Egilman Posted May 5 Author #61 Posted May 5 Latest Update: Blocking out the Transmission.... Left side... Right side... In the frame mounted to the Differential case... Left side upper and lower angles.... Now I'm ready to add the details.... Stay tuned my friends... Onwards... Jack12477, gjdale, Haliburton and 2 others 5 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Landlubber Mike Posted May 5 #62 Posted May 5 Amazing work! Egilman, mtaylor, chadwijm6 and 1 other 4 Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: Hs129B-2 1/48 SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans)
Egilman Posted May 6 Author #63 Posted May 6 (edited) Thank you Mike... It's appreciated.... Well another minor setback, my initial design doesn't work, everything that needs to be there won't fit.... and it's basic fitment, the detail HAS to be there and reworking the current design just didn't cut it, it was becoming even more convoluted a mess trying to fix the original so I decided to start fresh, take the best parts of the original and adjust to what needs to be as I go.... this is where I stopped adding detail and re-evaluated... The Real deal... That is from a 1911 Marmon Speedster The one below is the Marmon Wasp.... What was before.... And what is now with the added changes.... Yep the differences are subtle, but they make all the difference when fitting details where they need to be... And, like almost always, it is close to the finish when this issue pops up... But such is the life of a design draughtsman.... RE-starting the detail design part now.... {chuckle} Onwards Brothers, onwards.... Edited May 6 by Egilman Jack12477, gjdale, chadwijm6 and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 9 Author #64 Posted May 9 Well, I've gotten the Transmission to where I'm going to call it done.... Might still need some tweaking as other parts are added... But we will do those if any when we get there... Here is what she looks like... And with the axle/differential.... The yellow is for glamor purposes... {chuckle} In the frame... I would say she is 95% accurate, there were still a few spots without enough coverage to be sure, but a lot of hints to what had to be there... Anyway I'm calling it done for now... And the usual overall shot... Onwards!!! Jack12477, Seventynet, Canute and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Canute Posted May 10 #65 Posted May 10 Didn't realize the tranny was bolted to the rear-end. Very interesting. mtaylor, Jack12477 and Egilman 3 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild
Egilman Posted May 10 Author #66 Posted May 10 Yep, this was still the era of open air tapered clutches, they had just began using universal joints to transmit power so the only place the Tranny could go was in front of the Differential.... You see a lot of people use the 20th/21st century term Transaxle for this but it wasn't that at all, there is no mechanical connection between the two, the differential can be completely disassembled without touching the tranny... When they perfected the disc clutch, that's when the engineering concept changed, a flat thin flywheel with a thin clutch plate allowed the creation of the bell housing which acted as the mount for the Transmission and removed the need for rear engine mounts... It also reversed the method of mounting to two points forward and one point rear... (usually at the end of the Tranny, the system still in use today) This made the Engine Clutch and Tranny one single assembly which made manufacturing even more efficient.... One of the residuals from the system this car has is the thrust bearing with it's integral universal joint in the middle of the frame became the carrier bearing along with the split driveline with the rear suspension pivot point remaining the same clear into the late '50's early 60's... (where we still saw it on the light trucks of the era and eventually lead into the two link coil spring rear suspension we saw on the 60's/70's chevy pickup trucks) So many of the features of this car carried long into the future of the automobile and didn't really disappear until the early 2000's..... She was state of the art in her day.... chadwijm6, mtaylor, Haliburton and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 15 Author #67 Posted May 15 Another update.... Getting ready for the design of the Thrust Collar... it mounts to the Thrust Crossmember and receives the Thrust Tube from the Rear End.... The Transmission is connected to the thrust tube and all the parts need to align accurately.... To this end I drew an engineering sketch of the locations and alignments of all the pieces, it looks like this... The three lines across the top are the top flange of the right frame rail... The lower horizontal line represents the clutch/engine output shaft line.... The vertical line represents the flange side of the thrust crossmember and the circle behind it is the first universal joint... Then there is the box that pops up above the floorline in the cockpit, it has the cross shaft of the shifter and emergency brake which is represented by the small circle on the box's centerline....The next feature is the large circle, it represents the thrust head that resides in the thrust collar, inside it is the circle for the second universal joint and the vertical center line is the split line between the collars socket and it's retaining cover... Between the centers of the two universals is the transfer shaft, a short driveshaft to allow the driveline to flex into the suspension pivot point the second universal sited at the suspension flex point... Behind that we have the driveline/thrust tube centerline which runs thru the transmission to the Differential center... The large circle represents the Rear Axle flanges and the right brace represents the Differential case perpendicular to the driveline centerline the transmission will be to the left of the brace with the Differential Housing setting the angle of the transmission... I know it's sparse, but it has all the info I need to set it up accurately... I also set up an index point matched to the models origination point in the software, so no matter which drawing I drop it into, it will be in the same place, (model space) on all of them... This is what it looks like... With this you can readily see that the Tranny is too high and at the wrong angle... The angle problem comes from the Differential Housing rotated too far back and is causing the Transmission to be too high... So, the first step is to correct the Differential Housing's problem, the second step is rebuild the tranny so it matches both the Differential housing mating surface and so the driveline centerline enters the center of the Thrust tube collar on the front of the tranny.. The Differential housing was a snap... took maybe an hour to correct.... The Tranny took four days and three rebuilds... I finally ended up with this... Looking it over for the last day, there isn't much that can be corrected or re-shaped, it looks like it's pictures and feels right... I'm calling it done... I figure about 97-98% accurate to the real thing.... Here is what it looks like with the Rear Axle.... And here you see it with the Alignment sketch... Here's a better look at it in the frame.... You can't get any better alignment than that... That was a lot of work... Almost ten hours a day except for the normal interruptions of the day... I think it looks kinda good, It fits... More detail takes more work.... {chuckle} Anyway this is where I'm at now, ready to start the Thrust Collar design...... (and give you guys a view into what this kind of modeling work involves) EG Onwards!!!! Ubiquetous overall shot.... Rik Thistle, gjdale, mtaylor and 8 others 5 6 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 15 Author #68 Posted May 15 Ok this update is going to be a step by step of the process of designing a mechanical part in 3D from just a few photographs... We start with the Images... The first is a picture of the top of the frame... It has been adjusted in gimp to measure out to full size, 115.5" wheelbase and 56.5" track at the rear wheels and straightened as much as possible for a distorted scanner image... The second is a picture taken at the IMS museum of the actual Wasp... From the right side, underneath looking forward towards the Thrust Crossmember.... The third pic is the same as the second except from the left side.... And the fourth is also from the left side but at a different angle.... All of these pics are of sufficient quality to be adjustable to full size so we can take measurements... Now I already have figured out the measurements I need for the adjustment... With the frame image at full size I take off the thrust tube diameter and it is the known common feature in the other pics... The process we are going to be using to create the basis of our part and get the dimensions we need is called Photogrammetry... Today Photogrammetry has it software packages just like everything else, But I've been doing it long before there were computers to either assist or baffle us in the minutia of perfection... those software packages have been around a while and make 3D modeling relatively easy if you want to learn the process, the problem is you need images, LOTS of them of the subject your going to model... Unfortunately we don't have lots of images, only a few of unknown quality and differing composition... So we go back to the old school way of rulers and calculators... Except we can use the computer for the sizing and measuring... So I guess the old school process has evolved a bit as well... Now most of my images have already been resized to full size for the info I want to get but I do have one where I will demonstrate the process... And hopefully give everyone a better understanding of what is taking place... I chose this part cause it is the one part where I have only a few images and incomplete coverage of that part I will have to derive a lot from what is happening in the image and take into consideration all the info in the images... It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words... We are going to see if this is true.... More later my friends.... Onwards... mtaylor, modeller_masa, chadwijm6 and 4 others 6 1 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
chadwijm6 Posted May 15 #69 Posted May 15 Fascinating. Thanks for the tutorial EG, really interesting 👍🏻 Rik Thistle, mtaylor, Egilman and 1 other 4 Quote Cheers, James. Current Builds Microaces Scrappee Liaison Radio Controlled Occre Polaris 1/50 Hong Kong Models 1/32 B25 J Mitchell Completed Airfix Westland Sea King HU.5 1/48 Airfix Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IXc 1/24 Airfix Avro Lancaster B.III (SPECIAL) 'THE DAMBUSTERS' 1/72 Airfix Titanic 1/400 Airfix King Tiger 1/35 In the hangar, dockyard or factory Airfix Fairey Gannet AS.1/AS.4 1/48, Airfix North American P-51D, Mustang 1/48, Airfix Supermarine Spitfire FR Mk.XIV 1/48, Airfix MGB 1/32, ICM Gloster Gladiator 1/32, 5 Airfix Tanks, Airfix Blackburn Buccaneer S.2 C/D 1/48, Artesania Latina Zuiderzee Botter 1912 1/50, Airfix WWII British Army 30-cwt 4x2 GS Truck 1/35
Egilman Posted May 15 Author #70 Posted May 15 Thank you James, I hope it's going to help people get a better understanding in how the various technologies are coming together to revolutionize our hobby... This is only the first step in the process.... Canute, Jack12477, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 16 Author #71 Posted May 16 Here we go... The first two images I posted have already been processed in gimp and are ready for use, the last to images have not been completely processed and for all intents are still raw.... That's why they look dark, especially around the area we want to model.... So we will process those two first.... I use Gimp for image processing, I also have Photoshop but prefer Gimp simply cause I'm more familiar with it... (in essence they are identical in capabilities) How you go about fixing an image for this type of work is fairly quick and easy.... We open the image in Gimp.... The part we want to model is circled in the lower right corner... Very dark, you can hardly see it much less measure it... So we need to lighten and brighten it so we can see what is there.... Under the Colors menu we select Brightness and Contrast... (Quick and dirty color correcting) For most normal pics I take the brightness up to 80 and the contrast up to 40, this usually brightens the picture enough to bring out the details, but this pic is so dark I'm going to 100 on brightness and 70 on contrast... And select OK, now we can see what we are looking at... Next step is to scale it... so we have picked a section of the pic we wish to measure so we need to scale in that region of the pic... Cameras take pictures in perspective so items in the foreground will ALWAYS be larger than objects in the background.... we are going to scale the background in the location of the thrust collar... when done we will be able to measure and get approximate dimensions of objects in that (depth) area of the pic... Anything closer will not be correct, anything farther away will also not be correct... We are only working in the part of the image we need forget the rest... This is the image I previously corrected... And the one I will be taking measurements of.... We are going to scale it at the Collar around the Thrust Tube which measures 2 7/8" on the full sized model.... So we switch the image reporting in the taskbar at the bottom to report inches.... We switch from pixels to inches, (or mm's if that is your chosen measure) this is so what ever we use the measure tool on reports the length of what we measure... we know the outside diameter of the thrust tube is 2 7/8ths inches, we now wish to make the image distance the same... For this we use the measure tool, it looks like a pair of dividers on the tool palette we use those to measure across the Tube in the image where it connects to the thrust collar... At the bottom left corner we see that this section of the image measures .295 inches.. now it's simple math we need 2.875 inches and we have ,295 you divide what you need by what you have to get the percent you either need to enlarge or reduce the image... 974.58 % enlargement.... That's a pretty hefty jump in size isn't it? how we gonna do that without destroying the image? Simple we use the percentage scale function and the pixel scale function... But the order we use them in is critical to keeping a useable measurable file. the main thing with enlarging images is not damaging the pixels size ratio nor do you want to create more pixels either... This is done by creating larger pixels this is what the scale by percent function does... So you increase in steps I call this the by 200's method,,, we do increase the size maintaining the aspect ration of the image by 200% and then measure again... And we measure the same spot again and find we have doubled the measured size... I get .581 inches... so we need another step up in scale we do the by the 200's again.... And this time you see the scale function was quick, but noticeably slower than before, this is a polite reminder from Gimp that you can only go so far before you make a file you can't load... I get 1.156 inches for the measurement... We need another bump before final sizing.... But how do we go about this without increasing the file size? Simple we reduce the pixel resolution.... When we execute this the change is instantaneous, cause what we are changing is the way the image displays on the screen we are not changing the physical size of the image... I now measure the thrust tube in the same place as before and we get 2.31 inches... We have now arrived at our scale neighborhood we just have to make the final scale.... 2.875 / 2.31 = 124.46% enlargement.... a fairly small step up... Let the software choose what it wants for pixel scaling you put in the calculated scale and the number coming back is what the images pixel scale will allow, just accept if and let Gimp work... It may warn you that you are creating a large image file and that is ok it's not going to be too large accept it... it also may screen pause in creating the file, this is ok as well... let it do it's thing... when it's done you will have this.... An image where the measured size of the thrust tube at the thrust collar is 2.875 inches in diameter, exactly what we needed... The resulting file is not that large, it's fast loading and won't stuff your harddrive with bits... In fact it's the file above this sentence.... 8.7mb in size... Your machine loaded it as fast as any other... This is the conclusion to the scaling steps repeat for the rest of the files your going to use... This is a simple technique that doesn't bury you in bits... I'm sure there are other ways people will do this, this is just my way, it works for me... Next update will show you how we extract the measurements as we go to model the part... Onwards.. EG Canute, Haliburton, Jack12477 and 4 others 7 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 16 Author #72 Posted May 16 Ok the next step is to look at your images see what is there and where your part is going to reside... The shot on the left is showing the right side of the Thrust Crossmember, the pic on the right is showing the left side... This was my current Crossmember.... You notice it has a flat on the bottom that shouldn't be there.... In the first two pics you can see the lower edges of the cross member on the opposite sides adjacent to the Thrust collar and almost beneath it... The angles of those sections are telling me that there isn't a flat on the bottom of the cross member.. It is round.... So, we check the historical images for proof.... Below are two from race day... You can clearly see it behind the flywheel hanging down a few inches.... Now with the ability to measure the images the left edge is about 5.5 inches from the tube center, and the right edge is 6.5 inches from the tube center in it's pic... That is the effect of proportion on the image two differing camera angles as well... so what I do is take the average of the distances which is 6 inches and redraw the Crossmember to reflect what is actually on the car... And here it is on the chassis, yeah it seems to be hanging a bit low so I'll probably have to go back and adjust it a bit... But this is a good reminder to not limit yourself to just the part you want to model there is a lot of information in the rest of the picture about the parts environment that helps to set the limitations of the design... This process is one of design, adjust the design, add more adjust again, add a little more adjust again... and so on and so forth... A constant process of adjustment... That's all for now... Will continue... EG Haliburton, Canute, Jack12477 and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
mtaylor Posted May 16 #73 Posted May 16 Wow.. this is a master class in reverse engineering. Very well done, EG. Egilman, Canute and chadwijm6 2 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Egilman Posted May 17 Author #74 Posted May 17 Thank you Mark... I dunno about master anything, {chuckle} it's just the way I've learned to do it over the years.... Like I said, it works for me... If it helps someone else then great, that is the point.... This stuff isn't very technical, and one can get buried in all the supposed mandatory technical requirements when what we really are doing is simple copying of an image.... And people have been doing that since the invention of charcoal and stone cave walls... It's just the tools to do it are so much more capable than back then.... Thank you for the compliment.... Haliburton, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 19 Author #75 Posted May 19 Well I need to continue on with the process... We are working on Version II of the thrust collar.... This is a part I designed a few months ago using the only info I had at that time... This is what it looked like and the pic it was derived from.... Yeah one single view, from one angle.... A little hard to get a correct shape... Since then a few more images have come into my possession which show what it looks like from the rear.... We have seen these images before but in these I've enlarged a section of each side and have started lining it out for measuring... One of the things we look for is matching points in each pic, The truss rod slot in the collar is one of those points but even more important is the stud/nut positions.. We have three in one pic and two in the other but there is one that shows in both pics so they have to be in the same position on the part, the lower center stud... Now given the information in the top view we see that there is an upper and lower stud in the middle there is a upper and lower corner stud on the left and a single center stud on the right... Also that the studs are mounted to standoff tabs on the casing of the collar housing.... This is the start of the pattern we will make... All the tabs are the same relative size to one another, they all carry the same size stud and are secured by the same size nut.... Now the one stud we don't see in the end view pics is the upper middle one, we see it in the top view..... This is where the artsy part comes in, none of the pics have the same frame of reference, all we can do is extract patterns and points from the images and make them fit the 3D model... This is the time of draw, adjust, draw some more, adjust some more until you get something that actually looks like the pics... It's hard to describe the process as nothing is concrete... Basically your trying to make a 3D model that looks like what your seeing in the pics.... So at this point I'll be figuring out how to model this part I will first try to adjust the previous one and failing that design a new one... Anyway this is the process I go thru for every part I make in SW... Now back to designing the part... Onwards.. modeller_masa, mtaylor, Jack12477 and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 23 Author #76 Posted May 23 Well I finally wound up redesigning most of it... The part that shows in the cockpit was pretty much right on the money, it's the part underneath the floor and seat was what need work... Here is the redesigned part.... And the driveline assembly.... And mounted in the frame... This wasn't an easy part to redesign, it's obvious that the previous part was wrong, and even with the shots of the rear of it from either side helped, the oilskin cover obscured the greater portion of the thrust collar... But from the bits I could glean, this is what I cane up with, yes the retainer is a light one with reinforcing ribs, that is known but the configuration of those ribs was hidden, so I drew it up how I would have done it if I was the designer... I would say the Thrust Collar is 85-90% accurate the only info missing is what is actually under the oilskin dust cover... Next up is the Truss Rods and Diagonal Braces, then the Brakes and Rear Wheels... only a few more parts to a complete rear suspension... But I'm gonna take a day or two... Onwards... gjdale, Haliburton, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted May 30 Author #77 Posted May 30 (edited) Ok, another update.... Slowly getting back to where I was... Truss Rods and diagonal braces.... Brakes... I had to redesign the cam rod support arm.... That cross piece with the bolts and locknuts was missing before, it is the stop to prevent the brake arms from going overcenter and locking the brakes in the off position... (a very important feature) And mounted to the Differential carrier... And as part of the rear suspension.... I guess I can mount the rear wheels now and get her to a rolling chassis state... Onwards!!! Edited May 30 by Egilman Jack12477, Rik Thistle, chadwijm6 and 6 others 9 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
DocRob Posted May 30 #78 Posted May 30 Impressive work Egilman, I hope your CAD development will be put to reality, when ready. Like you, I learned pen and paper construction in my early days as an engineer, but I never converted to CAD other than producing early day 3D-animations. Your re-engineering is fascinating to follow, I only recently learned, that Model Factory Hiro designs their kits only from pictures very often as well. Cheers Rob Rik Thistle, Canute, Jack12477 and 2 others 4 1 Quote Current builds: Shelby Cobra Coupe by DocRob - Model Factory Hiro - 1/12 McLaren Mp4/6 - Ayrton Senna - Fujimi - 1/20 - paused Duchess of Kingston - paused Finished builds: F4U-1A Corsair - Tamiya 1/32 USS Arizona 1/350 Eduard Caudron C.561 French Racing Plane 1/48 Nachtigall on Speed Arado 234 B-2N by DocRob - 1/32 - Fly Renault RE20 Turbo - Tamiya - 1/12 P-38J Wicked Woman - Tamiya - 1/48 AEG G.IV Creature of the Night - WNW - 1/32 "Big Tank" Crocker OHV motorcycle by DocRob - Model Factory Hiro - 1/9
Egilman Posted May 31 Author #79 Posted May 31 On 5/30/2024 at 3:33 AM, DocRob said: Impressive work Egilman, Why thank you Brother.... Yeah it's been a long road but I'm getting there.... the transfer to software is daunting at first but quickly learned as you try new things, then it becomes an experience of learning the fine points of the tool and how to use them... Believe it or not most models are designed exactly this way today, you collect as many images as you can and hopefully some documentation as well to go along with the pics, then you start drawing ibn 1/1 scale... Once you get to the end of the design process, a scale is decided upon then you revise the model for production in the scale you chose... The whole process can take well over a year from start to finish and that is with experienced researchers, designers and manufacturing people involved... A lot goes into producing a workable model.... Not surprised at all that MFH does some of it this way....... Today I put her rear wheels on, had to tweak the Differential carrier/Rear Axle and brakes to make them work with the Wheels but it's all good... will probably have to do more tweaking eventually... Here are the pics.... Left side, Front... Rear... And 3D... Now it's beginning to look like something.... EG Canute, gjdale, mtaylor and 7 others 8 2 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Canute Posted June 1 #80 Posted June 1 Nicely done, EG. That's a lot of back and forth, making these design changes. Will love to see this as a 3D print model. The various branches of the model building world is adding products almost daily. Egilman and mtaylor 1 1 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild
gsdpic Posted June 1 #81 Posted June 1 Very impressive project. I am envious of your CAD skills. A couple questions if I may... - Apologize if this was asked and answered, though I did not see it. Which CAD program are you using for this? I saw a reference to Rhino but it did not seem like that is what you are using for this project. - Maybe I am getting way ahead of things, but there are references to 3D printing. It seems you are making a very detailed virtual copy of the car. But I am curious about the process of how to use that for 3D printing. It seems to me (and I could be completely wrong) that 3D printing would require a very simplified set of subassemblies rather than this perfectly detailed virtual model. So can this very detailed model be used for 3D printing, or will it need to be simplified? Canute, mtaylor and Jack12477 3 Quote - Gary Current Build: Artesania Latina Sopwith Camel Completed Builds: Blue Jacket America 1/48th Annapolis Wherry
Egilman Posted June 2 Author #82 Posted June 2 Thanks Ken, Yep it's a lot of back and forth, you do the best you can and go back and fix things when you have to... Yeah the intent is to carry it through to a completed model, right now just getting it designed is the immediate goal... Yes there is more and more coming out and the big companies are reading the handwriting on the wall, with PE in kits now and some 3D printed parts resin... the real switch is when they formulate a styrene plastic that can be laser printed, at that point you will see the injection molding go away... The future is now my friend... The real question is will we as modelers be able to afford it.... {chuckle} As 3D printing develops, we are seeing more and more startups and accessories coming out.... It's a good thing.... Jack12477, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted June 2 Author #83 Posted June 2 (edited) On 6/1/2024 at 11:23 AM, gsdpic said: Very impressive project. Thank you Gary, And welcome aboard... Was looking for something I could do while under medical issues... This is working out well I think... On 6/1/2024 at 11:23 AM, gsdpic said: A couple questions if I may... Certainly... I'm currently using Solidworks 2023 for this, I won't upgrade to 2024 until the year passes.... I will use Rhino for doing ship hulls when I get that far.... Not that it can't be done in SW, it's just that Rhino is better for ship hulls... Yes as detailed as I can make it, I'm designing in 1/1 scale right now, a virtual copy of the full sized car... Most models are initially designed this way on the computer, its easier and you can scale it to any scale you want when the basic design is finished... Yes this very detailed model is intended for 3D printing and yes I will have to adjust the model for it... as you scale it down for printing you will lose some detail, as it will scale so small as to be invisible some of the details will have to be oversized so they will show... you also have to decide how the parts will fit together and an assembly sequence that doesn't change the model in any appreciable way... Like on this model the 1/2 inch truss rods when scaled to 1/12th scale will be .042 inch in diameter a 1/8th" thick panel will be slightly thicker than a piece of paper.... (and you won't be able to print a .030 thick body skin panel, it will have to be thickened) So yeah, the model for printing will have to be adjusted so it's capable of being built... Unfortunately you will lose fine detail when the developments for scale printing are complete... The good model designers do it this way, it's the only way.... Otherwise you miss things that should be there but because you didn't design it at the start it isn't there on the model... Now I've chosen a specific model at a specific point in it's life, most of it's life it had a belly pan to keep dirt and debris out of the running gear, but when it ran the first Indy 500, it wasn't on the car, so I'm not designing it, this is a model of the first Indy Winner... (as it was raced, not like it is today) Takes a bit more work to do it this way which is what makes it even more fun... I have no illusions, there are several thousand people following this on the net, I'm sure a few of them are taking my images and doing exactly what I'm doing but using my work instead of their own...... It goes with the territory... Edited June 2 by Egilman gsdpic, Jack12477, Canute and 1 other 3 1 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted June 3 Author #84 Posted June 3 (edited) Another short update brothers... Brake and Shift levers.... This required a complete redesign of the ratchet mechanism once I got a good look at what it actually is... Where it resides.... And it's shaft is connected to the Thrust Collar where it is supposed to be... Making progress brothers... I think I'm going to change the arc of development here, right now, it is easy to develop the forward firewall as everything is open with nothing to interfere with the design process... If I start putting the clutch pedal and steering gear in now, then the firewall has to be built around them... It adds a whole lot of complications... Right now I can build the Firewalls with an essentially clear slate and adjust them later if I need to for fitting the accessories.... And the clutch is anything period that look the part, as I still have absolutely no info on what it looked like except for it being a tapered clutch... The clutch throwout mechanism is a mystery, I know where it goes, (well where it's cross shaft goes) but what it looks like is anyone's guess... I do have a mechanical cut-away drawing of the Marmon 32 1914 clutch mechanism from the flywheel to first universal... Was thinking of adapting it to this so at least something that looks like a clutch mechanism is present when built... But I'm not sure if I want to do that.... It may be the only way to go.... And the firewalls are essential to laying out the body in the future...., It's easier to put it in place now... anyways Onwards!!! Edited June 3 by Egilman Jack12477, Canute, Rik Thistle and 3 others 6 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted June 6 Author #85 Posted June 6 (edited) Hey Brothers it's time for another update.... This is prep, setting up the model to build the forward firewall.... We first start with the general shape, this comes from the Radiator, it has the exact same shape as the firewall... And the Radiator sits on the Core Support, all radiators in all cars do... The core support.... Now the core support has two functions, to take the weight of the full Radiator but also to locate it and affix it to the frame so it doesn't move about... It's location in the frame.. Now the design only goes far enough to create it, it will be attached to the Radiator itself when the model is done... The Radiator... And the Radiator's final location.... And here is the results of the prep work... The outer frame is made from hand forged angle iron and the actual sheet is .060 Steel... You can easily see the shapes are identical... And with everything out of the way it's easier to see what is going on.... Anyway this is the state of the model today... Onwards!!! Edited June 6 by Egilman modeller_masa, mtaylor, Jack12477 and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
Egilman Posted June 18 Author #86 Posted June 18 And another short update.... Front firewall, progress report... Front... Only about halfway there on the engine side, I will probably have to wait for the clutch pedal creation to cut the slot for it in the firewall.. Current state of Cockpit side... What your looking at is the wooden foundation of the steering gears, yes, they are built up wood blocks with holes cut thru them to reach the fixture supporting the gears themselves... The wood forms the inner layers between the metal firewall and cast gear fixture... About to start designing the side walls and braces, they need to be done now cause the angle of the steering gears needs to be fixed..... Also, the sidewalls are different from left side to right side... (today, they would be identical mirrors of each other, nothing easy about this thing).... Anyway I haven't left, I'm still here plugging away... Onwards... Jack12477, modeller_masa, CDR_Ret and 5 others 5 3 Quote Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale Completed: M8A1 HST 1930 Packard Boattail Speedster M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433 F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"
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