Royal William by pirozzi - FINISHED - Euromodels - 1/70

[gjdale]

Hi Vince,

 

Nice progress. If you are going to replace any timber at all, I suggest you contact Jeff at Hobbymill there in the US. (Link to the website on the home page of MSW). Jeff mills all his own timber and will provide you with whatever you want milled to exact dimensions. His customer service is second to none and his prices are reasonable. If he doesn't have Tanganyika, he will give you some alternative suggestions. And believe me, he knows his stuff. If you email him, he will respond promptly with advice and questions to make sure you get exactly what you want/need. While not wanting to bag Modellers Shipyard in Australia, I will just observe that they are essentially a mail order company. Timber that they sell is generally imported from kit manufacturers overseas (eg AL). I know this from first hand experience. I live in Australia, but buy all my timber now from Hobbymill in the US.

[fnkershner]

Vince - Grant beat me to it. I was going to offer the same suggestion. Rather than go all the way to AU to get you lumber Jeff does a great job and is much closer. By the way currently Jeff is so popular he is already backed up until April. I know I have an order in the queue now. You will not be disappointed with the quality and service from Jeff.

 

Also I would have just left this with Grant but I wanted to suggest you look at the other choices that are available for deck planking. Tanganyika is commonly used by many European kit manufacturers for this purpose. But if you are going to go to the trouble to order replacement lumber there an many better choices. I would look around this forum and what others are using for this purpose. You will be pleasantly surprised at the result. If you are still sold on Tanganyika I will be glad to send you all of mine. Tell me what your size requirements are and quantity. I am replacing all of mine with wood from Jeff.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Floyd Kershner

[pirozzi]

Vince,

 

the kit you have does include Tanganyka. ( well mine does ) Its the pale amber/ orange second planking in your kit. It also has walnut and this is the dark brown colour. 

Hi Brian,

The second planking is 6mm x 1mm and is a redish colored wood. It may be tanganyka, but I am not a wood expert. The deck planks are 4mm x 0.5mm and are definetly walnut. It is too dark to use as deck planking. Like I said, I bleached it and it looks like real decking. I am going to use it and not buy any extra wood.

Your ship is looking very nice.

 

Vince P.

[pirozzi]

Hi Vince,

 

Nice progress. If you are going to replace any timber at all, I suggest you contact Jeff at Hobbymill there in the US. (Link to the website on the home page of MSW). Jeff mills all his own timber and will provide you with whatever you want milled to exact dimensions. His customer service is second to none and his prices are reasonable. If he doesn't have Tanganyika, he will give you some alternative suggestions. And believe me, he knows his stuff. If you email him, he will respond promptly with advice and questions to make sure you get exactly what you want/need. While not wanting to bag Modellers Shipyard in Australia, I will just observe that they are essentially a mail order company. Timber that they sell is generally imported from kit manufacturers overseas (eg AL). I know this from first hand experience. I live in Australia, but buy all my timber now from Hobbymill in the US.

Hi Grant,

Thanks for the info. I looked at the website and they have most anything. I will definetely keep them in mind if I need to order wood.

 

Vince P.

[pirozzi]

The solid bow contour block has to be cut into 2 pieces, one for each side of the hull. You would think to just cut it in half and then apply the contour to each piece. If you do that, there will not be enough lumber to make both pieces. You have to carefully place the whole block on the hull and trace the contour lines. I guess they were really trying to save lumber here. Even another 1/4" added to the length would have made it much easier. Once the contour lines are marked for both sides of the hull, you cut the block on the dotted line. (See attached photos) You have at best only about 1/16" to make the cut. :o    I don't have a saw that will cut that sized piece very accurately. I will have to bug one of my carpenter friends.

 

Vince P.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Vince P.

[pirozzi]

There are contoured blocks of plywood that are fastened to the rearmost bulkhead. Part #18 attaches to the front of bulkhead #8, one on each side of the hull, and parts #28 and 29 are first glued together and then attached to the rear of bulkhead #8.The purpose of these blocks is to increase the cross section of the bulkhead to support the planking as it takes the sharp turn upward to end at the transom. The positioning of these blocks is not very clear in the plans, but is very important because of the planking and the transom construction.

 

Part #18 and its location are shown on plan sheet #4 and can be placed by taking a measurement right from the plans. Parts 28 and 29 which are now glued together should be parallel and butted up against the sternpost and even with the lower contour of bulkhead #8.

 

Obviously these parts and the last 3 bulkheads will have to be beveled considerably to allow the flow of the planking. Once they are shaped properly, I will post more photos.

 

Vince P.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Vince P.

[mtaylor]

Vince,

 

My guess on that reddish wood is something they call "red mahogany".  What it really is, is anyone's guess.  AL calls one wood that and another wood is called "coral".   So... maybe someone who knows will tell you.

[piratepete007]

'Red Mahogany'

 

I can definitely tell you that the second planking supplied by Euromodel is walnut - 'European Walnut' comes in a variety of colours. A common complaint with mahogany (and there are many different colours for that as well) is that it is so brittle. It would be most unsuitable for second planking and I doubt that Euromodel, given their excellent record on quality control,  would have supplied that by mistake. I sent them a query and they do not generally keep strips of mahogany in stock.  On occasions, they DO include a few pieces of mahogany but that is only for carving and definitely not as strips. I did obtain some 0.5 x 2 mm. strips of mahogany last year and even after soaking in ammonia solution for three days, it was still brittle. Strips of mahogany are something I keep away from.

 

Pete

[DenPink]

Hi Pete and Brian

I used mahogany on the bottom of my SOS keel just to give it a bit of a contrast from the hull colour.

Yes it is brittle it has a very open grain but a very nice colour.

All the mahogany I have and in the past has always been a very rich red colour.

But this may depend on the country and part of the tree it came from.

 

The worst wood for contrast in colour is walnut.

 

Denis.

[pirozzi]

As I said, this kit is closer to a scratch build than a kit build. Most kits come with provisions in the precut parts of the false keel and bulkheads for installing the bowsprit later on. This one does not. There is a certain point while constructing the hull that this must be addressed before things get covered up. Now is the time, even before placing the solid bow section, any planking at all, and before working on any of the decks above the lowest gun deck. With the bottom gun deck secured in place and the hull stringers secured, it is time to deal with the bowsprit. The plans show about a 40 degree angle running on top of the stem and down to a quasi bulkhead just behind bulkhead "E". This bulkhead must be fabricated and secured to the lower gun deck just behind bulkhead "E". A line is drawn on the stem where the bowsprit will rest and then a big piece of the stem has to be removed above this line. In addition, parts of bulkheads "F" and "E" have to be cut away to allow the bowsprit to pass through. Some supports have to be added to shore up the bulkheads that were cut. The bowsprit can now be dry fitted and beveled at the end to butt up against the added bulkhead and then removed and put away. Next up is to fit and secure the real stem, keel, and sternpost. They don't address these until way later, but they must be in place before the first planking, as the planks have to terminate on them at the bow, stern, and bottom of the hull.

 

Vince P.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Vince P.

[Sailor1234567890]

Interesting that they wouldn't address this in the kit. 

[piratepete007]

Brian,

That is exactly what I did - planking first and then the bowsprit but either way it would not be a problem. Vince is to be commended for his attention to detail. The only real indication of the bowsprit seating comes in Plan Sheet 8 which is intended for the finer detail of scratch building. Just a matter of interpretation.

[piratepete007]

.... and Brian,

 

Because of what I did (and what you will do), the hole generated for the bowsprit seating does not need to go right down to the bulkhead - just enough to secure the mast.

Pete

[maggsl_01]

Hi all...

 

is this "problem" with the bowsprit typicall for Euro Models? I mean do they always force you to "scratch" although you would expect a detailled plan? Its because I also want to bulid a Euro Models kit some far away day (Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde). It seems it will be good to gain more and more expierence before I dare to go to Euro Models... But on the other hand this hobby is such a good thing to learn about models and ships... Thanx that there is a forum, like MSW

 

Cheerio

Max

 

[piratepete007]

Max,

Good to see you buying in to these comments about the bowsprit. There is no problem at all for Vince, Brian or myself; its just a matter of how we interpret these Euromodel plans. No, they are not scratch builds and I would prefer to call them quasi-scratch. The drawings are phenomenal in their detail so there is no problem there. The thing about these plans is that once you start building a Euromodel ship, you are 'drawn into a vortex' and cannot help but add far more detail to the basic build. It is a little addictive to say the least and once you start, you find yourself reaching for references that will enable you to add your own extra bits and pieces. You do not have to do this at all and just build a basic model. Do you have to be very experienced ?  Not really but having built a couple of other ships would be useful and Euromodel is endeavouring to publish detailed notes.

 

I am currently strongly focused on building the ship of your dreams - the Friederich Wilhelm zu Pferde (a German frigate) - and it is the most fantastic ship I have ever built. Having said that much, have a look at the Euromodel website under 'Customer Assistance' and see what I am writing.

 

Trust I have addressed your concerns Max.

 

Pete

[maggsl_01]

Thank you Pete!

 

I understand now what the "problem" is... And - of course - I will be pleased to see and get further pics or drawings or information to build the ship more realistic as "just" in the basic way. And that is what I mean with expierence - the more I know about modelling this ships (my Half Moon is at least the first attempt to get along with this wonderful hobby) the more fun, satisfaction and knowlegde I will reach. Therefore it is a challenge to do this great ship - but of course not now, perhaps in some years, after some other models.

 

Thank you again Pete

 

Cheerio

 

Max 

[pirozzi]

Hi all...

 

is this "problem" with the bowsprit typicall for Euro Models? I mean do they always force you to "scratch" although you would expect a detailled plan? Its because I also want to bulid a Euro Models kit some far away day (Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde). It seems it will be good to gain more and more expierence before I dare to go to Euro Models... But on the other hand this hobby is such a good thing to learn about models and ships... Thanx that there is a forum, like MSW

 

Cheerio

Max

 

Hi Max,

There is really no problem with the bowsprit. It is just that the Euro kits are set up more for builders that have some scratch building experience. You must really examine the plans (which are superb, thank goodness) and then plan an overall course of action before building anything. It is actually much more fun and challenging this way.

 

Vince P.

[pirozzi]

Placing the stem and the real keel. The stem is solid walnut and 7mm thick. It is heavy and I didn't trust just a glue joint to hold it on, since much will be hanging off this piece including very large metal figures. I drilled 1.6mm holes from the outside into this and the false keel about 30mm deep. I inserted 1.5mm brass rods at the top, middle and bottom and drove them in below the surface with thick CA glue. If you look at the last photo, you can see one of these pins just below the surface. I did not worry about glue stains or the holes for the pins because the whole thing will be planked with walnut strips later on.  A very small amount of adjusting using a sanding wheel was necessary to match the curves of the false keel and the stem.

I also placed the 1.5mm pins in the keel piece as well. Since there was nothing to hold clamps to, I used some planking clamps I had bought which I could never get to work correctly. They did work for this however, so I got my money's worth afterall.  It is important to note that the plans call for making the keel from 3 pieces of lumber, but the kit comes with a single 6x7mm walnut board instead, that must be shaped into the keel. The last thing to do here is to attach the sternpost, but some shaping of the keel is necessary first.

 

Vince P.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Vince P.

[maggsl_01]

Thank you all...

 

I see more and more that Euro Model-Kits are really something that I should keep in my eyes - for later  But: What about the Derfflinger? Has anyone any knowledge about this ship - quasi as a "starter" with Euro Models...

 

I really love this Forum with its Kind fellow friends...

 

Cheerio

 

Max

[pirozzi]

The sternpost in place and the stern blocks contoured. I shaved at least half of the mass of the blocks and more has to be sanded off. I will wait until the planking is started and shave more to best suit the plank sweep.

 

Vince P.

[edmay]

Hello Vince,This will be log for many to learn from,not only for this particular model,in essence its your thoroughness in planning with the ability to foresee possible problem areas and discuss them ,especially with good incoming help from the members, A nice start will follow your build and learn,thanks Edwin

Edited January 31, 2014 by edmay

[piratepete007]

I too would add my support for what Vince is doing. It has all the hallmarks of a great build log. Vince's work has caused me to go back to material that I wrote for Euromodel a number of years ago - material that is unfinished. It was not and never will be a 'build log' but more of a diversified source of interpretation that hopefully others like Vince might find useful but not prescriptive in a 'this is how it should be built' type thing. Under 'Customer Assistance' on Euromodel's webpage, I have just placed 'RW.INT.01.v5' which translated means Royal William Interpretive File Part 1 Version 5. With Vince's permission, I have incorporated a number of photos from his build log. What I have written over the past week is due to Vince's fine work on MSW causing me to rethink how I have presented my own materials. So thanks for that Vince.

 

This is one of those classic situations where positive criticism becomes a valuable tool.

 

Pete

[riverboat]

Very interesting build Vince.... will be ck'n in from time to time

Frank

[pirozzi]

OK, so I made a boo-boo.    The sternpost is 2mm narrower than the thickness of the false keel. I made a note to taper the stern end of the false keel so it would be 2mm narrower than the sternpost. This way the first planking would terminate slightly below the surface of the sternpost with a little shaving of the plank ends.

I got side tracked thinking of so many other things to do that I forgot to do it before securing the sternpost.

I fixed it by tapering the false keel to the thickness of the sternpost and then cutting a rabbett 1mm deep along the edge of the false keel. The first planking will now terminate just below the surface of the sternpost as it is supposed to. The second layer of planking will form a smooth joint with the sternpost with a little tapering.

Thanks to Peter from Euromodel for pointing out the issue before I got too far along.

That makes 2 mistakes so far that I had to dig my way out of.  I hope there will be no more.

 

Vince P.

[GTM]

Hej Vince,

 

I’m not sure in what order the euromodel instructions guide you at this stage but...

i noticed you allready have placed the false keel at this stage of the build.

 

In my instructions (OCCRE) I had to place the false keel first at a pretty late stage ..

 

Personally I would start with “shaping” all the frames (and keel) and check the lines with a lath before even placing the false keel..

..Check out here what I mean..

Edited February 2, 2014 by GTM

[piratepete007]

Theo ... I totally agree with your above comments. It is so important to get the lines of the ship 'shipshape' with the beveling and tapering two von ery important steps to follow through. The Euromodel RW notes are always in a state of flux - the latest to be posted on their website 4 February (RW.INT. v6 - royal William interpretive file version 6) - the notes have always focused on first planking first followed by the false keel etc at a later stage.

 

In support of Vince, no matter how carefully I work, I do make big mistakes as well (and assume most others do). It just seems part of the process and learning. It is just interesting to see him develop a method of getting back on track.

 

Pete

[piratepete007]

Well, yes and no - this would work well towards the stern provided the keel had been tapered down to the rabbet groove so its not just a matter of cutting the groove. Along much of the length of the ship, the planks simply butt up against the false keel so there is no problem.

Pete

[pirozzi]

Two more steps in the hull construction.

 

1. The mizzen mast bottom rests on the lower gun deck. A stepping block needs to be fabricated and secured to the lower gun deck before things get covered up. With all 3 lower decks either secured or dry fitted in place, the mizzen mast is inserted through the decks and placed vertically and at the correct cant. A wood block with an 8mm hole is then located on the gun deck and glued in place. It is also painted black to keep it hidden.

 

2. The solid bow blocks are carved down to the contoured shape. The photo shows before and after. Make sure to do this in a ventilated area. The amount of saw dust created was enormous. I am still coughing.

 

Vince P.

[piratepete007]

Vince - I agree about the dust. When I get going on this sort of thing I adorn the following  - large apron + cap over my hair + ear muffs + filter mask over my nostrils. Even so, the dust has affected me at times and especially if sanding mdf board watch that because the ingredients in that are not healthy to ingest.

Pete

 

Great photos of your work on the RW

[piratepete007]

The RW bow blocks are a lime wood timber which is a lightweight material commonly used in carving (e.g. Viking shields, puppets, statues, etc). The initial shaping was done by the use of a bench-mounted sanding disc. Then working with a Dremel power tool with flexible drive and a small sanding drum attached and to be honest the 'carving' was surprisingly very straightforward to do (maybe a lot more effort in just using normal carving tools). However, what was required in the end was a 'good eye' for shape.

Pete