Research in the HMS Ulysses 1797, a Roebuck class ship

[Kevin Kenny]

Starting research on building a model of the HMS Ulysses the ship that brought my ancestor Chevalier Michel Julian  de Verteuil to Trinidad in 1797 .

[uss frolick]

The wreck of HMS Endymion lies on a reef on the southern Turks Island shoal. In one of the greatest coincidences of maritime history, she sank after striking Endymion Rock ... 

 

[Joke. Obviously, the rock was named after her loss.]

[Kevin Kenny]

 

[Kevin Kenny]

The Janus which was renamed Dromedary sank when she hit Parasol rock, but they did not change the name of the rock

[dvm27]

Nice video Kevin. I wasn't aware of the Hahn CDs. Perhaps they were put together by Dave Stevens? At any rate you need to consider whether you will rig her or not. David and I are making a model of a similar size ship for a Yacht Club and I can attest that, with rigging, she will barely fit through the doorframe of my workshop.   I will need to purchase a lift to rig her! I'm sure your wife is very supportive of your hobby but is she willing to have a room dominated by a ship model and its case of this size? Will she be pleased with the cost of the glazing for this case? If she's to be unrigged her real estate imprint will be much more manageable (hallway).

 

Hahn's 1/8"-1ft scale model of Roebuck is beautiful but I find it harder to work at the smaller 1/8" scale. Besides the vision difficulties it is much harder to make scale fittings at this scale. As well, there are those lovely carvings. Perhaps you should try a couple at this scale to make sure you'll be happy with them?

 

Having built several Hahn style ship models I think you will enjoy the challenge. It's a bit more wasteful with the wood but you seem to have plenty. And there's nothing like the thrill of cutting the model from the jig. Do Hahn's plans have a scale on each frame? I've had no end of problems having plans reproduced at different scales without distortion in the X or Y axises. At any rate you will be busy for the next five years or so with this model!

[Kevin Kenny]

Hi Greg

thanks for the response. There is no way i will be rigging a model of that size. It may be Dave Stevens CD’s i am not home to check it  but will do so in a week as i noticed a lot of copywrite notices . I am sure Hahn did not do them, they were supplied when i purchase the plans from the family. It was a while ago and cant remember the details of how i got everything. The most important thing is all the plans are available in CAD. With reference to scale i have a friend who owns a high end copy center. I was pleasantly surprised that he was able to print perfectly scaled up drawings from the CAD drawings supplied in the CD’s. And more importantly he has agreed to do it for me at no cost. Thats always encouraging. 
 I am at the point of just trying to put  every thing in place to start the build some time next year when Thorn is complete. And Thorn will be fully rigged.  Not sure i will use his jig to make the frames other than to experiment with it. Its the same jig i saw in Rev Remaro practium for  the Warrior. Your methods of frame construction  have convinced me that this is the preferred  method. I am in Tobago for a week but will produce 4 frames when i get back just to get a feel of the width of the finished  model. I am almost convinced to build her in 1/4” scale but was interested in hearing of the experience of people who made large models which they kept at home. If it becomes a problem i can always put it in  our cottage where i already have a few of my finished models.

again thanks for the feedback.

kevin

[Kevin Kenny]

[Kevin Kenny]

Hi Greg

the CD’s may have been done by Bob Hunt, the owner of Lauck Street Shipyard (https://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com). 

[jpalmer1970]

ModelShipBuilder seem to be selling Hahn's plans but I not sure if they come with digital copies of the frames etc.

https://www.modelshipbuilder.com/hahnplans.html

[capnharv2]

If I recall correctly, Bob started the Roebuck project, then had some problems with the Cad file, and gave it up. I may still have some of that work too.

 

Harvey

[druxey]

Did you not recieve my two pm's, Kevin?

[scrubbyj427]

Lovely Subject Kevin! I would go 1/48, the detail is much cleaner and easier to manage. The model won’t be offensively  large compared to your Thorn model.

[bruce d]

Kevin,  my two cents worth:

The common theme of subjects for your modelling work is telling a worthy story. Having the two vessels in the same scale would be a visual statement serving that story.

 

I'm sure the model will look great whichever scale you choose. 

[Pirate adam]

Kevin,

 

It is really neat you have a ship with a tie to your family history. 
 

I will offer my two cents on the scale. Years ago I started a model of HMS Alfred using the Harold Hahn plans at 1/8th scale. I did a ton of work on the framing and put it on the shelf after finding myself constantly frustrated with the tiny scale. I also find it just doesn’t have the same “feel” of the 1/4th scale models. I don’t know if I will ever finish it, although I keep it safe.  I get so much more satisfaction out of my Washington galley at 1/48. I spent a ton of time thinking about this topic before I started my Crocodile which is just a bit larger than a Swan class. I spent a lot of time looking for pictures of models with people in the pictures for perspective and thinking about where that would fit in the house. 
 

Have you considered 1:60 (1/5) scale?  It is kind of an unusual scale (not that unusual actually if you look at the National Maritime Museum models), but it is the one used in the Naiad books by Ed Tosti.  I read those books constantly, and the parts in the drawings still seem manageable.  His build log was super inspiring.  It doesn’t quite split the difference between your 2 scales, but would knock off some size. 
 

I love following your Thorn. I bet it would love a big brother

 

Adam 

[Kevin Kenny]

Wonderful words Adam. Thanks

[mtaylor]

On 8/4/2024 at 6:41 PM, Kevin Kenny said:

Hi Greg

the CD’s may have been done by Bob Hunt, the owner of Lauck Street Shipyard (https://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com). 

Those are Hunt's plans.  I've have yet to see anyone finish one of his designs.   To my knowledge there are no CD of Hahn Plan however, there is one source I'm aware offers "legal" Hahn plans....   https://www.modelshipbuilder.com/     I've bought some from him in the past and he's not shady and  delivered a good and legal product.   By legal..... he's just the middle man between the buyer of the plans and the Hahn family.  

[Kevin Kenny]

Made up one of the frames #33

[druxey]

Interesting. However the frame looks far too 'fat'. Do you have scantlings for a 44-gun ship?

[Kevin Kenny]

No  but its its correct. It looks bigger than it  is because of the way Hahn  constructs the model. 2” off the top is removed.

[Kevin Kenny]

[Kevin Kenny]

This is like with like. The smaller frame above was a rejected frame from the Thorn just to give a comparison. This is frame 33 and all the measurement are double the 1/8” scale. The inside drawing is at 1/8 scale.

[Kevin Kenny]

I have not printed all the scantlings yet . I had to look up scantlings. Humm. I will one day get all these terms under my belt. The larger frame does look double the size of the smaller frame and the measurement are all double.