Louie da fly

Well, imagine my surprise on visiting Scotland to find that our Queen is officially Elizabeth the First - because Elizabeth Tudor was never Queen of Scotland.

Quite the contrary - the main stuff is all good. Looks like it just needs a bit of tidying up to be a model to be proud of.

Looks like you're well on the way. Don't get too worried about mistakes - we all make them. And most of the time they can be remedied - wood is a very forgiving medium (don't ask me how I know!) Looks like one of the "specials" that they developed for Normandy, along with the floating tank and the flail tank for exploding mines - that's the Sherman/Grant/Sheridan tank that could fly upside down!

Glad you liked it. Are you sure that's the same James? He's described as James I "of Scotland" - my reading of that, unless the author got mixed up, is that he's referring to James I who reigned from 1406-1437 (thanks, Wikipedia!), given that he then goes on to describe the Great Michael as having been built in the reign of James IV. James VI who became James I of England on the death of Elizabeth Tudor, on the other hand - his character you've described admirably.

Not sarcasm, surely - that would be unworthy of you. I think irony "the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect" is a more accurate description. Regarding the planking - Yes I think steaming would be wrong - that way madness lies. On first inspection, perhaps you could loosely clamp the planking to each frame and gradually move the planking inward bit by bit. Starting with the planks nearest the keel - add a dab of slow-drying glue (white glue - PVA - for preference) between those planks and the frames. Clamp them loosely to the frames, not too tight when you first put them on, then as you would with the wheel nuts when you're putting a wheel back on the car - go round them again tightening each one a little until they're all a bit tighter, then do it again till they're all a little tighter - until the planks are all fully in contact with the frames (or as close as you can manage). Once the glue is fully dry, move the clamps outward - loosely clamp to the frames all the planks that are a bit further from the keel (adding a dab of glue first), going round and round the same way, tightening them all a little bit each time. And then move outward from the keel again, until all your planks are nice and tight to the frames. This would need adjustable clamps, of course - G-clamps or something similar. I can't guarantee this would work, but the planks look thin and flexible enough that you might have a good chance of success if you take it gradually and spread the load evenly by clamping to all the frames. The only alternative I can think of is to follow your skipper's advice - chucking it away and starting again. (I note that James H's last post is from 2018!) But it would be a shame to do so after all your work if there's any chance this model can be fixed. Worth a try? Have a think about it and see what you want to do. It's your build and your decision. And the very best of success with it! [Edit - As I'm sure you're aware, Matt H has successfully completed an Amati Drakkar just recently - but he didn't seem to have any issues of this sort. However, you might be able to get some help from him to see if he encountered the ame problem [/Edit]

On the other hand, it's about all we have to work with. Though some of the earlier representations (the pictures in your post above) are rather primitive, part of the problem is surely that they hadn't worked out a way to show perspective - thus the uncertainty whether the ship is a monoreme with both sides shown or a bireme. And as far as the later pottery is concerned, I'm prepared to believe it shows a pretty accurate rendition of what was actually used. And if we accept the details of the hull as being accurate, shouldn't we do the same for the thickness of the oars? (I'm not getting into whether their length is right - I don't feel qualified to comment). The other point I would raise is that though the oars on the trireme reconstruction Olympias were thick on the inboard side of the fulcrum, the rest of the oar was quite slender, and these oars have been tested in use and worked well. It's not proof that these are the kinds of oars used by the ancients, but I think it is worth taking into account. Apparently (and unfortunately I don't remember where I saw it)archaeologists have found lead counter-weights in the form of strips of metal formed into a ring to go around the oar handle to overcome the imbalance in handling oars (where most of the length and weight is on the seaward side of the fulcrum) .

A little bit of extra information that might be of use in this discussion. It's taken from the preamble of a 19th century reprint of the 16th century "Complaynte of Scotland" - needs to be taken with a pinch of salt but the direct quotes from contemporary stuff could be worthwhile.

Dunno. Portugal was neutral, though I doubt it was "business as usual".

Hi Brownbeard, The best place to look is here This has been assembled to give new people plenty of choice, of models that are relatively easy to build and have clear instructions. Have a look through and see what attracts you. And when it comes to starting a build log, have a look here: Have fun with it!

Hi Christos, Your question regarding the oars inspired me to put together a bunch of pictures from Ancient Greek sources (mostly pottery) at which has a lot of depictions of oars. As you can see, they are quite long and slender. Many of the pictures also show the oarblades clearly enough to understand their shape and size. I'm hoping this helps not only you, but also others who build models of Ancient Greek galleys. Very best wishes, Steven

That makes a lot of sense - I had my doubts right from the start about that. There's also the difficulty of fixing marble to wood - how would you do it? With glue? some kind of pin through a hole in the marble? It does leave the question - so what were the marble eyes used for? Those oars seem very thick and heavy. Are they the ones supplied with the kit?

AAAAAARRRGGGGHHHH! My heart skipped a beat as she keeled over. There's this horrible inevitability about it all. I'm so glad they raised her again. And what a beautiful ship. I'm just sorry I don't understand Portuguese. And in the final scene she is moored with the monument to Henry the Navigator in the background. Very appropriate.

Well, I wasn't satisfied with the shrouds, so I've re-done the blocks. The problem was that the block assembly took up too much room compared with the length of the shrouds themselves - like having a hammer with a huge head and too short a handle - no good (unless you're Thor, of course). Here is the "old" way and the new As you can see the "tails" below the single block and above the double block are considerably shorter, making the whole assembly maybe a centimetre (just under 1/2") shorter (about half a metre or 1'7" in full scale). As it turns out it didn't make as much difference to the overall look of the things as I'd expected - in the photo below the shrouds for the after mast have been changed and those on the foremast haven't - but I'm still glad I did it - I would have been unhappy with it if I hadn't. I've also finished the banner. Unfortunately because I'd put down a white undercoat I had to paint both sides and they didn't quite line up when I cut the banner out - so I ended up having to paint the overlapped bits to get rid of the white. A fair bit of work, but I'm pretty happy with it now. I've also finished the anchors, which have been sitting there incomplete for quite a while: I needed to add the rings and make a couple of extra stocks. These anchors are taken from those of the Serce Limani "glass wreck" which went down in about 1025 AD, pretty much contemporary with this dromon. And I've done a trial run on how I'm going to fix the shields to the pavesade - the railing that supports them. Byzantine shields were held by a pair of ropes attached to the back, called an ochanos. Here's mine - I had to use CA to get them to stick to the paint at the back of the shield. I drew the line at putting tiny metal rings on the back (and anyway, most contemporary pictures don't show them). I didn't quite get the ropes symmetrical about the centre, but I'm not too bothered - they won't be visible anyway. I'm just chuffed that I've found a way to attach the shield that would have worked in the real world - just untie the rope and you can pick up the shield. Then mounting the shield on the pavesade, with a bit of rope passing through the ochanos and tying it to the upright of the pavesade. And here's what it looks like from the outside. This is just a trial run, but it seems to have worked pretty well. Now I know what to do when I add them to the ship. I haven't quite finished changing the shroud blocks over. I expect to have that done by tomorrow. Then tidy-up - adding downhauls for the trusses that hold the yards to the masts, belaying the downhauls for the blocks and the downhaul for the fore halyard and making a coil for the free end - working out how and where to belay the tacks, adding the vangs - oh, it's all fun and games!

I've enjoyed following this build, Chris. And you've done a superb job on it.

I'm not sure I agree - I think this really is worthy of being in a museum! Looking forward to seeing the oars.

Beautiful work, Robert. I find it interesting that one of the flags included in the kit is that of the cinque ports https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinque_Ports - I know she's not based on a "real" ship, but it's nice that the kitmakers have added a little detail which gives some indication of her port of origin.

Very nice, Christos. That's a very elegant hull and the oφθαλμοί are very well shaped. It came as a surprise to me when I learned that these eyes weren't just painted on - they were separate items added to the hull - see https://www.petersommer.com/blog/archaeology-history/ships-eyes-bodrum and https://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/pdf-files/Nowak-MA2006.pdf

Welcome to MSW, Paul. If you did a plastic Bounty, no matter how long ago, you'll find that the skills you developed back then will still be there (if perhaps a little rusty) for your plastic Constitution. However you'll probably find (as I did) that encountering MSW changes your viewpoint of what is possible - and desirable - in your model. Yes, certainly start a build log. The instructions are here ; Have fun with it. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

No worries. Note also that the copper nails are almost invisible.

That's what I'd have thought. And there needs to be enough free end not only to grab hold of, but to stop the knot from pulling through and undoing itself. I've endeavoured to do it this way on my dromon, but I have to say it looks a little strange - possibly because I haven't seen any other models where it's been done. And the thread (cotton sewing thread) doesn't act like rope - it is considerably stiffer and has a mind of its own - sticks up or out when it's supposed to hang down.

Here are some images of coppered hulls after they've been in the sea for awhile (both from the Constitution). Note the first picture shows a new sheet of copper being added to older ones, so you can see the difference a bit of immersion makes. It might be good to paint the underwater hull to resemble these, after all that work you've done to make the "coppering".

Hi, I hope this is the right place to put this. It's occurred to me that it would be helpful to have a pinned thread in this sub-forum with links to the directions for new people on how to start a build log, both for kits and for scratch builds, and also for the advice on what are the best kits for beginners. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/24705-before-you-post-your-build-log-please-read-this-starting-and-naming-your-build-log/ https://modelshipworld.com/topic/8-before-you-post-your-build-log-please-read-this-starting-and-naming-your-scratch-build-log/ https://modelshipworld.com/topic/18657-new-to-ship-modelling-but-what-do-you-build-first/ These items are already available on the forum, but I think it would be good if it was immediately available to new people who (naturally enough) make "New Member Introductions" their first port of call, so they don't have to search for them.

Hi Broat, and welcome to MSW. Looks like you're well on the way with your Constitution, and the experience you already have should stand you in good stead. Working in wood is different from plastic - the biggest difference being in the hull - in plastic it's pre-made - usually you just have to glue the two halves together (I've made a fair few plastic models, and I found I had to change gears when I moved on to wood). On the other hand, it's by no means impossible, and the tutorials on planking (probably the most daunting part of it all) are very good and helpful, and reading the build logs I've found is also of great assistance. Timber is a lot more forgiving than plastic - if you mess up you can always just cut another piece and start again. I'd highly recommend you start a build log for your Constitution - it's a great way to get help and advice - and encouragement - from the members here. The instructions are here: If you've already taken photos of your progress up to now, you could include them as a "post-dated" log to bring things up to date. If not, just start from where you are. There are also a whole lot of sub-forums on the Home Page for your questions on all kinds of subjects - plans, building and planking a hull, fittings, masts and rigging . . . I've found everybody here to be very friendly and helpful, from the veriest newbie to the demigods of ship modelling (several of whom are members). And there is no such thing as a stupid question. And have fun with it! That's what it's all about, after all.

Wonderful work!

I'm up against a similar problem with my dromon. Fortunately I have a forecastle the hawse can be stored under, but the space there is limited, and I have to find room for a number of anchors stacked in a pile as well (Byzantine anchors were very light and they had to use multiples). I think just coiling the hawse on deck where you can find a space is probably not only the best, but probably also the historically correct answer.