Armed Virginia Sloop by GuntherMT - FINISHED - Model Shipways - scale 1:48

[BareHook]

Looking good, you'll probably find the second layer much easier to work with, the thin walnut is much easier to bend, just make sure it has dried out before bonding it. also when you sand the final veneer of walnut, be careful not to sand through it, its easy to do.

[lamarvalley]

You mentioned this being a 'practice' run it was a bit of a failure,… hmmm, I guess we have different meanings in mind. Personally, I think it looks pretty darn good Brian. Besides, dropped planks and stealers were 'invented' for a reason… as a fix!

[themadchemist]

Randy is correct, Dropped planks and stealers aren't just for the model ships, they were used in actual ship construction. I purposefully dropped a plank on my second planking at the bow, just for practice... and on the layer that showed. Even though I was OCD on the 1st planking to have all full strakes, again for the practice of it.

 

There is no right or wrong.... 10 years from now you will still be practicing and learning, such is the vastness of this hobby.  

[GuntherMT]

You guys are trying to make my head big. 

 

Thank you for the kind words and feedback.  I probably worded my 'failure' wrong.  What I was trying to say was that I had a goal in mind for the first planking that I failed to achieve, although I came reasonably close.  From the perspective of whether it's good enough to go on, certainly it's not a failure in that sense, as it's more then solid enough as a base for the next layer of planking, and practicing drop planks and stealers is probably a good thing. 

 

I actually like the appearance that well-done drop planks and stealers give a hull that's finished well, because as you say Keith, they are quite authentic, it's simply that I was trying to achieve this first layer without them.

[Perls]

Hi Brian,

 

I with the majority and think your doing a fine job. I've not even tackled planking yet and still find myself thinking about it while falling asleep. You have given me great encouragement and support so....right back atcha!! I'm enjoying your build and learning a lot (vicariously).

 

Best,

Steve

Edited October 24, 2014 by Perls

[RGL]

You just won a lottery with all those books and tools, I could just see my wife's eyes roll. Good job in the first layer, that's the worst part over.

[GuntherMT]

Thanks Steve, Lawrence, and Greg.

 

Your Hannah is also a fantastic build, sure would like to see her finished some day,                                                      ENJOY.

 

Regards   Lawrence 

 

I don't really consider the Hannah to be 'my' build, as I've done nothing but pick it up and drive it home!  No idea what will happen with it, but if I choose not to complete it, I'll try to find it a home with someone who will.

 

Today and yesterday I did not touch the AVS at all due to taking care of other things.  I do have a bit of update though, as I came home today to find I had an email from Jeff - my Holly and Boxwood planking has been milled and was shipped today.   

 

Sometime early to mid next week it should arrive, so my build will not have any sort of delay waiting on deck planking.  Jeff shipped quite a bit earlier than I expected.

[adivedog]

Good job on the planking.   Nothing to it

[Ol' Pine Tar]

Brian,

Just finished going through your AVS build log. She's coming along quite nicely! Also your build log is very informative, especially your explanations of how you've handled the adversities of the build. Nicely done!

Edited October 26, 2014 by PineTar

[GuntherMT]

Thanks John & Len.

 

So I have a question about the scuppers. Maybe it's just a design issue in the kit that everyone just builds with, but it seems to me that in order for the scuppers to do what they are designed to do, they would need to be at the deck level, not on top of the waterway which extends above the deck.

What am I missing here? I'm fine with building it the way the practicum and the plans show, by cutting them in the spirketing plank, as if I cut them in the waterway they would cut into the wales, but it just strikes me that this design would allow quite a lot of standing water on the deck (the depth between the scuppers and the top of the deck) that would be unable to drain out through the scuppers until the ship was heeled over.

The distance between the top of the deck, and the top of the waterway (and hence, the bottom of the scuppers) is 1/16", which in 1:48 scale means that the deck should be able to hold 3" of standing water under the scuppers. This seems.. wrong.

Any thoughts on this?

[russ]

The scuppers should be in the lower part of the of the waterway and angled downward as they go out the side of the hull. Maybe if you post a photograph of the problem area?

 

Russ

[GuntherMT]

Hi Russ,

 

There are no pictures, as I haven't actually done anything yet.  I'm reading ahead trying to formulate a plan for the next few steps, and it just seemed odd that the scuppers are above deck level both in the plans, and the instructions.  The scuppers are also pictured at the top of the waterway on the practicum for the AVS on The Model Boatyard site.  As I said, it's probably not a big deal to make it this way, and I probably will (as cutting into the waterways would be a royal pain to do at this point), but I was curious if this is a technical error in this kit and the plans or if I was missing something about how the scuppers were supposed to work.

[Blackie]

Hi Brian

 

Very nice work so far with the AVS build. With my Harvey Baltimore schooner I cut a few scuppers into the waterways and always meant to go back to do more. I never got around to it and proceeded on so probably too late now. On one of my other builds I have 17 scupper openings down each side. I see from your recent haul that you have Mondfeld's Historic Ship Models book so I suggest you look at pp138/139 which shows something about this topic. I am with you that the scuppers were cut into the waterways to eliminate the problem of the deck retaining water.

 

Blackie

[aliluke]

Hi Brian

I think you are right that the scuppers would be at deck level but it is a tiny detail in the context of things. The trick I reckon is not to try to take the scuppers all the way through the hull. Alignment is really, really hard. I've seen a few AVS's with over sized scuppers (to my eye) that go all the way through. I did my scuppers above the waterway and just blacked them out on the inside face. Did the same on the outside of the hull with an approximate alignment. On the outside they go through the black strake and it takes a keen eye even to see them but they are there.

 

Unless you've got brass balls (as we say here) cutting them all the way through can lead to a real mess and vastly over scaled scuppers. I certainly won't be trying it on HMS Fly.

[HIPEXEC]

Brian,

Thank you very much for the books!

[GuntherMT]

Thanks for the feedback on the scuppers everyone.  I'll think on it some more, and decide what I'm going to do with them when I get there I guess.

 

Rich - your mailbox here is full, I can't send you a PM, so I'll just post this here!

I forgot to mention at the meeting today, but there is a model show at Falcon Field in Chandler, in the Confederate Air Force hanger/museum next Saturday, November 1st.  I plan to attend.  The show runs from 10a-4p, and you have to pay the normal $12 admission fee for the CAF museum.  Entries are open (I think they cost a few bucks per entry) so if you wanted to enter a model you could, although all the categories are for plastic, so you'd probably have to enter in the 'all others' category.  I've considered entering the Carmen just for fun, although I know it would have no chance to win anything.

If you are interested let me know and I'll see if I can find the link to the website, which is eluding me right at the moment.

 

Shoot me a PM with your email address as well and I'll send it to you that way if you'd like.

[GuntherMT]

So putting off the scupper issue at least until tomorrow, today I filled and sanded.  And sanded, and filled.  And sanded. 

 

I am reasonably happy with the finish of the first layer, no big dips or swells, and only a few places where the filler is left to fill minor low spots.  So I went to place the first wale.

The kit provides some walnut strips for the wale, but the walnut provided in this size (1/16 x 3/16) is the most terrible wood.  All the other walnut in the kit is fine, but the 6 pieces of 1/16 x 3/16 is a completely different color (very light) from the other walnut, and it's terribly brittle and splinters badly.  I soaked a piece, and even with lots of water and heat, the edges would splinter terribly, and even after sanding it, I couldn't get the edges to clean up at all.

 

So, I dipped into the Reno wood, and since the color of the wale doesn't matter (since it's going to be black), I found some really nice 1/16 x 3/16 boxwood strips, and cut one of them to size.  The boxwood is actually harder to do the actual bend as it's a harder wood, but using water and heat, it does it just fine, but most importantly, it does it without any splintering at all, and maintains a beautiful surface.  So I sanded the piece of boxwood and shaped it. I then decided to try yet another experiment that I saw somewhere on the forums in the last couple of months, and made it black before placing it, by the simple expedient of using a black sharpie permanent marker.  It looks as good as the painted fashion pieces, was silly fast, and the black ink actually penetrates the wood.  After I get the black strake on later, I'll seal it with some clear matte acrylic.

 

So not much progress for pictures, as other than filling and sanding, all I did today was place the wale on the starboard side.

Edited October 26, 2014 by GuntherMT

[Mahuna]

Hi Brian

 

I'll be following along.  

 

As I mentioned yesterday, I used acrylic ink to stain a piece of wood to resemble ebony.  I did this before installing the wale, then used a felt-tip pen to touch up any areas that got scratched in the installation.  I used a hardwood called chimpkin, which didn't soak up the ink as much as a soft wood like basswood does.

 

Frank

[HIPEXEC]

Brian,

I'm going on a cruise and can't make it.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Hipexec

[GuntherMT]

Frank,

 

I thought about your ink system, as the results were fantastic, but I don't have the ink and rather than waiting I just decided to try the sharpie and see how it came out.  Worst case I would have wasted the plank, and I tried it on small test piece first, and thought it worked well.  I did use boxwood, not basswood for the wale strip - it does allow the ink to soak in a bit, but probably not nearly as much as basswood would.

 

Rich - enjoy your vacation!  You might want to edit your email out of the post so it's not out in the public like this.

[HIPEXEC]

Thanks for the edit tip.

[BareHook]

The only problem I find with using better wood is that it ruins me for building with kit supplied wood in the future and I feel the need to upgrade at least the finishing wood.

[GuntherMT]

Have had no time to work on the ship since I put on the starboard wale, but I did get a package left at my door today.

 

 

So pretty.  

[Grimber]

hehe makes you almost want to NOT use them.  "They look so good, maybe I should think of using them on this instead...?"

 

Same thought hit me today.  I just straight varnished the mahogany deck step ( just a tiny piece) but I like the look so much I'm really having second thoughts on putting the mahogany 2nd planking on my ship since I intend to use paint on the hull.  I'm seriously thinking to look if I can find more of that ramin planking to use instead if I can get some (or anything else )cheap.  Any suggestions where to look?

[GuntherMT]

Actually Grimber, it makes me want to get busy and get to the point where I can use them.  I'm looking forward to working with some of these planks for the decking.  Still a ways off though.

[aliluke]

Hey Brian

You are going to find these strips to be really good. I'm amazed by boxwood - strong, tight and finely grained. Holly is the same. You will enjoy! These timbers  both make walnut look like crap.

[GuntherMT]

Alistair - the strips are very nice, yes indeed.

 

Lawrence - the boxwood pictured just above is from Jeff at Hobbymill.  The boxwood that I used for the wales is from all the wood I picked up from the gentleman in Reno (a couple pages ago in my log) and I believe it was all sourced originally from The Lumberyard ( http://www.dlumberyard.com/).

 

The Lumberyard wood is not quite as finely finished as the Hobbymill wood, but is a much nicer finish and more consistent than the kit strips.

 

Neither the boxwood or holly from Hobbymill is exactly cheap, but it's not horribly expensive given the amounts needed for a kit like the AVS, when I am only using it for finish planking of the deck and misc. items like the wales or deck furniture.  I wouldn't use it for the first planking of a double planked hull when the kit basswood is more than decent for that.

[GuntherMT]

A little bit of progress.  Moving quite slowly at the moment between work and some car trouble I just haven't spent much time working on the ship.

 

I got the second wale on, and only after editing the pictures to post here did I see the gap I left at the stem.  Close up photo's are the harshest critic.  I used a batch resizer for this group of photo's, so hopefully they come out at least reasonably close to the previous photo's for quality.

 

Next is the spirketing plank, which includes the scuppers that were discussed here over the last week.  I've decided to just build them in per the plans and not worry about the water sloshing around on the deck for the non-existant tiny sailor-men.  Given the type of ship, chances are fairly high that if it was taking enough water over the bulwarks to need the scuppers, it would be heeled over pretty good and the water would drain over the waterway anyhow.

 

I started by fitting the wood to the top of the waterway, and getting it cut to size and sanded properly (rounded the inside edge, and put a slight bevel on the bulwark side for fitment, as well as getting the angle against the stem right).  I clamped it down with a whole bunch of clamps after soaking it, and then continued to use an eye-dropper to add water in the areas that had the most severe bend, and then left it overnight.  The next day while it was still in place, made marks in the center of each section where a scupper needed to go, and then removed the plank from the model and used a compass to mark the height of the scuppers, and marked 1/16" on either side of my center marks to define the basic location of each scupper.  I was pretty worried about trying to trim these little guys out with a razor knife, as they are really tiny and I am not that great with depth control when using a knife - I tend to overdo it.

 

Luckily, as I was playing with different tools I discovered that I had a small square file that was exactly 1/8" wide to the outside of the cutting edges.  Bam, solution!  I cut the basic rectangle to depth with the square file while the plank was clamped in a vise, and then used the smallest round file I have to shape the scuppers.

 

Pretty happy with how they came out.  Next of course, I had to get the thing back in place and glued.  I used regular PVA from a syringe to get the glue along the back and edges of the plank without getting any into the areas of the scuppers, and then clamped the crud out of it again and left it to dry.

 

After it dried, I removed the clamps, and it's pretty decent.  I would have liked to have it fit perfectly against the waterway, but there is a small gap there.  It snugs up against the bulwark extensions nicely though.

 

I am now doing the same thing for the other side.  I've got the plank cut to size, and it's currently soaked and clamped in place.  I'll keep it wet for a bit longer until I head to bed.

 

While I was waiting for things to dry (either water or glue) I also embarked on a bit of a planking experiment to try out two things:

1 - caulking with the method outlined in a thread by Nigel (found here: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/7445-plank-caulking-using-tissue-paper-tutorial-by-nigel-brook/) using tissue paper.

2 - Tree nails.

 

I made a huge mess with the tissue paper and glue, but the results were surprisingly good given my first try, and how much of a mess I made.  Note that as can be seen in the photo, I didn't measure anything for this experiment, so the butt's don't really line up very well.

 

Tree nails on the other hand, were a bit of a failure.  I drilled 0.024" holes, which are about 1.15" in scale, and then tried to draw bamboo to the correct size, and failed badly at the hole 3 sizes above what I needed to get them down to.  I don't know if the draw plate is bad, or if that's just the smallest I can get with the materials I have.  The draw plate is from the Reno trip and I have no idea of it's source - the size that failed is the size he was using for his final size on the Hannah model, so maybe it's just worn out?  I may get another plate (Byrns?) or try it with another material later. 

 

Since the actual tree nails failed, I fell back to the method that Alistair (I think) said he used, and tried my wood filler putty.  It worked, but I'm not happy with how well it fades into the holly deck.

 

I think I'll use larger holes than these, even though they are already slightly over scale, and then try to get real tree nails to work down to the size I need, or use a darker filler of some kind, or possibly go with the mono-filament line that's been mentioned by other builders here.  Either way, I do plan to tree nail the deck, and while I don't want them to be obnoxious, I do want them to be visible when looking at the deck from a couple feet.

 

Until next time, cheers! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grimber]

It's looking good.  

 

I don't know how you intend to finish your deck planking, but unless your after a specific look or coloring some finishes will fill the gaps for you.  Like stains and oils, thats how they work after all, they fill in the porous gaps.   might want to do a little test or 2 on the side with just the planking, empty treenail holes and finishes 

 

I did read on scuppers they also sometimes had 'gravity' doors.  like the front door mail letter slot flap door.  

Edited October 30, 2014 by Grimber

[aliluke]

Hi Brian

Getting those deck tree nails to disappear is the trick. Mine on the AVS were wood paste but, in hindsight were too prominent. My tree nails on Fly, so far, are better - you can't see them except at certain angles - and it is just simple old wood paste. On AVS I muddled around with bamboo and such but it was so hard and wood paste gave a much quicker and better outcome. For caulking I'm a fan of an HB pencil run along one edge of the plank.Very subtle but it works and I think is correct for scale. I used a charcoal pencil on the AVS but it made a big mess - still it worked out in the end. I never use any fillers on my decks - get it right and these are not required - no gaps! I know that you won't need any fillers.

 

That aside, your AVS is looking really good. Very sharp and clean. The waterways look spot on! You've nailed it!