DSiemens Posted April 17, 2013 #241 Posted April 17, 2013 I should clarify I don't mean to say that it is easy because i know it's not. What I mean to say is you do it so well and so consistently it appears to be easy for you. Your work is incredible I really can't wait to see the rigging come together with all that shiny brass. Quote Daniel We're ship in bottle builders, it's an occupational hazard. www.siemensbottlingco.blogspot.com http://www.bottledshipbuilder.com Current Builds: Bermuda Sloop Wood Krafters Pirate Ship Completed: 20 Gun Frigate Olympic 470 Bermuda Sloop Super Mini Queen Anne's Revenge German Cutter Mercury Santa Maria
Jim Lad Posted April 17, 2013 #242 Posted April 17, 2013 Sometimes I wonder why I go to all this effort but I am having a lot of fun. That's exactly why you go to all that effort, mate - because you're having so much fun! John Quote
jo conrad Posted April 17, 2013 #243 Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) That's exactly why you go to all that effort, mate - because you're having so much fun! John No, John, he´s having the fun and the sweat, and we´re having the joy and a bit of disbelieve, while we´re snugly stowed atop of our perfectly balanced and ergonomically well-designed office-chairs and watch his efforts on our screens, a cup of coffee or a decent mug full of beer in reach - birds and bees and sun and my squealing two cats in the garden, under the trees, reporting that spring is around the corner after all - and just stare. I admit a bit of grudge, but only a tiny bit. Next thing I´ll be after - such is the way to megalomania !- will be a good, old-fashioned cast-iron lathe, that´s for sure ! By the way: isn´t there a list somewhere of the shackles needed for this smack, where he/we could take the proper sizes and then scale them down to 1:8 ? Greetings, and have a sunny spring, all of you. Germanus Edited April 17, 2013 by jo conrad Quote
michael mott Posted April 17, 2013 Author #244 Posted April 17, 2013 Alex I use a small centre drill with an X Y table and hold the shackle by slipping it over a piece of maple in the vice. I will take a photo of the drilling when I get to the drilling of the rest. Daniel I am also looking forward to the rest of the rigging, The thing that appears a little daunting is all the rope I am going to have to make, and sewing the sails. John you are exactly right. Germanus, thanks for looking in and giving me that critical eye. So now I will have to re evaluate the whole Shackle issue to make sure they pass inspection. Germanus a good lathe is one of those tools that I would suggest is something to search for, they can be had if you look hard enough. I would be lost without mine ...... no I would jury rig something;>) Yea it is sunny today , I think a lot of the snow will melt today. Michael mtaylor 1 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
popeye the sailor Posted April 17, 2013 #245 Posted April 17, 2013 great stuff Micheal! those fittings and shackles make this the most realistic build..........superb job! Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch
jo conrad Posted April 17, 2013 #246 Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) No, Michael, I´m not playing the criticaster, though Germans are said to love carping around a bit. Weeell, that may be the case, now and then, but only, if need be. Nobody is perfect, not even Germans. But in this case it´s definitely no: not me casting critical eyes on your work. Maybe I just have a well-trained eye for the proportions of naval things in general. Rude looking cordage or - as in this case- too small/too big shackles can spoil a model more than necessary. Carry on, lieutenant Mott. We´ll follow in your wake. Germanus Edited April 17, 2013 by jo conrad Quote
Carlos Mariano Posted April 17, 2013 #247 Posted April 17, 2013 Hello Michael I´ve been following your excelent work ; Thank you for all those fotos , they are very interesting to me Best regards carlos Quote
michael mott Posted April 17, 2013 Author #248 Posted April 17, 2013 Popeye, thanks for the though. Germanus, thanks again for your thoughts and compliments, I have found another great link regarding shackles and their sizes and capacities Very interesting this will help me in the long run. Carlos, thanks for looking in. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
Carlos Mariano Posted April 18, 2013 #249 Posted April 18, 2013 Hello Michael Mot In the begining of your work you write that you based on the British Smack Plans ,I noticed that you make several transformations in the hull. The hull is more deep ,also de queel is very long ,this modifications are made to have a better sail ? Regards carlos Quote
michael mott Posted April 18, 2013 Author #250 Posted April 18, 2013 Carlos, In the very beginning of building this model I really did not know very much about this type of vessel. This model will be going into the water and I noticed that many of the sailing models added an external Keel to give the model stability, I did not want to do this, and Since my model is based on a set of plans that were quite simple there were only five stations plus a transom on the MAP plans. I modified it so that the ballast will be internal. All the rest of the details are really am amalgam of cutters and smacks. Now that I am learning a few things the next model will be drawn to better reflect the real shape of the cutter's hull form. In fact the next model will be either Doris which is a Bawley or Shamrock V, I have the Rene Sarero plans of Shamrock to build an 8 foot long hull. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
DSiemens Posted April 19, 2013 #251 Posted April 19, 2013 8 Feet?!?! Wow that's huge. It would be incredible seeing it sail though. Quote Daniel We're ship in bottle builders, it's an occupational hazard. www.siemensbottlingco.blogspot.com http://www.bottledshipbuilder.com Current Builds: Bermuda Sloop Wood Krafters Pirate Ship Completed: 20 Gun Frigate Olympic 470 Bermuda Sloop Super Mini Queen Anne's Revenge German Cutter Mercury Santa Maria
Carlos Mariano Posted April 19, 2013 #252 Posted April 19, 2013 Hello Michael Mott I know there are some plans we can buy , they aren´t cheep but they are good plans ; but today I think you don´t need those plans ,because you already have a hull you can watch this site and look for the plans http://www.workingsail.co.uk/ There are many places to give an idea and to give you some inspiration https://www.facebook.com/carlotta1899pilotcutter http://bcpcoa.com/ http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?147382-Designing-a-7-ton-cutter http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10150361373143176&type=1 http://www.ten-wolde.net/Smack/drawings/ESYdraw.html http://www.betty-ck145.de/docueng/smacks/smack_plans.html Best regards Carlos Quote
Carlos Mariano Posted April 19, 2013 #253 Posted April 19, 2013 I´m also a great Pilot Cutters lover do you know ??? Quote
michael mott Posted April 19, 2013 Author #254 Posted April 19, 2013 Carlos, thank you for those links, I already know of some of them but others were new. Now that half my day has gone reading I will head out to the shop toss some firewood into the stove and ponder the next step. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
michael mott Posted April 20, 2013 Author #255 Posted April 20, 2013 The barrel staves were machined to take the brass rings and plates The ratchet was milled using the same 30 tooth gear as a guide that was used to make the gear for the roller reefing, I just indexed it 2 teeth at a time to give 15 teeth on the ratchet. The section that is for the anchor chain was made with individual strips spaced around the maple formers, as I glued the last piece on I realized that I had missed the middle former and looking closely I also realized that I had made it a bit uneven so tomorrow I will cut some new discs and staves and redo that end. adding the middle one so that when it comes to adding the bolts there will be the three formers inside. I will soft solder the discs to the gear Michael garyshipwright, PeteB, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
captainbob Posted April 20, 2013 #257 Posted April 20, 2013 Michael, Do you do the drawings for all the small parts or are they provided with the plans? Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray
michael mott Posted April 20, 2013 Author #258 Posted April 20, 2013 John Thanks Bob, the plans are my own based on a single sheet from the original MAP plans. The only part of the original plan that I used were the station lines. here is a shot of where the plans are at the moment The first drawing is one that was done in Corel These drawings are from Autocad As I finish parts if I modify it I go back and modify the cad drawings, some parts get made then I do a drawing. The challenge on the next model will be to do the research then the drawings and then follow the drawings. This model it is really a hybrid of pilot cutters and fishing smacks, and is giving me the experience and confidence to work on the next one when this one is finished. Michael qwerty2008 and kees de mol 2 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
michael mott Posted April 21, 2013 Author #259 Posted April 21, 2013 The saga continues... The new sub-frame for the anchor side it is turned up from some maple broom handle. After gluing up I set up and drilled all the bolt holes these are .046 or 3/64th I also increased to shaft to 1/4 which is scale is 2 inches and added square ends for fast winding with a handle I still need to cut the square holes for the extra leverage handles. The posts needed to be set through the deck so the holes were drilled and swan then filed square Set in place not glued yet so that I can add the other parts of the winch supports. The added parts glued in place. Then about ten minutes after the glue had been applied I realized that the whole winch was too low for the chain to go under , I was so focused on clearing the under side of the bowsprit when it is retracted. after getting all that sorted I also noted that to clear the bowsprit I had already moved the winch a little further to the stern so the distance between the bowsprit posts and the winch barrel was longer that the pawl I had drawn for the ratchet (don't you just love dominoes) I decided to cross that bridge later. I snapped off the newly glued parts and raised the posts so that there was clearance under the staves for the chain. so then I had to re-drill the holes for the top bar of the bowsprit posts, this did not go as well as planned the 1/8 drill was not aligned properly and came out the second post off to the stern about 3/64ths. It took a while to sort out I used a scrap of oak and drilled a hole 5/16 in diameter. This guide block was clamped to the port post and I used a 5/16 end mill in the hand drill to start the new larger hole to encompass both 1/8th holes. I marked a datum across the oak and the posts so that I could re-clamp it to the starboard post. After both holes were drilled I used a 5/16 reamer to ensure that a 5/16 dowel would slide through smoothly. I still needed to shave about 1/16th off the bottom side of the bowsprit after that was done the bowsprit cleared the winch barrel as it was retracted. I made a compromise and formed a bracket that will be screwed to the deck with 4 screws to hold the hinged end of the pawl. I will sleep on this solution and see how it feel tomorrow. Michael garyshipwright, kees de mol, PeteB and 2 others 5 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
Jim Lad Posted April 21, 2013 #260 Posted April 21, 2013 It might be better on a post, Michael - that would also give another securing point up forward. John Quote
russ Posted April 21, 2013 #261 Posted April 21, 2013 Pawl posts were very common. I agree with John that a post set in front of the windlass might be a better solution. Russ Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB
Old Sea Dog Posted April 21, 2013 #262 Posted April 21, 2013 Very nice work. Quote Dave No problem can be solved from the level of consciousness that created it. Albert Einstein
michael mott Posted April 21, 2013 Author #263 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) John, Russ, thanks for your thoughts and suggestions, Dave thanks for looking in. I have attached a drawing showing the current position of the winch and the original drawing as I had thought it would work before the chain issue. winch alt.pdf The PDF is clearer than the JPEG My question relates to the end of the pawl I have circled it, in some of the photographs of winches that I can see, there seems to be a double bar one above the other, I do not see any springs or why this is so. I will certainly heed the advice and set up a post for the pawl, any better information would be greatly appreciated. Michael Edited April 21, 2013 by michael mott Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
captainbob Posted April 21, 2013 #264 Posted April 21, 2013 Ah, the joy of design as well as building. Figuring out how it all works and then drawing it is what I used to do for a living, now I do it for fun. I’m not sure about on board ship but on the farm when I was young; when pawls were doubled they were set at half cog steps so when one pawl held the other was riding half way down the next cog. One pawl was under the other and ready to catch the next cog and then when it dropped the pawl on top was at a half step. Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray
michael mott Posted April 21, 2013 Author #265 Posted April 21, 2013 Bob, Thanks for that information, it makes a lot of sense to me. So thinking about the post and the position of the ratchet, I rearranged the items on the shaft to shift the ratchet to the starboard side this gives me a lot more room for the post I also machined up a less complex channel to take the second pawl, everything is just held in place with double sided tape. If this looks like a reasonable set up I will cut the hole in the deck and make the post with the top so that it can be used as another "hitching post". What do you think? Michael kees de mol and garyshipwright 2 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
Jim Lad Posted April 21, 2013 #266 Posted April 21, 2013 Michael, Why not leave the pawl on the centreline and use a longer post so that the pawl drops down on the pawl wheel from above, which is the more usual arrangement? The post can also be quite close to the windlass with the pawl (or pawls) being quite short. John Quote
jo conrad Posted April 21, 2013 #267 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Hello, Michael,I´m not very sure, but wasn´t the top bar pulled out, when taking the boom in ?To me that looks like the most ergonomical way to go about that task : first slacken the fore stays, than pull the boom backwards. It would be quite easy to lift the boom inboard, because the better part of the boom is outside the stem pushing the aft end upwards. So you won´t have to worry about the clearance for the anchor chain under the winch barrel. GreetingsGermanus Edited April 21, 2013 by jo conrad Quote
michael mott Posted April 21, 2013 Author #268 Posted April 21, 2013 John are you suggesting something like this? Michael Laurence_B and garyshipwright 2 Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
michael mott Posted April 21, 2013 Author #269 Posted April 21, 2013 Germanus, Your comment makes sense, I have sorted out the chain clearance and the boom can retract without pulling out the top bar now. I do like the ratchet on the outside but putting it back on the centre line looks Ok too. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
Jim Lad Posted April 21, 2013 #270 Posted April 21, 2013 Yeah, Michael - that looks more 'conventional'! John Quote
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