ebonizing boxwood

[Kurt Johnson]

I am thinking of using ebonized boxwood for the wales of my next ship model.  I've read of using aniline dyes for this. Can you dye them with aniline and alcohol, then soak them in water to bend to the form needed?  If I mix the dye with water, would the later soaking process make a mess?  Also can you store the dye, or does it need to be made up each time?

 

Kurt

[ChrisLBren]

Go with Fiebings Black Shoe dye on Swiss Pear for your wales - it takes the dye better than boxwood.  I use 4 coats - they dry instantly then buff with an old t shirt.  I then top coat with Watcos Danish Oil.

[druxey]

I do all the shaping and bending before using shoe dye.

[Kurt Johnson]

Do you think it would be possible to stain the stem from the wales upwards and control the stain. The stem is boxwood. If I scribe a real fine demarcation line, finish and seal from the wales down. Do you think the stain would creep under and into the lower part.  Naturally I'd experiment.

 

How do you find pear for bending into place? I haven't worked with it before.

[Rustyj]

I have not used the dye ...yet.... but I have used swiss pear and for me it has similar bending characteristics as boxwood.

[ChrisLBren]

Pear bends very easily - on my Confederacy - I built the wales and dyed them on the model - using a demarcation line and Tamiya tape - I was successful not having it bleed onto the stem.  I then planked the rest of my model afterwards.  

[mgdawson]

I am thinking of using ebonized boxwood for the wales of my next ship model.  I've read of using aniline dyes for this. Can you dye them with aniline and alcohol, then soak them in water to bend to the form needed?

 

Kurt

Hey Kurt

 

If you're looking at actual ebonizing rather than stain / dye this link might be of interest. Haven't tried it myself so can't really make any further comment.

 

http://www.routerforums.com/finishing-touch/38180-taking-run-ebonizing.html

 

Mark

Edited October 21, 2013 by mgdawson

[druxey]

I would definitely cut in a demarkation line as insurance against bleeding. Masking tape alone will not prevent dye 'creep'. To do an experimental run off-model is a very good move!

[Jaxboat]

I have used the dye very successfully even on my first try. I really recommend applying the stuff before you mount the wood. The dye is very low viscosity and micro splashes can occur. You can also have problems if you have residual glue on the wood surfaceI applied the dye with an old brush. You can readily clean up the brush with IPA. The final appearance of the wood is awesome with great jetness and surface appearance. At Druxey's suggestion, I applied a thin coat via soft cloth and buffed lightly. This procedue gave a lovely light 60 degree sheen. I used the dye on Basswood for the ME Confederacy. The wood took it like a sponge. I will use Box or Pear next time although there was no issue with the basswood other than the dye looks better on Box or Pear.

Best

Jaxboat

[ca.shipwright]

I have used a black jumbo waterproof Sharpie for ebonizing boxwood. I used 3 coats, letting them dry between applications. Then apply a rub on polyeurethane product. Buff out with a soft cloth. Of course, it's best if the wood has been cut and shaped to the finished dimensions before starting the ebonizing procedure. You can also do the same procedure with long pieces. You then cut them to finished size and touch up the edges. Either way worked for me.

[Pygothian]

As I'm pretty new to this, I'm curious as to the differences this makes to painting the wales black ?

 

Does it look better ?

 

Anyone have an example comparing black paint vs this dye ebonizing ?

 

Sorry for my ignorance, just curious, as it seems quite tricky, and not without risk if mistakes a made.

[Bill Hime]

As I'm pretty new to this, I'm curious as to the differences this makes to painting the wales black ?

 

Does it look better ?

 

Anyone have an example comparing black paint vs this dye ebonizing ?

 

Sorry for my ignorance, just curious, as it seems quite tricky, and not without risk if mistakes a made.

 

With ebonizing, you're looking to create a luster that permeates from within the wood becoming aprt of the wood's characteristic. Paint, no matter the application, still sits on top of the wood.

 

 

Bill

[Bill Hime]

So here's what I've been thinking of trying;

 

Rubbing the wood down heavily and generously with Kiwi brand black shoe polish. Wrap the planks in wet cheese cloth then baking them in the oven at 180-200 degrees F.

Afterwards, rubbing them out with linseed oil.

 

 

Bill

[WackoWolf]

Bill,

 

   Let us know what happen with your test. I like the idea but never heard of anyone baking it. So now you gut my attention and I would like to know what happens. Pictures would also be nice.

Edited November 19, 2013 by WackoWolf

[Pygothian]

Thanks for clearing this up.

 

As I've never physically seen ebony, I guess it's something I'll have to keep an eye out for.

 

From everyone's description however, sounds hard to work with, and maybe not for a beginner.

 

Cheers

Rowan

[mtaylor]

Thanks for clearing this up.

 

As I've never physically seen ebony, I guess it's something I'll have to keep an eye out for.

 

From everyone's description however, sounds hard to work with, and maybe not for a beginner.

 

Cheers

Rowan

 

If you've ever seen a piano that's more than about 25 years old, the black keys were probably ebony.   Also, many guitars have it on the fretboard. (I think that's the term for it)    It's a beautiful wood when finished but a real pain to work with.

[mtaylor]

By the way, there's also this topic which has info about ebonizing:   http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/3696-what-woods-do-you-prefer-to-use/

[JPett]

So here's what I've been thinking of trying;

 

Rubbing the wood down heavily and generously with Kiwi brand black shoe polish. Wrap the planks in wet cheese cloth then baking them in the oven at 180-200 degrees F.

Afterwards, rubbing them out with linseed oil.

 

 

Bill

 Ahoy Bill

 

I think you have a great idea. I believe that wrapping the wood/ wetted cheese cloth in a dark towel and exposing it to direct sunlight might keep the Admiral happier. God forbid. Either that or make sure you hide any cast iron cookware before you start.

 

 

PS: I heard but could be wrong, that Walnut and Pear was easier to do. Comments welcome

Edited November 19, 2013 by JPett

[Bill Hime]

 Ahoy Bill

 

I think you have a great idea. I believe that wrapping the wood/ wetted cheese cloth in a dark towel and exposing it to direct sunlight might keep the Admiral happier. God forbid. Either that or make sure you hide any cast iron cookware before you start.

 

 

PS: I heard but could be wrong, that Walnut and Pear was easier to do. Comments welcome

Hey JPett,

 

Actually the Admiral thought it was a good idea . Since she also cooks for a living, she's interested in how it turns out and wants to do several test runs at different temperatures.

We will definitely be doing this soon. I will do a detailed post of the process and outline the variable approaches regarding temperatures, duration, wood and outcome. I think we will also use some larger blocks of wood to cut down to show penetration.

Should be fun !

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill

[Bill Hime]

Hey guys,

I'm going to open this discussion up again! It's been almost a year, lol but I have all the the supplies to do some testing on the ebonizing I discussed previously in this discussion. It's late tonight, but tomorrow, Sunday, I will be spending the day working on this. I will detail with photos and thoughts on the outcome

So here we go WackoWolf

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill

[Bill Hime]

Brian,

Actually I'm using cherry, as it has similar characteristics to pear. And Brian, it's not the cost of the wood that's important, it's the outcome . eventually, I will be trying several species to find the best material for this application.

Nice to see you again Brian, hope all is well my friend

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill

[NMBROOK]

Hi Bill

 

With your woodworking experience I would give serious consideration to using the real deal.I used to shy away from Ebony after reading all the 'negative press' but one day I thought I would give it a go as a bit of a challenge.Now I have sussed all the little idiosyncrasies of working with this timber,I do actually find it both a pleasure and rewarding to work with.Just a thought my friend.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel 

[Bill Hime]

Hello Nigel!

Yes I do agree. Today in fact, I looked through some nice pieces of ebony. I will definitely work with ebony soon. I wanted to give this method a thorough testing for those who might be limited in choice by conviction or pocket book

 

Always a pleasure to hear from you!

 

Bill

[Ulises Victoria]

I'm planning to try this product on the wales of my Royal Louis. Will post results when done.

Don't be mislead by the words "metallic finish" that only applies to metallic finishes like gold, silver, copper, etc.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Brickyard-Ceramics-Crafts-Buff-Ebony/dp/B0002IXUQG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1411300821&sr=8-2&keywords=rub%27n+buff+ebony

Ulises

Edited September 21, 2014 by Ulises Victoria

[Mike Y]

Pardon for a stupid question, but what is so messy about ebony? I only saw in the logs that it is

* Really hard to bend

* Hard wood, hard to sand to shape

* Some people have a bad allergic reaction to ebony

 

Is that it? Or there is something else? Thinking of using ebony for false keel and wales..

Edited September 21, 2014 by Mike Y

[dgbot]

Ebony is a beautiful and stunning wood. But it can be a bear cat to work with. Super hard. Not easily bendable. Dulls blades and the dust is like coal. But the end result I worth. Many years ago I went to an antique show in the suburb of Winnetka at an old manor. I saw coffee table made from ebony with maple trim, a first. I almost fainted. It was perfect. I forgot the price. Today I doubt it could be done.

David B

[Mike Y]

Brian, I am idiot, I meant ebony of course

David, thanks for explanation! Will probably try it anyway, and fallback to painted boxwood if I will fail to tame that tricky wood

[druxey]

This has been discussed many times before on MSW. My take is that ebony is a beautiful specie to use - on furniture, not models. As mentioned by many, it doesn't bend easily, does not glue well, dust is nasty and toxic to some folk... need I go on?

 

Ebonising is most easily accomplished by wood or leather dye. I find the latter works well for me. After painting the shaped and sanded piece with dye, I buff the finish with a paper towel and I'm done. Pear, holly or Costello all take dye well.

[nancysqueaks]

Hi, yes I agree ebony is a most disagreeable wood, but can look simply stunning for wales. Ebonising

as practiced for furniture is not too tricky, and the results are really very similar to genuine ebony.

 

Whilst most woods can be used, filling the grain can result in poor finish, so the type of wood

used in model shipbuilding - close grained wood - apple, pear, holly, box, cherry etc. is ideal.

 

We are attempting to produce the deep black but satin finish. First the wood is stained as near black as possible.

The steel wool in vinegar may be a little too light, however drawing ink is excellent and I have recently used

inkjet pigment ink with very good results. Stains are also available usually for creating 'black ash'.

 

The stained wood now needs a finish and this is usually Shellac (French Polish) with the addition of a black pigment.

I use Vegetable Black, but the tradition is Lamp Black. The application  of polish on such small pieces

of wood is easy using a small folded pad of cotton. Apply thin coats and amalgamate each coat with a polishing action,

eventually a deep shine will result. This is not what is wanted, so very fine parallel scratches are put on the surface with

either a fine cutting powder or fine grade silicon carbide paper. It is important that the scratches are in lines close together

and in the same direction.

 

This cutting or scratching is really best done after the polish has hardened - maybe up to a week. The finish achieved can

be 'show stopping' and is very close to looking like burnished ebony.

 

I am rebuilding my workshop at the moment, but will attempt to take some photos of the process for those that are interested.

 

A final warning - the fingers will be very black for about a week. 

 

 Apologies for long post, cheers, Nick.

[Bill Hime]

Good post Nick! And not long at all. I brought this subject up again because last year I had promised to try something new and share the outcome. I spent all day yesterday working the process of using Kiwi shoe polish and linseed oil heated and applied. I will share the pics and explain the process. It did initially come up short but I'm not done.

Bottom line, staining is staining using ink or dye. Ebonizing is different. As you briefly mentioned, the vinegar/steel wool solution is as close to the actual natural process that occurs in the tree. The solution interacts with the tannin's in the wood, causing an oxidation in the surface cells. The more natural tannins in a wood, the greater the reaction. Oak, cherry, pear, and walnut, have an excellent reaction to this process, walnut to the greater extent.

I'm actually setup to do this and could do this later this week with pics.

What I'm working on now is actually doing a soaking bath where one could keep planking and other finished parts in the bath, the longer the better. The idea being infusing the black deep into the wood. I think naphtha is the key ingredient here to creating the almost waxy feeling a piece of ebony has, thus why I'm focusing on Kiwi shoe polish as the pigment medium.

 

Warm Regards,

 

Bill