The best copper plates?

[CharlieZardoz]

Hi all. Since my current model will require copper plates I am curious if there is a particular brand or company which is considered -er best or best quality maybe? These will be 1/64 scale were all copper plates relatively the same size or did it vary?

 

I did look around the site but didnt see anything regarding preffered brand.

[donrobinson]

Amati has nice 1:64 scale copper plates, used on Pegasus and/or Snake

[CharlieZardoz]

I'm looking at them now seems 1/64 plates for amati are 8 by 18 mm. There are also these Caldercraft ones at 5.5 by 18 which look nice however some I see have rivets all the way through while others only around the edges. What's up with that?

Edited December 28, 2016 by CharlieZardoz

[CharlieZardoz]

Then Caldercraft has these which are supposedly 1/72 but at 6.5 by 17mm so sort of the same size as the other ones? But edge detail looks more to scale.

[CharlieZardoz]

Ah and I see these photo etched ones for Amati that come in 5x17 mm and 6x19mm look very nice!

Edited December 29, 2016 by CharlieZardoz

[BANYAN]

Charlie, we used the Amati, which come in port and stbd sheets to allow the proper leading edge and overlap  for either side, on the club's build of HMCSS Victoria. They proved accurate for scale and were relatively easy to apply.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Landlocked123]

Hi Charlie,

 

The best coppering job I've ever seen was on Sal D's Syren which won 1st Place in last year's Northeast Joint Model Clubs show in New London, CT. He details how he did it on his build log on MSW (starting with post #126). I've attached the link below, I pretty sure Sal won't mind.

 

Best,

John

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/8410-us-brig-syren-by-sald-%E2%80%93-finished-316-scale/page-7

[CharlieZardoz]

Ah wow yes and scratch done as well. If I can work with these etched ones with the bolts already applied and they look correct then yeah thatll do however I may go this route as well. Would also like them weathered a bit so they look as they would in use. Was their a historical size for plates or did it vary?

[Landlocked123]

Hi Charlie,

 

I'm not sure, but I think Sal used 1/4" copper tape which is 6+ mm wide. Of course using this set up you can make them any length. Go to the Model Expo site and look at Chuck's instructions for the Syren. I believe that is what Sal did with the addition of the exacto blade.

 

J.

[Roger Pellett]

Copper sheathing was nailed on with flat headed sheathing tacks, not bolted. The large wart like bumps shown above appear to be way over scale. I con't know exactly how large the heads of a sheathing tack were but a 1/2in diameter head at your scale would only be 1/128in. A more realistic representation would be a row of tiny impressions.

 

Roger

[CharlieZardoz]

Honestly from what I'm looking through I feel the copper tape is the best and most realistic way to go. So I will do that

[RichardG]

Charlie,

 

I've been debating with myself as to adding copper plating to my 1/50th scale Dallas. It would be more accurate and partially cover the less than perfect hull planking. 

 

Copper tape seems the best way to go but the nailing pattern is difficult. The copper nails used were small and they were close together. The excavation of the 1812 American China Trader ship Rapid shows it had an average copper sheet of 1.21m x 0.35m. At 1/50 that would be 0.953" x 0.276", so 1in of 1/4in tape would be close. However the total number of tacks in a sheet is 124! The tack heads were 1 - 1.25 cm with average separation of 4cm (at the edges). At scale this would a 0.25mm head and 0.8mm separation. The tacks were flat headed so the dimple at scale would be very small.  

 

This is the nailing pattern

 

This is a picture of copper sheathing from the USS Constitution

 

(from https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2016/11/18/new-copper-sheathing-2/)

 

I think I'll try a make a stamp first. If that works, the tape is cheap and I can always take it off if it looks bad (or putting it on drives me nuts ).

 

Richard

 

P.s. the information on the Rapid can be found here: http://www.academia.edu/358814/The_Introduction_and_Use_of_Copper_Sheathing_-_A_History

 

 

[dafi]

All the ready made ones have far too big nails - some could be called rivets or even bolts ;-) - 

 

- and most of them are to thick too.

 

The best in my opinion so far is the self adhesive copper foil combined with some imprinted nails.

 

I used a small tool based on my wife´s derma roller - please do not tell her, she still is looking for it :-)

 

A german friend used the foil for a larger scale with a self made stamp, the kind o that is often described in the literature.

 

XXXDAn

 

 

 

 

                                          #1099                         

 

                                          #1114                         

Edited January 16, 2017 by dafi

[wefalck]

Following on from dafi's post, one should point out that most people (except dafi) put the identations on the wrong way around. These are not rivetted plates as you would see on an iron- or steel-ship, but (relatively) thin sheets of copper nailed onto a flexible bed of tarred felt. Hence, the nail-head are slightly sunk in as opposed to being proud of the surface. Therefore, all commercially available sheathing, whether embossed or etched is wrong - unless you apply the the embossed ones the other way around - no remedy for the etched ones.

While overlapping application would be technically correct, I am not so sure of the scale appearance, as even the thinnest (0.05 mm ?) copper sheet is still too thick for many scales.

 

Below is an image of the real thing on HMS GANNET (1878) that shows the identation from the nailing and that the overlap of the sheets is barely perceptible on the original:

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by wefalck

[Chuck]

What you are looking at here are photos of a contemporary model (Minerva).  A rare example of copper plates made for a model and its contemporary.  If I remember correctly these plates were put on the hull with actual small nails....thousands of them.   Wish I had better pictures but these are the best I have close up of the plates.

 

 

 

[dafi]

Interesting how the copper goes up the bow. Thank you for showing, I wasn´t aware of this model.

 

XXXDAn

[Chuck]

The hull is also NOT broken into two or three bands like some do.....this is also true of the Bellona model that shows contemporary plates on a model.  I believe that is a much later application and if you are building a 1770-1790ish model one belt like this is more appropriate.  The plates more or less follow the run of planking.......beautiful....insnt it?  I plan to plate Winchelsea.    I had a flood a few years ago that wrecked the planking.  After fixing it I am not real happy with it so the plating of the hull should fix that.   The alert was the first ship plated and it would be great to show this sister ship with plates.......I will be replicating the plates on this contemporary model as best I can.

[RichardG]

I think, given the scale, making separate plates or overlapping the strips is probably not required (as the picture from wefalck shows). An indentation to mark the plate's edge would be enough. Of course this has the added advantage of being easier.

 

As shown in the Bellona picture from Chuck, bands aren't required either. As for the thousands of nails in the Minerva model, impressive but no.

 

I'm still at a stage where I can turn the hull upside down, so I'm going to give it a go.

 

Richard.

[Chuck]

This was my feeble attempt on Syren.  these are individual stamped and overlapped plates.   

 

 

 

[Kishmul]

This is what I have used in the past- self-adhesive copper slug tape- (search on Google), making up a former for the nail indents.

[CharlieZardoz]

These are all beautiful models so nicely done. I think there is a joy that comes from trying different approaches and see what work best for you. For me I like the nail indentations and acknowledge that sometimes modeling small details may not be exactly to scale (like treenailing), some stuff gets exaggerated a bit in order to add pleasing detail to a model. I'm going to speak more with Dan (shipmodel) about all this process and see about things like should the plates overlap etc