Louie da fly

Nice crisp work, Gerry. This is a good looking build.

Druxey, that's from Hearts of Oak, not G & S. But I agree - no hope at all . . . By the way, I neglected to mention that according to 10th century Byzantine naval manuals (by Nikephoros Ouranos and Emperor Leo VI) the oarsmen doubled as marines, fighting the ship when it went into battle. They recommend that the bravest and strongest crew members serve on the upper bank of oars.

Beautiful work, Cri-Cri. This is a very interesting build to follow.

Hi Gerry. Good to see yor build log up and going. For planking I'd recommend you have agood look at the tutorials at https://modelshipworld.com/forum/98-planking-downloads-and-tutorials-and-videos/ And also see Chuck's HMS Winchelsea build. Start out with fairing the frames - so the edges of the frames aren't at right angles, they follow the curve of the hull - you can see that in the photo in his post of March 18, 2009 at And for the planking itself, see the sequence starting at August 28, 2019 at Your Occre model has two layers of planking - one to get the shape pretty much right, which can then be tweaked (with wood filler etc) to get all the curves smooth, and a second layer of planking over that to make it all perfect. That makes it a lot easier on the modeller. Small mistakes in the first layer aren't a major disaster, and by the time you get to the second layer you've had a lot of practice and are getting much more accomplished. Anyhow, enough of that. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all goes with your next steps.

Well, perhaps not a fine instrument, but an interesting one . . . Replica of a mediaeval Russian fiddle called a smyk or gudok, 11th century - I made it almost 30 years ago, when I was into mediaeval re-enactment. It's based on an archaeological find. No sound post, so it's very quiet. To someone used to a modern violin, it's absolute murder to play this thing.

Hi Gerry, and welcome. That's a very nice mandolin. I have a violin that belonged to my grandfather with a fiddleback grain on the back like yours. You've done a very nice job. Your bending iron is going to get a fair bit of work - as I recall, the Terror has a particularly blunt bow. Make sure you have a good close look at MSW's planking tutorials - they're invaluable and will help you avoid some of the commoner problems most people encounter with planking. And do start a build log. Nobody will bite, I can assure you. I know it can be a bit daunting putting your stuff up in front of people whose skills are, to put it mildly, amazing. I'm still gobsmacked by some of the builds up on MSW, and even now I feel I'll never approach their skill levels. But everybody was a newbie once, and there are plenty of beginners with build logs here. Your skills as a luthier probably put you in a better position than most people who are just starting out. And don't worry about making mistakes - you're bound to at some point, it's just part of the process, and even the most experienced still do it (though their mistakes are usually much more interesting than mine). But very few mistakes are fatal to the build and just about all of them can be remedied. The members are supportive and encouraging, and very willing to give help and advice. In fact a log is a very good place to ask questions as you progress with your build.

Looking forward to seeing your build log

Nice retrospective, Richard! She's looking good. That's a very attractive vessel, and you're certainly doing her justice. I like the idea of the dummy deck. I've never seen that done before, and I've made a mental note in case I want to try it myself in a future build.

Welcome, Richard! ([Bluebottle voice]Thinks: now I really need to have a look at that build log . . .[/Bluebottle voice])

Welcome to MSW, Matthias! I'm not sure - is your fishing boat a model or full sized? Whichever it is, it would be good to see photos!

Nice crisp work. From personal experience I know how hard these castles can be , so - kudos.

Not really - it is after all the Emperor's personal ship. And Byzantine oarsmen (and in fact all oarsmen until the Renaissance) - were free men not slaves (🎶For who are so free as the sons of the waves?🎶) - sorry; couldn't help myself. Oh, and I have a cunning plan which will mean that 8 of the oarbenches won't be manned. But that will involve more work, not less . . . That's all I'm going to say for the moment - I want to keep it as a surprise. But don't forget - you heard it here first!

Well, I said it's not a model unless you've bled on it . . . But this time I didn't cut myself with a scalpel blade while carving. Oh, no - I got much more inventive with self-harm. This time I was drilling a hole through the newly carved arm and into the shoulder so I could insert a pivot to join the two together. Unfortunately I drilled a little too far and into the finger that was behind the shoulder . . . Here's the figure with the first arm and pivot in place and here he is with the bloodstain, and the band-aided finger beside it. And finally, with his new arms, all painted and in place. The loose bits of cotton are for the oar-loops - photos further down the page. Here's the fourth oarsman with left arm partly carved and marked for reduction, then carved to that mark: Still more carving to be done to get it looking like an actual arm . . . but here he is with one arm carved to shape and glued in place - the other arm is temporarily positioned, ready for trimming to final shape. First oar-loop part done. Oar-loops around the first two oars (far left) And around the thole. And first, second and third oar-loops completed and trimmed off: I now have both arms of the most recent (unpainted) oarsman carved to shape and glued in place. Next I have to take him back off his seat, add filler where the arms meet the body and carve to final shape. Note in the first of the above three photos how much better this last oarsman's hands are than on the first guy I did (in blue), whose right hand not only has its fingers pointing the wrong way, but isn't even in contact with the oar handle. I might fix that later down the track, or just leave it as evidence of my improvement. I've also drilled the holes in all the upper oars, to take the little brass pins that will keep them in place on the gunwale, plus added cotton for the oarloops. You can only see a couple of the holes because most of the oars are turned the other way. However, after I did the first few oar-loops I decided to take the cotton back off again and glue it on each oar after it is in place - it works better that way.

By the way, you might be interested in this: - https://modelshipworld.com/topic/24868-topdrawings-uss-missouri/

EARLY SHIPS AND SEAFARING - European Water Transport Author: Professor Sean McGrail Year: 2014 Publisher: Sword and Pen Books Ltd, Barnsley UK ISBN: 978 1 78159 392 9 Pages: 183 pages plus index An interesting book which traces the evolution of vessels from the most primitive to the Middle Ages. It takes a particularly archaeological viewpoint, with an emphasis on construction techniques which though very interesting, is of limited use to the ship modeller (except those really into it - to whom I doff my hat) when what we want to know is what did they look like? What were their lines? How did the rig work? Where were the belaying points? (All right, maybe that's asking a bit much . . .) It covers maritime theory at some length - flotation, propulsion - a little offputting so early in the book, but worthy of careful study. The author deals with two separate regions - the Mediterranean, and Northern Europe - both in the descriptions of the vessels of the time and - very interestingly - the sailing conditions; coastal configuration, weather patterns, currents, prevailing winds etc - which affected both the design of the ships and how they operated - for example why the sailing routes in the Mediterranean tended to be among the islands and coast of the north - they would avoid North Africa because it was a lee shore and almost devoid of landmarks to locate one's position. Pictures are black and white, and one could wish for more of them. Though the book deals very comprehensively with Northern Europe from earliest times to the late 14th century, despite foreshadowing it in the Foreword it doesn't do the same for the Mediterranean. It stops short in Late Roman times and though it covers a few wrecks, misses opportunities it should have taken. Where are the Byzantine period ships? The book was published in 2014 but makes no mention at all of the exciting Byzantine finds from Yenikapi of 2006. Not even the Serce Limani "Glass Wreck" discovered in the 1970s. And no 14th century Mediterranean ships such as the Contarina wreck. It also gives very little attention to the pictorial record - it's very much an archaeological approach, as I mentioned above. I think in this it misses some good opportunities for theoretical reconstructions. All in all, a bit of a "curate's egg" - some parts of it are excellent. Worth a read and it certainly contained information I'm glad of. But it could have been so much better.

By the way, you might be interested in this: - https://modelshipworld.com/topic/24868-topdrawings-uss-missouri/

Damn! Why didn't I think of styrene? Very nice carvings, mate. I like your technique. I always start with the face for the reasons described on the previous page, but if this works for you (and it obviously does) go for it! And I've found as one gets more experience, the faces get better and better.

Looks very good.

Hmm, I can't see the picture. Doesn't work for me. [Edit] Now it does . . .[/Edit]

It looks like it's going 90 mph just sitting there!

Hi Zooker, It's a bit of a judgment call. If the rigging and spars are intact, you're probably best to leave them in place. However, anything damaged or messed up is likely to cause you trouble if you do a half-a*sed job of it - in that case it's probably better to strip the damaged stuff down to "square one" to give yourself a free hand with repair - but keep it, and everything that can be put back in place should be - once you've repaired what you need to. I've been restoring the model I made of the Henry Grace a Dieu back when I was a teenager. What I've had to do is far more drastic than what you're up against. I had to strip mine right down. But I kept everything I possibly could and put it back in place whenever possible. I only made new stuff when I absolutely had to, and that includes the rigging. As I said, it's a judgment call. I'd say remove as little as you absolutely have to, but don't hold back if it's really necessary. Trying to fix things on deck by reaching past broken spars and tangled rigging is giving yourself a much more difficult job than you need. This is only my own opinion, and I'd hate to send you off on the wrong track. Perhaps more experienced modellers can weigh in with their own advice. Best wishes with the restoration. Take your time, and put photos up as you go, so others can help with tips and advice. And do start a build log. Though I know you haven't actually taken your first step in restoration, this discussion is past the point where belongs in "New Member Introductions" - it should be in a build log, so others can see it and add helpful suggestions.

Interesting difference - certainly neither of them are correct with the shrouds passing outside the top. - it would go against all normal practice. Looking at contemporary art, the pictures of the Great Harry in the Anthony Roll and the Embarkation at Dover both show them terminating at the top as you'd expect, but the first doesn't show deadeyes even on the lower shrouds, and the second only shows the lower row of deadeyes for the main shrouds, not the lanyards or the upper row of deadeyes. As far as I can see neither of these are to be relied on, and that goes for almost all contemporary art - they just don't bother to show deadeyes at all.) One exception is a galleon from 1533 by Holbein, which shows them beautifully on the lower shrouds, but not on the topmast ones. What you do about it is another question - yes, it seems incorrect, but if that's the way the model was originally made, perhaps it's best to duplicate it, mistakes and all. I agree, but regarding the number of shrouds and deadeyes, perhaps it would be best to go with what you've got if you can't see any evidence that the other two were ever there. It might just be that one model was made with 5 shrouds per side and the other with 7. The MAAS model does seem a little more sophisticated than the one you have, and may have included more detail right from the start. One last thing - would it be possible to post some photos of the model as it was originally received? I know you have it in a thread in another section of MSW, but it would be good to have the original condition photos to compare with the restoration as it progresses.

Thanks, Zooker. The uprights seem to be relatively ok - it seems to be just the railing itself that is missing or damaged. It seems to have been just glued on top of the uprights, and could probably be replaced with a similar piece of wood, after you've cleaned any excess paint, glue etc from the uprights, and the dirt from the top of the middle rail. That's for that part of the ship. But I'd suggest a very systematic approach to the whole vessel. In my view you'd be best to keep everything you possibly can of the original model and only replace with new when you have to. Repair rather than replace. First, take LOTS of photos, from every conceivable angle, to record how everything is fixed to everything else in its current state. Where each rope goes, what it's fixed to and how etc etc, particularly where damage has occurred. Then, gently and systematically remove damaged parts, ropes etc, keeping track of what belongs where. Perhaps put the ropes, spars etc for each particular mast in its own box or envelope. Some ropes go between two masts - that's a matter for judgment - gently unfix it from one end and keep it attached to the other. Depending on the type of glue was used on the model you have various options to remove it - white glue (PVA) succumbs to rubbing alcohol (isopropyl alcohol or isopropanol), and I'm told CA (superglue) dissolves in nailpolish remover. Try it out on a relatively unseen part and see what results you get. Once all the damaged stuff is removed, what you have left is the hull and the parts that are in good condition, and you're free to start cleaning up. Apparently the best method of cleaning (which is what museum restorers use) is cotton buds (Q-tips) and saliva, replacing the buds as they get dirty. After everything's clean, you can start in on the repairs. What I wouldn't recommend is to (say) glue a broken mast together while it's still got all the ropes attached - at least not have ropes running from the broken mast to somewhere else. They'll impose uneven forces on the spar and it's almost certain to mend crooked. Work on relatively minor parts that aren't glaringly obvious firstly, so if you make a mistake it doesn't show too much. As you gain experience and confidence, move to the more major items. Oh, and often when a mistake occurs (and they will), it's possible to undo it and do over properly. Just take it methodically and don't hurry. One good repair is worth any number of rushed, half-done ones. Eventually it will start looking like a ship. And in the long run you'll have something you'll be proud to put in a display cabinet and show to your admiring friends. Good luck, and have fun with it!

That makes a lot of sense, Chuck. Without a sense of scale it does appear that the planks are short in comparison to their width, but apparently it's the other way around. (And with planks that wide there would be serious spiling problems if they were any longer.)

Oh, that's just magnificent! It just keeps getting better!