HMS Victory by JPett - Corel - 1:98

[Erik Nyren]

Hello again.

 

Your build is of to a great start

 

When I built this kit (my second build) I did not know what a rabbit was  so I did not cut one to the ship. What I did was to plank the exposed plywood with some 0.5mm, or there about walnut colored veneer that I had in my scrapbox from building the Constructo Pandora. This added better coloring to the ply and also kind of enclosed the edges of the planking. A sort of afterconstruction of a rabbit if you will. I also planked the side of the rudder in a similar fashion.

Strangly I cant remember any thickness issue. If I remember correctly the rudder was constructed from several pieces (4 or 5) and they pretty much had the same thickness as the false keel. The planking had to be tapered a great deal though. Note that the planking did not run all the way towards the rudder but rather left about 5mm of that hidious ply keel exposed as can be seen in your picture

 

 

Normally its done like described below: DO READ ALL OF THIS :-)

 

1. Messure the thickness of the rudder (or sternpost, I cant remember if this kit came with a sternpost or if that was "included" in the false keel.)

2. The thickness of the false keel should be the same?

3. Calculate the thickness of the planking you will add

4. Taper the keel from a imagined rabbit line with the same amount as the thickness of the first planking

5. After the first planking has been done taper this with the same thickness as the second planking

6. After the second planking is done you should have the same thickness as the rudder/sternpost.

 

Example below

1. Thickness of rudder is 5mm

2. Thickness of false keel is 5mm

3. First planking 2mm strips, second planking 1mm strips gives a total of 3mm planking

4. Taper the keel down 2mm to each side from the rabbit to the stern, carfully so that the center of the keel is kept.

5. 2mm first planking to each side plus the 1mm left of the keel and we still have 5mm at the stern

6. Taper down 1mm to each side of the first planking from a redrawn rabbitline and we have 3mm left at the stern

7. 1mm second planking to each sideat the stern plus the 3mm left and hurray we got 5mm left so the rudder will be equally thick.

 

Now for the Corel Victory kit.

I would advise against tapering the keel as normally is done as the kit is designed to have the back end of the false keel exposed (hidious I know) but I would imagine that this is suppose to symbolise the sternpost.

Doing so will force you to taper the rudder and this can result in problems hard to forsee at this stage.

I would suggest that you taper down the first planking to almost nothing at the stern, the smother transition from the first planking to the false keel the better.

Also taper the second planking as much as you can without sanding through it. If you by the stern/sternpost have less than 1mm of the second planking visable you can cut a straight line and then plank the exposed ply with some thin veneer to your liking. Small adjustments to the rudder can then be made by sanding down and/or adding the same veneer to achieve the same thickness. Perhaps you can find some veneer that has more the same color as the valnut planking. Mine was not that great.

 

Hope this helps a bit

Erik

[JPett]

Ahoy Erik

 

Thank you very much for that most informative post

 

And I agree with you about the other half of shipbuilding. Sometimes for me, it is the better half.

 

If I am understanding you correctly I should "NOT" concern myself with cutting a rabbet but should sand down the first layer of planking in the stern so that it is flush with the keel (part# 15) cutting it back to where the sternpost would be. Then apply the second layer again cutting it also at the sternpost. Then add some thin stock to simulate the sternpost and cover up the hideous wood  supplied for the keel and stem.

 

The wood supplied for the rudder is slightly wider then the keel in its current state so with the second layer (and sternpost wood) only a minimum amount of sanding should be needed. This also makes better sense of the picture in the plans and of Ferit's earlier query about the stem.

 

With this in mind I will re-read the "little book" to see if this is encrypted in there somewhere. Ironically it usually is.

Edited October 7, 2013 by JPett

[Erik Nyren]

Sorry I´m late J Pett.

 

But yes thats about what I did, It would be better to sand back a bit extra of the fist planking at the stern, then less needs to be sanded on the second and you dont want to end up sanding through your second planking (unless you are going to copper the hull).

The little book is....well it is....... The words I used to comment the book is not sutible for MSW

 

Please post pictures as you go along so we can follow the progress on the stern a bit closer

Regards

Erik

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

Lawrence: Welcome aboard, I draw much inspiration from your log. Thanks for posting

 

Back to the build: Time 16hr (Bulkheads and Deck) Total 30hrs

 

The adventure continues: After making the call on the gunports I re-re-re-read the "little book' and found this. "Therefore, re-move some small portion of the frames whose profile coincides exactly with the gunports (frames No. 2, 4, 6, 7, and 13); in this case the frame itself acts as a support for the half barrels No. 174." Now this statement is the last sentence before the next paragraph on planking. It also doesn't mention that gun port at B7 uses a cannon and not the half barrel. I would love to hear from others as to how they handled the removal of B7 on the gun deck which can be seen and if you followed the instructions has already been planked.

 

I can see I will be deviating

 

I installed the first gun deck supplied with the kit. Having never done one of these plywood pre decks before, it turned into quite a learning experience. It seems ply wood does not like to be bent in two directions at the same time. The whole kit deck/bulkhead thing has in the past been difficult for me: I once sanded a deck flat. I took measurements but because Corel only supplies you with a waterline draft  that shows this deck height I decided to take my measurements from the differences. I measured the plans and determined how much higher or lower the deck line was at bulkheads 4-9. Then I measured/marked my bible bulkhead using the deck and used the differences from the plans to mark the rest. Then I refitted the deck and made my adjustments so the deck would lie at each mark. Because I wanted my measurements to be accurate I bolted down the hull. This worked really well for me. The idea came to me after a few beers.

 

I can not overstate how much better it is to just tack things. I am starting to believe full on gluing things was an amateur mistake. Once I started to glue the deck, again only tacking it, the sweep of the hull that the deck need to follow started to fight the crown of the deck. A large concentric pin was used it to apply pressure/mediate the edges making sure the deck edge remained at the correct mark. Because I only tacked the deck in the center this was easy. I also applied some water with a damp rag to get the deck to relax after everything was tacked. It seems a little stressed.

 

With the deck in I started putting in all the fillets to permanently bond all the parts. I start with a very thinned PVA, a small paint brush and let capillary action suck the mixture into the joints. Then I go back with a stronger mix and do the seam. I learned this building RC aircraft where glue was weight and major repairs were just a part of the hobby. These glue joints are not as strong as when you glue both pieces and then apply pressure but this is also not the Queen Mary. Those joints are stronger then the wood, mine are not and are much easier to undo.

 

For anyone following this build there is a relationship between the deck and the bulkheads. Putting in the bulkheads without using the deck as a guide will most likely mean the deck slots will have to be widened which will then require fillers to allow you to glue to, to get the deck height correct at the gunnels. I was able to make some changes because I only "tacked" everything but still needed three 1/32nd shims. The curve of my deck at B4 is slight listing to starboard and I believe the crown on B 7 is a little flatter then it should be. To me these are very minor and will only be noticed now and by me. You might be able to see the slight list in the pic "Bulkheads 6"

 

Next will be the stern and the fillers. There is some chatter on the net regarding the stern bulkheads on the Corel kit so some research will be needed. My hold downs currently prevent the installation of B16, the stern, and the bow fillers so a slight change will be needed there.

 

Let me know what you think. All comments welcome. Especially if it is in regards to the B7 cannon debacle

Edited October 23, 2013 by JPett

[patrickmil]

It's good to see some headway being made on your Victory JP. You know... the thoroughness of your approach should be appreciated by these manufacturers as it really gives everyone an idea of how everything goes together better than the instructions.

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

Well it has been a while since my last update but we are back in the shipyard making sawdust on all three fronts. As I have some unresolved issues there may be some long pauses in my future posts. No worries as it is all good. I have decided to post here first. 

 

I started to plank the deck as per the manual and then decided it might not be such a good idea. I didn't like how it was coming along either. I also made the Grating/Coamings using the supplied "mystery wood". It was very easy to work with and I may or may not use these. The kit comes with both the wood to make the grating and the pressed "mystery wood" grating. The mystery wood is easy to remove by just sanding the bottom of the sheet until it is paper thin and then cutting free the part. Same as resin parts. Cutting"big" around the part first, simplifies this. 

 

I put the project in reverse because after beginning to plank the deck (P#20) as per the instructions. which would then have me install the upper deck supports (p#28) and then the upper deck (P#18) they very calmly let you know that the gunwale section of a bulkhead will need to be removed under the upper deck (P#18) to facilitate a cannon.  I have decided for me it might be easier to do the first layer of planking from the wales to the upper deck, without the upper deck installed as I have seen on other builds by other manufacturers; then address B7. I may even plank the entire ship before I deal with this. Not sure yet. I would be interested in any opinions or previous solutions to this, Thank you

 

With this in mind I started on the bow fillers. Corel supplies excellent wood for this kit and the fillers are no exception. Compared to the basswood used on my last outing these are more like carving stone with my meager hand tools. I also installed a dowel in the filler so that it could be securely mounted to the hull for tuning and then removed for more aggressive wood removal. Speaking of aggressive wood removal I have highlighted the corners of the bulkheads to help me with my heavy handed approach to sanding. Me over-sanding ??? I know "say it isn't so".I see now I might have to sand through my line in a few areas on the bulkheads but only just a tiny bit to get the battens to lie flat. Were learning

 

I used Chucks planking fan to mark off belts so that I could properly position battens to check my work on the fillers. I just used a fictional plank width to start with to get a plank count. Then I only marked every forth plank on B5, measured B1 and transferred my plank count there for the fan. I use a pencil to mark high areas that cause the battens to rise and then sand away until I erase the marks. Slow but sure. In hindsight I would have probably been best to get an actual plank width as I will only be repeating this "for real" when I start to plank. Live and learn. 

 

For the basic outline of these fillers I made paper templates taken from Sheet 2 images A and B. I also used P#25 beak-head platform as called for "cryptically" in the instructions. I have an issue with this part and its final home. I can find nothing showing anything that would push this part forward to a position that aligns the grating with the cut outs on the stem as shown on the plans. This position makes sense as it would align it so that the finished second layer of planking is either directly under the curve or just ahead of it. The pic shows the bow filler ahead of the curve with P#25 contacting B1 which must be wrong. The curve is correct but the part needs to go forward. For now it is just another mystery.

 

 

One more thing. In the second pic there is a hobby knife with a flat blade. It only took me about 500 hours to find that this tool is so much better then the standard blade for accurately cutting the strip wood commonly used for ship modeling. it has become an indispensable tool for me.   

Edited August 27, 2014 by JPett

[augie]

Good to see you back at it, JP.

[dragzz]

hello jpett   nice ti see u back at work on the victory  hope u love doing planking lol this one test u to the brink i found that out good luck .its like u are doing great so far keep up the great work 

[Sjors]

Hi JP,

 

Welcome home     

Good you are using balsa for de bow filler.

Now you can drew a line and sand it away........

Then it fits perfectly !

Nice pictures, thank you !!!!!!  

I'm using a x-knife ( that kind what the doctors are using when they are modelling your body )

Those blades are that sharp that when you blow at it, the air wil be cut in two....

 

Sjors

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

Lawrence: I believe it is a cheap knock off of an X-Acto #18 Chiseling blade that comes in the assortment pack. I do have  X-Acto #17 Lightweight Chiseling Blade which is just a little thinner. The key is control. I find I have much more cutting straight down into the wood as compared to from the side as you would using "that kind what the doctors are using" . 

 

Augie:It is always a pleasure to have a Rear Admiral aboard. Seeing how nice your deck came out had nothing to do with me ripping mine off. Really absolutely nothing   

 

Dragzz: I really like the Vic. I am not sure if it is because I have  slightly more knowledge then I had when I started the Ratt or if its the challenge.  

 

Sjors: If that's balsa, my kit sat on the shelf for a very long time. The wood fossilized 

 

 

 

Thx for the likes and replies 

 

Back to the build 

 

Well I figured out the problem with the bow fillers and how far forward they go and P#25 sits. I sat in bed last night, re-reading the "little book" and going over the plans. Today I spread them all over the house and pulled some parts to do mock ups so i could to figure this out and finish my fillers. I really am a visual learner. I forgot to mention that I peel away a few layers of the cardboard before I sand the mystery parts out too. See my last post

 

It seems that the planking does extend into the grating and P#25 does butt up to B1  The planking actually butts right up against the support (P#58) too and completely covers the bottom of first grating P#63. This is where I was confused. I actually thought the grating would be unobstructed.  The cryptic little book wins again.  It was right there on Sheet 2 image A just like it said "lol"  

Edited August 27, 2014 by JPett

[mtaylor]

Good to have you back, JP.  And it's great to see that you're back in the shipyard.

[Kenneth Powell]

JPETT -

This looks wonderful, as usual with your high degree of modeling. I really like your timer; it's hard to believe how long it really takes for such an accomplishment.

 

Kenneth

[dragzz]

hello jpett looks like to me thats your starting on the frist planking stage . on mine i did one plank to each side at a time so that it was same for each thats left and right side just thot i let u know hope it helps

[augie]

Fret not....you're not the only visual learner around here.  It is often I have the 'little book' open and the plans spread all over as I wait for the 'light' to come on between my ears.  Sometimes, there's a power failure up there and it takes a day or two!

 

As an aside, don't know if you have balsa there or not.  But keep in mind it is extremely variable when it comes to physical properties.  It can vary in density from about 4 pounds/cu. foot to almost 6 times that figure.  That greatly affects the hardness as does the moisture content.  Old balsa can dry out and almost turn to stone ---- you weren't far from wrong with the term 'fossilize'. 

 

Carry on, mate!

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates 

 

Thanks for the likes and comments.

 

Mark: Thanks for stopping by, It is a great past time.There was a little too much going on for me at that time. It should always be fun. 

 

Kenneth: "lol" I really had a good laugh in your comment. 

 

Dragzz: Thanks for the help. Your log leads the way . Keep up the great work. 

 

Augie: I am a bit amused by your comment. Please do't tell me you are drinking the Kool Aide Sjors is serving. 

 

Back to the build: 

 

Well there was a mishap in the shipyard which has my first love at anchor. She will be OK but I need to let her dry for a few days. This will also let me formulate my correction.. It seems isopropyl alcohol is not a good choice to remove a misguided dab of paint on a surface coated with WOP over another painted surface, OOPS. Nothing is damaged that some time will not correct but she needs to sit until the chemical reaction stops. The good news is I actually liked one outcome of this so much i might make some additional changes to the finish. Truth be told though, I was looking forward to posting elsewhere today. 

 

But such is the life of a model shipbuilder with two kits . The bow fillers are as done as I think they should be before permanently gluing them on the hull and the final hull fairing. Making them removable worked very well for me. I did have to upgrade the dowel. The toothpick could not handle the two of them. I will give myself a few days to mull this over, and of course look at them a few hundred times to confirm this. For now I am working on the stern fillers. They have also been mounted with a dowel and are now removable. I see another night sleeping with the plans as I try to confirm how to shape them which currently has me baffled.

 

After mounting them I immediately saw a problem, Or I think I do: I am not sure, but there is a 1/16" difference in the top of bulkhead 13 (figures). I am not sure whether I want to just sand it away or put some 1/16" strip wood on the other side and then sand a 1/32 off each side. I confirmed it is the bulkhead. My concern is how much is going on back here and my complete ignorance of "how much is going on back there" . She's got a hell of a booty. My guess is this happened when i fitted the bulkhead. Even if it was Corel I should have caught this when I fitted that bulkhead.  My Bow fillers were asymmetrical out of the box, and I did catch and correct that. I'm learning .  

 

My question is; I do no know if this small amount will really make any difference after two layers of planking.  There is wood soaking as I type this "lol" and because how much is tied to this measurement I do not know. A mock up here is no small project. 

 

What do you guys think as more experienced kit builders.    

 

1) Your overreacting, After its sanded you won't ever see it 

 

2) No, OMG fix it before the world ends, Cats are playing with dogs, it could possibly lead to world peace and solve global warming

 

PS: I touched up the grates. Its amazing what you see in your pics. 

Edited August 29, 2014 by JPett

[dragzz]

hello jpett when i did my stern filler when u sand the rib for the planking it should be the same as the filler that what i did . just clamp them on frist do not glue them and sit there and look at them that what i did but u might have a better way to do it. for me that part was not fun if u know what i mean let me know it goes

[Sjors]

Hi JP,

 

I'm seeing it now....

They are solid blocks instead of balsa.....I have this with the Smit Rotterdam from BB.

I didn't know that it was also with the kits of Corel.

And I give only milk to Augie.

A man of his age has to be careful......  

 

Sjors

[md1400cs]

JP,

 

Nice to see you active again. Looks very good. Excellent start.

 

Regards,

 

Michael

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates 

 

Well I guess i better eat my crow before it gets cold 

 

Augie: Sir, Rear Admiral "Sir", please except my most humble apology.

What was I thinking, Sjors, himself another Rear Admiral make a wise crack in someones log,  I am ashamed. I don't know what came over me to think someone of his good standing in the community would stoop to that. I am truly sorry and please except my apology. I really did think he was jerking my chain. From this point on I will always believe everything Sjors says.  

Disclaimer: No Moose, fish or RC airplanes were misrepresented, used or in anyway injured during the making of this apology. And it did not snow. 

 

Well that's done        

 

Dragzz; thx again, I am really looking forward to planking 

 

Neptune: Thank you. Any information you might have on this kit would be much appreciated. It has taken me a while to get used to Corel's instructions. It seems to be based mostly on the pictures and not on the text. Considering the kit is shipped globally I find this interesting. 

 

Sjors: I think I am starting to see too  

 

Michael: Thanks for dropping by. I would not be here if it weren't for you 

 

Back to the build 

 

Well we looked at the plans, looked at the rear fillers, looked at some more plans, repeated this a few more times and then built this. I found it in Lawrence's log (Canoe21) and can see how it will have many uses for this build.

 

I think I will be doing the fillers very slowly and one stage at a time.  I will try to post my progress and steps to aide others. The waters a little deep on this one for me. Please do not hold your breath. 

Edited August 31, 2014 by JPett

[dragzz]

hello jpett   thats a great tool should  work really well great work

[Beef Wellington]

Jpett - not sure the misalignment is anything to worry about at all.  Even if it doesn't disappear when you sand to shape, you can always add some more scrap wood to build it up appropriately.  Everything look impeccable, not even a stray glue smear!

[augie]

Should work as a waterline marker as well.

 

On the comment.....I'm confused --- but that's normal.  Back to our regular programming.

[Longstorm11]

Hi J Pett,

 

I'm very pleased to see you modelling efforts, as I'm new to the group and have just received a Coral, 1/98 scale HMS Victory kit from my father-in-law. He managed to get the bulkheads in place before finding it too much for him. So production stopped about twenty odd years ago. Now it's my turn to take up the wood working tools and complete the task. It's my first time at this sort of thing, so I'm taking site member's advice and seeking something a little less demanding to start with. The good news is that since you are a ways down the road on your build I'll be following your techniques and tips with great interest when I do start the Victory. 

 

Keep up the good work and the invaluable posts.

 

Julian

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

Dragzz: Yes, the tool has already proved very useful in tests to position the mounts for the false cannons (part 31)  I have completely changed my approach to a much simpler way. I will cover this in another post 

 

BW: I have added some basswood and built out the bulkhead. I am actually quite messy with the glue but always clean it up. I use one brush to apply it and another larger one to mop it up. 

 

Augie: Thanks, I hope your somewhere nice with the Admiral, reading this on your phone 

 

Lawrence: Truth be told, had you not taken the time to post this in your log I may not have ever seen it, So Thank you

 

Julian: Welcome aboard. I would agree that starting with the Corel Vic isn't just jumping into the deep end but doing so from a cliff. It has been done with success but I agree that starting with something simpler is a good idea. I am following this build with my first one. Once I get this one to the planking stage;  please note construction will grind down. I really found I liked planking and want to start here before I forget what I just learned doing my Ratt. I plan to spend 6 months to a year perhaps even more planking this kit. This way I can sit back and really enjoy it; the right way, one plank at a time. Most of my build time will then go to finishing up my first kit.

 

 

Back to the build 

 

I am posting some pics to show my thinking and how I approached this stage of the build. I find rear fillers to be very challenging. I received a lot of help on my first build, THX MSW; which really influenced my work on these fillers. Hopefully I can share some of that information with my post here.  

 

I have also decided to post before I start on the port filler to show a comparison between the almost finished and untouched blocks. I am now at the point where the starboard side needs to be glued for the final sanding and want to use it to carve the port side. Doweling the fillers really worked out well for me and i highly recommend it. I did way to much sanding on this side but now with a confirmed shape I should be able to speed things along with more carving. In one of the pics you will see a round sanding tool. This was very helpful and is just a piece of PVC cut to fit between my thumb and pointer, split down the center to accept sandpaper. I also did a mock up of the stern area. I found that parts 50 and 51 actually show the final curve of the fillers. I need to give some thought as to how much more to reduce the upper part of the fillers. And how much to sand down the first layer of planking so the finished planks butt up to the keel where the rudder is mounted. I am wondering if it might also be easier to thin those planks before attempting to make that bend during planking too. The pencil marks on the bulkheads are my heavy hand alert and the yellow tape is my Oops prevent "er" . 

 

PS: Yes that is Pinkman putting out the generator fire. Netflix is a must for filler sanding. I started it from the beginning and yes it took me that long.  

Edited September 7, 2014 by JPett

[Sjors]

JP,

 

Maybe a stupid question or something like that but....

Those blocks on the bow, what is the purpose of that ?

To get the planks on the bow going smoothly ?

If so, why not changing it with Balsa.

Much easier to work with.

You can sand, cut ,shape it in each form that you want.

 

Sjors

 

P.S. apology excepted !!!!

[JPett]

Ahoy Sjors  

 

Thanks for stopping by. I considered replacing them with basswood but in hindsight I am glad I did not. The stern filler is a complex shape and would be very fragile had it been made out of basswood. I also think Corel used this harder wood so that you could put fasteners into it during planking which I think will be very helpful when it comes time to make these bends. I even think they included some nails with the kit. I might use screws

[dragzz]

hello jpett looking what u did there is great we are so close to the same on that part took me for ever to get to the right shape keep up the great work 

[JPett]

Ahoy Mates

 

Welcome and thanks for stopping by 

 

Well after many hours sanding, my little closet shipyard is a complete disaster and will need a complete cleaning. I think I am finally at the point where I can glue the rear fillers on. I have decided to post some pics before I do just to be safe. Please feel free to speak out if you see anything I missed or worst; did wrong. 

 

I am now using 230 grade sandpaper and hand sanding the final stage.  I can feel the wood through the paper and although i do not like sanding without support this seems to be working for these last touches. I am using a piece of 1/32nd scrap as a batten and the curve is starting to settle in. I am still short on the top where I need the two layers of planking but am now reducing the height of the filler. There is nothing left to sand so I can only "ASSuME" that I must reduce the first layer of planking here. 

 

For anyone following; it took me 12 to 15 hours to hand sand these. I am sure there are those who could have powered these down in about 2 hours, sadly I am not one of them. The shape was too complicated, their importance too high and my confidence too low. I used my Pipe sander and always tried to think of how a plank would lie across the area as I sanded. When I was unsure I used my batten and tested. 

 

Here is a link to my sander

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8017-simple-sanding-jig-for-complex-shapes/?p=237878

 

Next is a complete cleaning of the shipyard. This may take a few days. Hopefully I will be gluing these on shortly and finishing with the final sanding of the bulkheads and all the fillers. Running some tests with battens and then it's gunport supports. I have learned a new method to do these so hopefully it should go a little faster then the first ones. I kind of over thought them a bit. 

Edited September 26, 2014 by JPett

[dragzz]

hello jpett its looking great  so far as for sanding thos fillers i used my ruff file on them to about half way point then went to send the rest of it so i know how long it took. there not fun but like i say it looking good u have the right bend on the plank in the pic keep up the great work 

[GuntherMT]

That filler and bulkhead picture looks like it could be a finished piece somewhere.  Nice!