Glenn-UK Posted February 13 Author #421 Posted February 13 Adding Futtock Staves to Main Mast I have now added the futtock staves to both the main and mizzen masts. I have attached a series of photos of the process I use. I placed a length of blacken brass rod in my quad hands and positioned it against the shrouds in it required position. The brass rod is oversized and will be trimmed once the catharpins have been added. The copper rod is then secured to the shrouds in two places, as indicated by the blue arrows. Once this is done the quads hand can be removed. It is then a process of securing the the brass rod to each of the shrouds. I use a figure of 8 pattern for this. To do this the first diagonal is made using a overhand knot. The direction of the tied knot, when tightened is indicated by the blue line The two free end are then repositioned so second overhand knot can be tied and the direction of the knot, when tightened, is shown by the blue line. After a touch of ca is then applied to the knots and the free ends are then trimmed. It did not take too much time or effort to complete the task. schooner, mtaylor, AON and 5 others 8 Quote Glenn (UK)
schooner Posted February 13 #422 Posted February 13 Nice clear explanation and photos! davec, ECK, mtaylor and 1 other 3 1 Quote Tim Current build: Continental Navy Frigate ALFRED (build log) Past builds: Steam Tug SEGUIN (build log in the kits 1850-1900 section) Liberty Ship SS Stephen Hopkins (Gallery & Build Log) USS Basilone (DD-824) (Gallery & Build Log) USS Olympia (Gallery) USS Kirk (FF-1087) (Gallery & Build Log)
Glenn-UK Posted February 13 Author #423 Posted February 13 16 minutes ago, schooner said: Nice clear explanation and photos! Thank you. mtaylor and davec 2 Quote Glenn (UK)
Glenn-UK Posted February 15 Author #424 Posted February 15 Bowsprit Gammoning Today I added the gammoning to the bowsprit. It took two attempts. On the first attempt I did not have the figurehead in place. I discovered I could not fit the figurehead once the gammoning was complete as the helmet was fouling with the wolding. Unfortunately I managed to damage the figurehead, the tip of sword broke off. I will try to reglue once the bowsprit rigging is complete, The bow rails also fell off which actually made adding the gammoning easier. I started the gammoning process by cutting a long length of 0.75mm black thread. I then passed the thread through a beeswax block a couple of times and melted it using a hairdryer. I then made a thimble at one end of the gammoning thread and checked the thread would pass through it. In the next photo I have started the gammoning rigging. The thread has been looped around the bowsprit and the free end has been fed through the thimble. In the next photo I have made 4 passes around the bowsprit. There is still some traces of beeswax on the gammoning thread but once the gammoning is complete I will use the hairdryer again to remove. The gammoning is progressing well, 8 loops have now been added in the next photo. I ended up doing 10 loops and then tied off the free end. The excess beeswax has been removed with the hairdryer. Thukydides, ECK, mtaylor and 6 others 9 Quote Glenn (UK)
AON Posted February 15 #425 Posted February 15 Sorry to read about the damage to the figurehead. I'm afraid it might only get more crowded from here on! mtaylor, Glenn-UK, ECK and 1 other 3 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
Glenn-UK Posted February 15 Author #426 Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, AON said: Sorry to read about the damage to the figurehead. I'm afraid it might only get more crowded from here on! It does get crowded and the model is prone to more mishaps. davec, mtaylor and AON 2 1 Quote Glenn (UK)
Glenn-UK Posted February 16 Author #427 Posted February 16 Bowsprit Shrouds I have managed to reattached the broken sword to the figurehead. I also reattached the rails. It was then a case of adding the 4 shrouds for the bowsprit. The rigging of the shrouds was relatively easy to do. Next up will be to add the foremast stay and preventer. Knocklouder, Mr Whippy, scrubbyj427 and 10 others 13 Quote Glenn (UK)
allanyed Posted February 16 #428 Posted February 16 Your build continues to be superb! One question hope you don't mind.. Is there are reason the stay has a single collar with the heart rather than the double collar? Just curious and I realize at 1:64 this is a tough one. From Lees The Masting and Rigging English Ships of War pages 41 and 169 below for a better explanation of what I asking about. I looked to see if both methods were common after 1730 but so far I cannot find any information contemporary to Indefatigable 1794 with a single collar. Thanks Glenn Allan mtaylor and Glenn-UK 1 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
Glenn-UK Posted February 16 Author #429 Posted February 16 3 minutes ago, allanyed said: Your build continues to be superb! One question hope you don't mind.. Is there are reason the stay has a single collar with the heart rather than the double collar? Just curious and I realize at 1:64 this is a tough one. From Lees The Masting and Rigging English Ships of War pages 41 and 169 below for a better explanation of what I asking about. I looked to see if both methods were common after 1730 but so far I cannot find any information contemporary to Indefatigable 1794 with a single collar. Thanks Glenn Allan Thanks for the info and kind comments. I generally follow the rigging plans provided with the kit. I also refer to Longridge and Petersson's books to help to get a better understanding. The forestay and forestay preventor stays are open heart type fixed to the bowsprit (Type D in your photo) and closed heart types fitted to the actual stays as shown in the photo below. ECK, chris watton and mtaylor 3 Quote Glenn (UK)
allanyed Posted February 16 #430 Posted February 16 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Glenn-UK said: The forestay and forestay preventor stays are open heart type fixed to the bowsprit (Type D in your photo) Yes, that is my understanding, but Lees, Longridge, and Petersson all show doubled collars thus my confusion as to why the kit would show a single if the double is what was actually done. No matter, your build and the kit are super!! Allan Edited February 16 by allanyed Glenn-UK and mtaylor 1 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
AON Posted February 17 #431 Posted February 17 FYI - This is the image from Petersson's Rigging Period Ship Models (pg.20) that was being referred to. It is a small detail that would not be spotted by most. Mr Whippy and mtaylor 2 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
Glenn-UK Posted February 17 Author #432 Posted February 17 20 minutes ago, AON said: FYI - This is the image from Petersson's Rigging Period Ship Models (pg.20) that was being referred to. It is a small detail that would not be spotted by most. On the Indy the fore stay and preventor are not looped around the bowsprit and spritsail as shown in Petersonn's book. They are actually located nearer the bow and are only looped around the bowsprit. The bowsprit shroud deadeyes are also fitted to these loops. AON, allanyed and mtaylor 3 Quote Glenn (UK)
AON Posted February 17 #433 Posted February 17 There are claimed to be a few "issues" with the images in the book. mtaylor and Glenn-UK 1 1 Quote Alan O'Neill "only dead fish go with the flow" Ongoing Build (31 Dec 2013) - HMS BELLEROPHON (1786), POF scratch build, scale 1:64, 74 gun 3rd rate Man of War, Arrogant Class Member of the Model Shipwrights of Niagara, Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada (2016), and the Nautical Research Guild (since 2014) Associate member of the Nautical Research and Model Ship Society (2021) Offshore member of The Society of Model Shipwrights (2021)
Glenn-UK Posted February 17 Author #434 Posted February 17 (edited) Foremast Stay and Preventor I have now added the foremast stay and foremast preventor and I have detailed the method I used to complete this task. I started off with making a thimble in one end of the stay and preventor threads. I made sure the thread would pass through the thimble. Next I added a mouse to each thread. This was a two part process. I used some 0.1mm black thread for the central section and then added some 0.25mm black thread before, over and after the 0.1mm black thread. The mouse does slide up and down the thread. The stay and preventor were then wrapped around the foremast and the free ends passed though their respective thimbles. The position of each mouse was then adjusted and a touch a ca glue was used to prevent further movement of the mouse. The close heart was then positioned in the stay (and preventor). I used my quad hands for this, certainly one of the best and essential tools used for my model making when adding the rigging. I have started to add the seizing in the next photo. I ended up added three seizing's to the stay and preventor. I created a thimble to one end of each of the lanyards and then added them to the closed hearts. It was then a simple case of adding a few loops. The completed stay and preventor, ready and waiting for the snaking to be added. I am currently experimenting with different methods for adding the snaking as my first two attempts did not passed muster, fingers crossed it will be third time lucky. Edited February 17 by Glenn-UK RossR, TJM, wvdhee and 7 others 8 2 Quote Glenn (UK)
allanyed Posted February 18 #435 Posted February 18 (edited) 10 hours ago, AON said: There are claimed to be a few "issues" with the images in the book. This seems to be the case but this book's drawings are a good guide in many respects as long as further research of contemporary based information is done to confirm or correct any item. Unfortunately it is somewhat limited as it is based solely on the contemporary model Melampus (36) 1785 which as Petersson points out on page 1, has been attended to by restorers over the years. Rigging restoration is not uncommon and based on the single collar, it appears someone may have gotten it wrong. Allan Edited February 18 by allanyed Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
Gregory Posted February 18 #436 Posted February 18 On 2/16/2024 at 2:38 PM, allanyed said: Is there are reason the stay has a single collar with the heart rather than the double collar? You might ask Chris. mtaylor 1 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon
Glenn-UK Posted February 18 Author #437 Posted February 18 (edited) Adding The Snaking This is this first time I have added snaking to one of my models. I tried a few different methods to add between the fore stay and preventor but I really struggled to get them looking anywhere near passable. This morning I thought I had thought of a fool proof method, which was based on what I use to do when building Airfix models boats as a young boy. The method was essentially to pre-make the snaking and then to attach to the stay and preventor. I started this process by making a template. I added a series of pins where the snaking connects to the stay and preventor. A length of thread was then wrapped around these pins. A coat of diluted pva was applied to the thread. and left to dry. I was hoping that, once the thread had dried out, the thread would retain the required shape and that I could then tie it to the stay and preventor. I made a schoolboy error in that, as the diluted glue dried the thread had become stuck, in some places to the template. I lost the shape as I tried to release the thread from the template. Although I thought the method was a viable option I decided to abandon this approach. All was not lost. I retained the template and clamped it to the stay and preventor. It was then a case of securing the thread to the stay and preventor. I ended up using a clove hitch to secure the thread to the preventor (top). I used a simple wrap around for the stay (bottom). I did not make a great job of the snaking but, compared to some of my previous efforts, I am reasonably happy with the end result. The final task was to apply some Indian ink to dye the snaking. The snaking is not perfect but I do not have the patience or will power to rip it off (again) to get a better end result. Edited February 18 by Glenn-UK Alexander Bulimov, AJohnson, ECK and 11 others 14 Quote Glenn (UK)
AJohnson Posted February 18 #438 Posted February 18 (edited) Hi Glenn, Thanks for sharing your tips on trying out snaking. I have only tried it once on a build and found it to be a torment. Hopefully one of our MSW Sages will come to the rescue. I think yours will look very good indeed when you have blacked them with ink. Edited February 18 by AJohnson Glenn-UK, Mr Whippy, mtaylor and 1 other 3 1 Quote Andrew Current builds:- HM Gun-brig Sparkler - Vanguard (1/64) , HMAV Bounty - Caldercraft (1/64) Completed (Kits):- Vanguard Models (1/64) :- HM Cutter Trial , Nisha - Brixham trawler Caldercraft (1/64) :- HMS Orestes(Mars), HM Cutter Sherbourne Paper Shipwright (1/250) :- TSS Earnslaw, Puffer Starlight
Glenn-UK Posted February 18 Author #439 Posted February 18 7 minutes ago, AJohnson said: Hi Glenn, Thanks for sharing your tips on trying out snaking. I have only tried it once on a build and found it to be a torment. Hopefully one of our MSW Sages will come to the rescue. I thinks yours will look very good indeed when you have blacked them with ink. Many thanks, I know I could have done a better job. The template really helped and I feel confident I can make a better job for the main mast stay snaking. allanyed and Mr Whippy 2 Quote Glenn (UK)
Glenn-UK Posted February 21 Author #440 Posted February 21 Futtock Shrouds Over the last few days I have been working on adding the futtock shrouds to the right-hand side. The first task was to make all the shrouds for both the right-hand left hand side. Next I populated the mast platforms (both sides) with the deadeyes. Once that was done I ran the right-hand side shrouds in and used clamps to apply to light tension. I then applied a coat of diluted pva to the shrouds and left them dry. The clamped shrouds are shown in the photo below. Next each shroud was wrapped around the back of the futtock stave. A clamp was used to keep the line in place. The shroud shown in the next photo is now is having the seizing added. When adding the seizing I first ran the seizing thread through a block of beeswax a couple of times which I have found has made it easier to work with. Once each seizing is complete I use a hairdryer to melt the beeswax before adding a touch a ca. The method of wrapping and securing the shroud I have using is not strictly in accordance with the two methods outlined in Longridge's book but it is a close enough approximation for my needs and ability. The completed right-hand side foremast is shown in the next photo. The complete right-hand side main mast is shown in the next two photos. The mizzen mast proved to be a bit more of a challenge. In order to leave room for wrapping the topgallant shrouds around the bottom of the deadeye stroops I placed some thread around the stroop base, as shown on the next photo. Unfortunately thread I used for this was too thick and I there was too much vertical movement of the stroops within the platform once all the shrouds had been added. I was able to carefully remove all the seizing's and start again. Second time around I used a much thinner thread, as can be seen below. These yielded much better results and once seized, as can be seen in the next photo. I will now add the ratline lines to all the right-hand side futtock shrouds before moving on to repeat the process for the left-hand side. Dave B, mtaylor, AON and 6 others 9 Quote Glenn (UK)
Glenn-UK Posted February 21 Author #441 Posted February 21 Futtock Shroud Ratlines It did not take me long to add the ratlines to the right-hand side futtock shrouds. I used a template to set the distance between the shrouds. The completed foremast futtock shroud The following is not a great photo showing the completed main and mizzen mast futtock shrouds. A final picture of the Indy aliluke, AJohnson, ECK and 12 others 15 Quote Glenn (UK)
Glenn-UK Posted February 23 Author #442 Posted February 23 (edited) Futtock Shrouds - Completed It was a intense day in the shipyard yesterday as I wanted to complete the futtock shrouds as I will have very limited shipyard time over the next few days. Working in to the early evening the shrouds were finally completed. This is another milestone reached with this project but there is still a few more months work ahead to complete the build. The completed fore mast futtock shrouds is shown in the next two photos. The completed main mast futtock shrouds are shown in the next two photos. I might need to redo one of the catharpins which looks a bit odd in the photo below The completed mizzen mast futtock shrouds are shown in the next two photos. I might redo the aft catharpin which is a bit oversized, as it is a bit long as can be seen in the second photo below. Finally a few pictures of the Indy. My white backdrop is not big enough for taking pictures of the Indy. Edited February 23 by Glenn-UK AON, Blue Ensign, AJohnson and 15 others 17 1 Quote Glenn (UK)
allanyed Posted February 23 #443 Posted February 23 Hi Glenn, Sorry if this was raised before. There are no wooden hoops shown above and below the rope wooldings on the masts which I thought was always done so they did not get chafed or move on the mast. Was it not as common as I thought or could this have been an anomaly on Indefatigable? Regardless, she continues to be a superb build. Allan Glenn-UK 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
Glenn-UK Posted February 23 Author #444 Posted February 23 24 minutes ago, allanyed said: Hi Glenn, Sorry if this was raised before. There are no wooden hoops shown above and below the rope wooldings on the masts which I thought was always done so they did not get chafed or move on the mast. Was it not as common as I thought or could this have been an anomaly on Indefatigable? Regardless, she continues to be a superb build. Allan Thanks Allan I have no idea regarding wooden hoops. I am just following the plan sheets provided with the kit for for the position of the woldings and iron banding. Cheers Glenn mtaylor, Gregory and RossR 3 Quote Glenn (UK)
chris watton Posted February 23 #445 Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Glenn-UK said: Thanks Allan I have no idea regarding wooden hoops. I am just following the plan sheets provided with the kit for for the position of the woldings and iron banding. Cheers Glenn The wooden hoops are never shown because scaled down to 64th, they would be less than 0.6mm wide (1.5 " or 38.1mm wide full size). Gregory, Mr Whippy, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook
allanyed Posted February 24 #446 Posted February 24 Hi Chris I looked at a number of contemporary drawings of masts and as you say, the wooden hoops on either side of the wooldings are not shown on any that I have seen. Looking at photos of contemporary models they all have the wooden hoops above and below the wooldings but these are all 1:48 scale so a good bit more noticeable than they would be at 1:64. Allan mtaylor and Mr Whippy 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
Blue Ensign Posted February 24 #447 Posted February 24 Kit provided hoops at 1:64 scale are probably not feasible, but that doesn't mean they can't be added at that scale. I use sub 1mm strips cut from a Manilla folder which fulfil the purpose very well. They stick easily to the mast, conform to the shape around the cheeks and fish, and are the right colour. B.E. Mr Whippy, RossR, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: Medway-longboat-1742-by-blue-ensign-½”-scale Completed builds: HMS Indefatigable-1794-by-blue-ensign-vanguard-models-1:64-scale HMS Sphinx 1775 by Blue Ensign. 1:64 scale - Vanguard Models Queen-Anne-Royal-Barge-circa-1700-by-Blue-Ensign Fifie fishing boat Lady Eleanor Muirneag-1903-–-a-scottish-zulu-fishing-boat-164-scale-based-on-the-vanguard-models-zulu-kit/ HM Cutter Alert 1777 HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 18th-century-English-longboat-by-Blue-Ensign-ms-148-scale/ 18thc English Pinnace by Blue Ensign-Model-Shipways-1:24 scale/ HMS-Pegasus-by-Blue-Ensign-finished-Victory-Models-1:64-scale/ Heller Seventy-four 1:150 scale - modified Le Superbe/Le Glorieux kit after Boudriot, waterline setting with sails. The schooner Pickle, Jotika pob kit 1:64 scale, my interpretation.
allanyed Posted February 24 #448 Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Blue Ensign said: Kit provided hoops at 1:64 scale are probably not feasible, but that doesn't mean they can't be added at that scale. Well said B.E. I did a 1:64 drawing to see if they show up and they are quite clear when printed. I am guessing that it would not be difficult to include a sketch or verbal instruction about these hoops even if supplying material is impractical. Allan Blue Ensign 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
James H Posted February 24 #449 Posted February 24 I never added them to mine. It's a small detail that I'm sure most casual builders wouldn't even know about. It's not really feasible for @Glenn-UK to add them at this stage, and I don't think his beautiful build will look any worse off for not having them. mgatrost, Blue Ensign, Glenn-UK and 6 others 9 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: Zip, nada! On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. HMS Harpy - 1796 (production prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48
Glenn-UK Posted March 1 Author #450 Posted March 1 (edited) Indy Build Status My time in the shipyard has been very limited over the last 10 days so progress has been slow but I have completed adding the stays and preventors for the main and mizzen masts. I have attached a couple of photo's of the current build status. Since my last post I have added the main stay and preventor. The aspect which I found difficult to add was the snaking. It took me a few false starts before the snaking was completed to an acceptable level, albeit it is far from perfect. Next I added the mizzen mast stay which was a very easy task to complete. Before I move on to adding the top and topgallant masts there are a few more blocks which I need to add to the three masts, as shown below. Edited March 1 by Glenn-UK mtaylor, KurtH, davyboy and 9 others 12 Quote Glenn (UK)
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