Cathead

Great start. As a geologist, I share your fascination with this ship, its voyages, and its most famous passenger. I was fortunate enough to visit the Chilean replica a few years ago and shared a series of photos on MSW as part of a larger thread on Chilean naval/nautical experiences. I can't vouch for the perfect accuracy of the replica, but the photos might still be useful as a guide or inspiration.

That is some fantastic work. That riveting method is brilliant and almost (but not quite) convinces me to revisit that on my current project. Will certainly try it next time I need some rivets. Just excellent stuff all around and great photos explaining your work. I know what you mean about spring weather and outdoor work before the heat sets in, I'm in the same situation.

We all learn as we get better at this challenging but fascinating hobby. One more thought, if you still have the sheets from which the laser-cut pieces were drawn, you could compare the original curves to better determine the balance of user- vs. kit-based error. But at this point it's moot, making a new stem is the way to go and you're right on target with making a test one before doing the final version! One other thought, I can't tell from the instructions, but does it want you to glue the stem/keel/sternpost on AFTER the second planking, or BEFORE? I ask, because on the real thing planking would be applied onto the completed frame (planking applied after stem, not before). For example, at the bow, the planks should butt up against the stem rather than going behind it. On your model, you can do it either way, and I'm not saying you should do it "the real way". I'm asking because the two methods have different advantages from a model-building perspective. Putting the stem/keel/sternpost on at the end helps hide errors at the ends of the planking (as it covers them up), but means you have to get the internal shape of those pieces very, very right to avoid awkward gaps between stem and hull. On the other hand, applying the stem/keel/sternpost over the first planking and then planking up to their edge (as in real life) means you have to be more careful about plank ends and edges, but the planking helps hide any gaps between stem and hull. I realize that's a lot of verbiage; can you envision what I'm describing? You mentioned taking more time to shape and lay each plank, which is definitely a good approach. Very sage advice I once saw and have tried to follow ever since stated that each plank should be treated as its own mini-project, not just as a step toward something else. That helps the builder focus on what needs to be done, and helps with a sense of accomplishment when each "project" is done right. Hang in there, planking is something many people find difficult but it's really rewarding when you realize you have a hull that's really starting to look like something. I'm looking forward to sticking with you, we only get a "first" project once in our lives!

Kev, thanks for that, it was quite interesting. Something to consider for a future build. Haven't had much time to work on this, but I did get another 10 shields done (bottom group, below).

Certainly a common problem on foreign kits like this is terrible instructions and sometimes terrible design. I agree those are not as helpful as they could be, although the basic premise seems clear. These pieces should just fit over the planked hull and be glued into place. By the way, the part you're having trouble with is the stem, not the keel. Sounds pedantic, but using accurate terminology helps make things clear. The idea certainly seems to be that the stem should just get glued onto the bow (the mention of "drilling" implies using a few pins to help hold it there, though that could also be poor translation). The mismatch between the bow's curve and the pre-cut stem is pretty wild. Your log starts with your hull already planked; do you have any photos of the earlier stages? Is it possible your planking somehow changed the shape of the bow to not fit the stem? Did you ever test-fit the stem with the internal framing of the model before planking? This is really hard to diagnose without more knowledge about the kit and build. I'm not assuming you're to blame, just discussing various possibilities. Poor kit design is also possible. I think your best bet, if you can, is to fashion a new stem. If you can get your hands on some wood of similar thickness, or possible use one or more pieces of scrap from around the pre-cut pieces, you can trace the original stem and draw a new inside curve to match your bow. It would be ok to do this in multiple pieces, allowing you to use smaller bits of scrap wood. If you make the joints well, it'll be barely noticeable. Keep your head up, problem-solving is part of the hobby and you learn a lot from early builds!

I should have clarified, spiling isn't something you can do with kit-supplied material. It involves cutting all-new planks out of wider sheets of wood. I mentioned it to make the point that planking with strips of consistent width inherently causes trouble because of the geometry and stress involved. Though most kits do it this way because it's so much easier for the manufacturer. It's not wrong, plenty of lovely models are planked using bent strips. Read up on planking in the tutorials and you'll get a better sense of how the two methods compare. As for the keel question, can you share an image of how the instructions handle this? Hard to advise further when I don't know what the kit maker intended.

Although I'm not familiar with this kit, it's pretty normal for hulls to rise toward the bow. Putting the double bend into planks is difficult, because wood doesn't like to bend that way. Many prototype (and model) builders "spile" planks instead, which means pre-cutting the plank to what looks like an awkward shape when flat but actually allows for the proper curve lying naturally along the hull. You can read more about this (and other planking methods) in MSW's various planking tutorials. Spiling doesn't help with a kit unless you replace all the planking, though. What you're doing is what I've done before, add some "vertical" bend off-model using a jig, then the "horizontal" bend on-model. It's really helpful to plan out how all the planking lines will run, and to start tapering planks toward the ends so they keep following a nice curve. Otherwise you'll likely suddenly end up with a really awkward joint as the hull starts to narrow. You may also find that sanding the upper/lower edges of the planks will help them fit better together edge-edge and make the planking look nicer. Keep working at it, as you said, practice is how you get there! You don't want to see my first planking!

I'm learning so much from this. I bookmarked the post on your special stopper knot. Thanks!

That's fantastic, Roger! We, too, have some models handed down, but in this case they're decades-old tourist models from my grandmother-in-law's world travels as a wealthy widow. The kind of thing people sign up on MSW to ask what they're worth. Not nearly as meaningful, but still cool in their own goofy way. They're barely "models", but they'll have a long lifetime simply because there isn't much to them. Lesson: If you want your model to last 100 years, build a barge, not a square-rigger!

This is so true, and so well stated. It can be a challenge, I keep getting yanked in different directions by all the projects I want to do, but that's a good challenge to have. This is a lovely build that will look great displayed wherever you choose. Great job and thanks for sharing.

I'll say! It's already lost 1/6 of its letters! Carry on.

Are you talking about the extra material between bulkheads near the keel, fore and aft? The remaining surface likely will help with plank adherence, even if it feels like a waste. Also, slow gentle pressure is definitely another key to bending planks!

It appears to be what the Skuldelev 2 reproduction did. Makes more sense to me than a hole through the keel, even though that's what I did in blindly following kit instructions.

Are you soaking in cold water? Hot water can be more effective at helping planks take a bend, as heat is what really loosens the fibers. Some folks use planking irons to add additional heat, even without water, but if you don't have one hot water would likely help at a minimum. Keep at it!

You're a far better carver than I am!

Use the NRG website. Go to thenrg.org and log in, then go to Account > View Profile. It will list the date you joined and your current renewal date. If you don't think you have an online account, go to https://thenrg.org/about/contact and write the Office Manager at the email listed there. Mary is great and will help you out. If you forget how to get to the NRG website, use Google or follow the link in the top banner of every page on MSW.

Nice start! Your opening line was a bit vague, I assume you mean this is an actual OcCre kit and you built a Chinese kit before this?

My apologies, when I commented this was a separate thread and I did not realize it was a continuation of another thread (which has now been combined, making my comment look bizarre). Please disregard. I still look forward to following your future work!

Looks like a beautiful start! And that's a very nice workshop. If I may make a suggestion, please consider renaming this to follow MSW's naming conventions for build logs (see this link). It will help people find and recognize the work you're doing. You can do this by clicking the three little dots at the upper right of your initial post, then selecting Edit. That will give you an option to change the title of the thread.

No, I don't like using fixatives as they always seem to change the character of the surface and I like the raw wood. These won't be handled much so I don't think they need any further permanence. As for sails, I just responded on your log, giving away part of my surprise but sharing some links I've collected in my research on the subject.

Yep, I went through the same learning process and same conclusion. One of your photos shows the top of the beitass on the Skuldelev 2 reproduction (prototype for my longboat). Here's how it looks on my model based on following the instructions. This was a dubious decision but I couldn't find a photo of the block on the reproduction, so had little choice. And it seems to match that shown on other vessels, as you show above. Somewhere I read a possibly apocryphal account of a beitass coming loose and knocking a chieftain overboard to his death. Seems believable, that much stress on a loose pole.

I've been contemplating sails as well. No one really knows just how Viking sails were put together, but here are a couple articles I've found interesting. This one suggests that the diagonal striping was made of walrus hide, as a stiffener: http://www.amscan.org/app/uploads/2016/11/SR_Autumn16_Viking_Ships_article.pdf This one has a good background to Viking-era textile production and mentions a rare example of sailcloth being found: https://www.hakaimagazine.com/features/no-wool-no-vikings/ And Steven shared these two with me that talk about stitching and clothing making: https://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/viktunic.html https://bjornthisway.wordpress.com/2019/11/05/needlework-in-the-viking-age/ My current plan is to make the sails out of paper, following a method I laid out here: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/15584-a-method-for-making-panelled-sails-using-paper/?tab=comments#comment-484457 Hope that gives you a start, I'm sure Steven will weigh in with more.

Made some nice progress on the shields over a few weekday evenings. To further consider different designs, I cut apart the single sheet of six designs into individual units (like paint sample swaths) so I could shuffle them and see how different combinations looked. For example, here are two sets where each row of three is fully complementary (each shield has a fully different combination of colors between background, swirl outline, and swirl center). Between the two rows, something always stays the same (e.g., two black swirls). I started with my favorite pattern and made ten as a test batch. Here's a sequence showing how I went from raw laser-cut shield disc to fully colored shield: From right to left: Raw shield Shield with planks scribed on using a shard-edged file Plank joints darkened with a pencil Swirl traced around a tool of the right diameter Swirl darkened in with black pencil Swirl border drawn in with red pencil Background filled in with yellow pencil After this, I blackened the tiny metal parts for the shield bosses and attached them using trace amounts of CA, weathered the back sides using grey pastel, and attached basic handles. The final touch was using brown pencil to gently color the rim on both surfaces and around the edge, hinting at leather binding used on the real thing (may not be visible in images, but definitely is in person). The image below shows ten shields of the first design (two showing their backs) and current progress through seven of the second design (Mrs. Cathead's favorite). These are ending up pretty dark, as handling them inevitable smudges a bit of color and the pencils aren't as vibrant as paint. But I kind of like this deeply weathered look, it matches the model well. I think they'll look really nice in a full set. They're also not that hard to do once I worked out the production sequence. I'm very happy with this approach, both because I think it looks good, and also because it means I can use the kit's shield discs. I had initially intended to make my own shields out of strip wood, thinking that would be more realistic, but this is so much less work for a result that is probably easily as good as I'd have struggled to cut clean circles and unevenness would have been pretty noticeable. I'll keep plugging away at shields. I'm also starting to think about sail-making and have had a good conversation with Steven (Louie) about this over PM. I have a fun idea for making this a bit unique as well. EDIT: Meant to say that I do think the plank seams show up more strongly than they would on the real thing, but I like that effect here because it emphasizes how these were really made. It might be more accurate to have these be much finer (or covered with a leather facing), but given that part of a model's role is to capture the "feel" of the real thing, I like how the strong seams emphasize the nature of shield construction. For the average viewer, this is more interesting and informative while not being "wrong". Sort of the same reasoning why I think it can be ok to have sail stitching be a bit more visible than in real life, depending on the intended purpose of the model. I like the idea of average/uninformed viewers to realize "oh, those shields are planks" or "oh, those sails are stitched panels" by looking at the model rather than having to be experts about it. I guess this is the teacher in me, but I want my models to inspire interest, not just be perfectly accurate to an expert.

Having little experience with either wood, I can't answer that directly, but a related question is whether you plan to paint the hull to match the real vessel or to display it as raw wood? If the former, the choice of wood won't matter nearly as much and you can supplement something else with little difficulty. As for your concern about filler use, it's part of the natural learning curve. It's pretty normal to need filler on your first planking attempt. Time and practice will help you develop the skills that allow for planking with minimal filler. However, this could be another reason to consider painting the hull rather than leaving it as raw wood, if you're not sure about being able to do the second planking with more than minimal filler (which will likely show up more strongly on a natural-wood hull).

Welcome to MSW, we're glad you found us. I suggest you read this post, pinned at the top of the New Member Introductions section, which directly addresses questions of this sort. In short, Roger is correct, its only value is whatever personal connection you feel to it (which is not a dismissal, that can be quite powerful). If you wanted, you could read up on some the tutorials here and put some time into upgrading the model. There are simple things that could improve its condition and appearance, such as revising the rigging. This could help it feel more "yours" without a lot of investment.