Billy 1938 by Keith Black - 1:120 Scale - Homemade Sternwheeler

[Keith Black]

5 hours ago, Paul Le Wol said:

Keith, maybe you could try making the  L s  a bit heavier. Looking excellent!

 Thank you, Paul. Yes, the L's need to be heavier at the bottom. 

 

14 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

6 out of 10. You won't succeed unless you apply yourself (to quote one of my teachers from long ago)! 

 Thank you for the sage advice, John. 

 

4 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

You've got 2 different fonts to deal with and the lettering on the original has sharp lines which will be hard to duplicate freehand at this small scale, especially the serif font of the "Pittsburgh, PA". 

 I went to a serif font generator and Pittsburgh, Pa. is different than the lettering on Billy's name board. The ending "a" in the abbreviation Pa. is a lower case "a" not a small capital "A" 

 

https://www.namecheap.com/visual/font-generator/sans-serif/

 

4 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

I'm also wondering what causes those wrinkles near the top.  It almost looks like a stretched canvas that's not quite tight enough - like how my bed looks after I put the sheets on it!  That's the cool thing about these projects of yours - trying to figure out what's going on by just studying these old photos.

 Yes, the lettering was painted on canvas and badly stretched over horizontally run boards. 

 

2 hours ago, GrandpaPhil said:

Make sure you seal the paper on both sides with a clear sealant to protect it.

 Absolutely, Phil.

 

 

What is the goal?

 

 If I use printed letters it's not going to look like the letters on the name board I don't care if the "a" was the same because the lettering will look manufactured, not hand painted. Right now I'm close. The letters need to be darker and some adjustments made as Paul suggested. I am not going to use the dry transfer letters I have coming, they'll go in my stash. Once the name board is done it needs to be able to have acrylic paint applied and not be adversely affected. 

 

 The goal, IMHO, is to not only try and build as close to an exact replication as possible but to also capture the spirit of the subject. I think that lettering done by hand will far better capture the spirit of the name board than printed lettering, IMHO. The trick is, for me being one who is lettering impaired, to be able to make the lettering acceptable. A little secret, sad as it is, this is the best copying of lettering I've ever done. In the end of this project I'd like to be able to say, "yeah, I did that lettering myself"   

 

 Please forgive this little distraction as I'm stalling building the arches. I keep running the best options through my three cell computer before committing to a course of action. 

[Keith Black]

40 minutes ago, kurtvd19 said:

Just coming aboard a long way into this build.  Very interesting as usual.  I love the one of a kind builds you do Keith.  

As to the wrinkles at the top of the aft sign, I think they might be paint blisters almost ready to flake off.  Can't be a fabric - the line through the name is a separation gap between two boards - in my opinion.

 Glad to see you've pulled up a chair, Kurt. Your vast experience and input is very much appreciated. 

 

 After viewing countless times under heavy magnification I'm certain that the lettering was done on canvas, you can see the tack strips on the edges of the name board. 

 

39 minutes ago, tmj said:

What about making water slide 'decals' of the letters on your computer/printer?

 Thank you for the idea, Tom but i'm going freehand lettering and let the devil take the hindquarter. 

[tmj]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

The trick is, for me being one who is lettering impaired, to be able to make the lettering acceptable.

Don't feel bad. I think most 'everyone' struggles with calligraphy, even those artistic folks who tag train cars and bridges with spray paint! LOL

[sheepsail]

I tested fonts at Apple.   So I keep wanting to make this myself.

 

Hand lettering is done by rulers and templates.  So there probably would have been a lot of pencil lines for guides.   The other thing often used is stencils, where the guides are traced using a set of lettering curves.

 

Serifs really do make a difference.  These were tool marks back in the day letters were carved into stone and metal.   The curves on the serifs really do make it easier for the eye to glide over the glyphs.   A lot of font design is getting this right.  Much of this was also protected by patents (now expired) and trade secrets.  Like anything else it is hours of practice.    Most of our testing though was mechanical.  Missing glyphs, bad kerning tables,  bugs what could crash hardware (fonts are program subroutines.)  One time a printer was shipped with a missing font, Which was how I got hired, to test for things like that.

 

Perspective plays a large part in font design as well.   Without rulers handwriting tends to tail off on one side do to changes in perspective.   This can also be used conversely for giving things a hand lettered look.

 

When in High school even in the 1970s and before electronic bill boards,  every week a sign painter would paint the advertising sign on the corner at the entrance into the school.  Mostly public service.  I used to watch him work with fascination.   I guess he did it to keep his skills sharp.

 

 

-julie (Who is still pretending not to work on her Forester model.)

 

 

 

 

[tmj]

3 hours ago, Keith Black said:

After viewing countless times under heavy magnification I'm certain that the lettering was done on canvas, you can see the tack strips on the edges of the name board. 

Scale 'canvas' = silk span! Scale lettering = "Hmm... you're on your own with 'that' one!" LOL

Edited yesterday at 12:23 AM by tmj

[Paul Le Wol]

1 hour ago, sheepsail said:

julie (Who is still pretending not to work on her Forester model.)

😀

[Cathead]

10 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

I'm also wondering what causes those wrinkles near the top.

Pretty sure those are in the photo itself. You can see the wrinkles extending up from the sign, over the bridge pier and bridge.

 

EDIT: I posted on Page 6 without noting that discussion continued on to Page 7. I agreed with Kurt that it really looks like it's painted over boards, but I haven't done the exhaustive close-up looks Keith has. Are you certain that the tacks you see aren't nailed attaching the boards to inner framing? It would look much the same.

Edited yesterday at 01:05 AM by Cathead

[tmj]

"I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime;"

      Joe Walsh

Edited yesterday at 01:20 AM by tmj

[tmj]

Sign looks as though it has a proud wooden border / frame surrounding it...

Edited yesterday at 01:30 AM by tmj

[Harvey Golden]

Not to be left out, I also have a suggestion 😉   I also would hand letter it, but to ensure it has the odd character of the original's lettering and mis-matched weight, etc. I would trace it onto silkspan or tracing paper and then paint the back side (to form the background color). For tracing, I'd get rid of the perspective/foreshortening by simply stretching the image to what looks reasonable-- below is a simple example (it can be printed to proper size, or if you are brave, you can use your computer screen as a "light box"). A Pigma Micron or similar quality pen would make short work of it, even in tiny scale. Just thoughts-  H-

[Keith Black]

3 hours ago, sheepsail said:

very week a sign painter would paint the advertising sign on the corner at the entrance into the school.  Mostly public service.  I used to watch him work with fascination.   I guess he did it to keep his skills sharp.

 Thank you for posting, Julie. I always enjoy your post.

 

1 hour ago, Cathead said:

Pretty sure those are in the photo itself. You can see the wrinkles extending up from the sign, over the bridge pier and bridge.

 

EDIT: I posted on Page 6 without noting that discussion continued on to Page 7. I agreed with Kurt that it really looks like it's painted over boards, but I haven't done the exhaustive close-up looks Keith has. Are you certain that the tacks you see aren't nailed attaching the boards to inner framing? It would look much the same.

 Eric, I think it's painted canvas stretched over board but I could be wrong. I've been wrong so many times lately I've lost count. 

 

2 hours ago, tmj said:

Scale 'canvas' = silk span! Scale lettering = "Hmm... you're on your own with 'that' one!" LOL

 I can't imagine trying to hand letter on silk span, Tom. 

1 hour ago, tmj said:

Sign looks as though it has a proud wooden border / frame surrounding it...

 Nicely magnified image. That proud wooden border is what I think are tack strips, Tom.

 

38 minutes ago, Harvey Golden said:

Not to be left out, I also have a suggestion 😉   I also would hand letter it, but to ensure it has the odd character of the original's lettering and mis-matched weight, etc. I would trace it onto silkspan or tracing paper and then paint the back side (to form the background color). For tracing, I'd get rid of the perspective/foreshortening by simply stretching the image to what looks reasonable-- below is a simple example (it can be printed to proper size, or if you are brave, you can use your computer screen as a "light box"). A Pigma Micron or similar quality pen would make short work of it, even in tiny scale. Just thoughts-  H-

 Thank you for the suggestion, Harvey.

 

[Keith Black]

 Thank you to everyone for the likes, for your helpful suggestions, and for your patience during the name board discussions.

 

 

 Name board 1.0

 

 Name board 2.0. Lettering was washed with heavy watered down white paint. 

 

 And finally name board 3.0. The letters are hand painted with acrylic craft paint. I know there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of folks that can do ten times better than I on this lettering on the name board but this is the best I can do. I'm done trying to do any better, I'm calling it done with 3.0, no mas. 

 

 Please believe me when I say this looks a lot better at normal viewing distance than in a close up photo. 

 

 The penny for size comparison. Most of the lower case letters are 0.10" high, some a bit smaller. 

 

 Enough procrastination, on to the arches. 

 

 Again, thank you for your patience, your support, and for being part of the journey 

 

    Keith

 

Edited yesterday at 03:27 AM by Keith Black

[Jim Lad]

That looks better, Keith!

 

John

[LoydB]

13 hours ago, tmj said:

"I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime;"

      Joe Walsh

 

 

I'm a huge Joe Walsh nerd. Your quote timing is on point. For only $25K+, you can own Joe's ARP 2500...

https://www.juliensauctions.com/en/items/2103588/joe-walsh-arp-2500-synthesizer-and-barnstorm-wing-cabinet

 

Sadly, I'm not bidding

 

Edited yesterday at 02:49 PM by LoydB
typo

[Coyote_6]

I have done the home made water slides on cars to nice effect.  Definitely worth a try if you haven't done them before!

 

Fuel filter decal...

 

Seat cover decal...

 

Custom license plates...

 

You need decal paper, acrylic clear coat and decal setting solution but it is sure fun!

Edited yesterday at 03:54 PM by Coyote_6

[Rick310]

Love it Keith!!

My father was from Pittsburgh!

Love the city!!

Rick

[TBlack]

I love your patience in soliciting ideas and your polite responses. Mom would be proud of you! And your final result looks just fine; don’t agonize over it.

[Keith Black]

11 hours ago, Jim Lad said:

That looks better, Keith!

 Thank you very much, John.

 

41 minutes ago, Coyote_6 said:

I have done the home made water slides on cars to nice effect.  Definitely worth a try if you haven't done them before!

 Thank you for the suggestion, Steve. 

 

34 minutes ago, Rick310 said:

Love it Keith!!

My father was from Pittsburgh!

Love the city!!

 Thank you, Rick. 

[Keith Black]

2 minutes ago, TBlack said:

I love your patience in soliciting ideas and your polite responses. Mom would be proud of you! And your final result looks just fine; don’t agonize over it.

 Thank you so very much, Tom. Brother, I've missed seeing you about, I hope all is well. 

[Geordie Tyne]

That sign looks great to my eyes. A great bit of work.

 

Regards

[Keith Black]

1 hour ago, Geordie Tyne said:

That sign looks great to my eyes. A great bit of work.

 Thank you kindly, Geordie.

[TBlack]

6 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 Thank you so very much, Tom. Brother, I've missed seeing you about, I hope all is well. 

Keith, bro, I’ve been having some medical issues, but I’ve got 4 doctors pouring over me. They’ll get it figured out. 

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, TBlack said:

Keith, bro, I’ve been having some medical issues, but I’ve got 4 doctors pouring over me. They’ll get it figured out. 

 My thoughts are with you, Tom. 

[Knocklouder]

Well Tom you made it to the black list lol, I will add your name to my list right under Keith's lol.

 Your sign looks great, that bubbling at the top may be vener lifting off because of  moisture,  but your's is  great. Go with that.

Bob  M.  

[Keith Black]

7 hours ago, Knocklouder said:

Well Tom you made it to the black list lol, I will add your name to my list right under Keith's lol.

 Your sign looks great, that bubbling at the top may be vener lifting off because of  moisture,  but your's is  great. Go with that.

Bob  M

 Thank you, much appreciated, Bob.

[KeithAug]

12 hours ago, TBlack said:

I’ve been having some medical issues,

I'm sorry to hear that Tom, I do hope that it does not inhibit Christmas festivities. Best wishes.

[Cathead]

That followup zoomed in photo means I could go either way on the fabric vs board debate. Either is believable as a method used on the real thing. There's definitely distortion in the photo itself but other aspects of that view do imply fabric. Whatever Keith decides on this one will make sense and look right.

[Javelin]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm waiting for those paddle wheels Keith! 

 

But I do believe that's fabric. 

 

 

[Keith Black]

8 hours ago, Cathead said:

That followup zoomed in photo means I could go either way on the fabric vs board debate. Either is believable as a method used on the real thing. There's definitely distortion in the photo itself but other aspects of that view do imply fabric. Whatever Keith decides on this one will make sense and look right.

 The finished name board on my model of Billy is 1/64" birch ply so it really doesn't matter how Billy's original name board was constructed as I won't be trying to replicate the wrinkles/bubbles. It's purely the opinion of each individual viewer and each opinion is as good as the other.  

 

7 hours ago, Javelin said:

I don't know about you guys, but I'm waiting for those paddle wheels Keith! 

 Go ahead, yuck it up, Roel.   Making the wheels will be like making butterfly wings but that task is much less daunting in my mind than making the arches. The arches have me pretty intimidated right at this moment but I need to commit or be committed.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Keith Black