboat Complete - Armed Virginia Sloop Complete - Carmen (First Build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usedtosail Posted February 6, 2015 Share #1558 Posted February 6, 2015 Rich, I thought you were asking how to tie a line directly to a rail, without a belaying pin. I have had to do that a few times and I don't know if there is a right way to do it. Maybe someone else knows? GLakie and HIPEXEC 2 Quote - Tom - Current Build: Vanguard Speedy Completed: Vanguard Duchess of Kingston, Stove Project, Ships Wheel Project, NRG Capstan Project, Billings Half Moon, Dumas Chris Craft 1938 27' Triple Cockpit Barrel Back, Panart Santa Lucia , Model Shipways Constitution , MS Bounty Launch , HMS Beagle Member: Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share #1559 Posted February 6, 2015 Rich, I don't know how far back I have to go in your log, but I am curious how you attached the netting on top of the rail and what you used to simulate the hammocks. Your plans are probably a bit different from mine, which did include some nice brass etched pieces for the stantions but nothing about the hammock storage. I made the hammock cranes or stanchions out of flattened brass stock I bought at a hobby shop. Constructo only gave me round wire to made them and I didn't think that gave me much gluing surface. After I shaped the flat stock I glued them on to the rails with CA glue. I used some soil cloth I had laying around because it naturally wanted to curl up in the shape of a rolled hammock. I tied each one (ugh!) and slipped them into the netting. Getting the netting nice and straight is a pain. By the way, the brass etched pieces they gave you should have a nib sticking down that will help holding them in place. Mine just depend on the CA glue which seems fine for now. GLakie 1 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIPEXEC Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share #1560 Posted February 6, 2015 Perhaps the following video might be of interest: Thanks for the great video! dgbot and GLakie 2 Quote Rich Rich USS Constitution by hipexec (Finished build) Virginia Pilot Boat 1805 (gallery - first build) USS Syren (USS Argus) by Hipexec Joshua Slocum's Spray by HIPEXEC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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