Roger Pellett

Ed,

I experimented with spinning these on a lathe using a male die and pressure from the tailstock. It formed a nice flare on the tube.

Roger

there have been several books written about HMS Trincomalee. A used copy of one titles Trincomalee, Nelson's Last Frigate is available on Amazon for about $18; The title is of course a misnomer as Nelson died 12 years before this vessel was built. I don't own this book but those who do give it four stars. I a.gree with Charlie- build her from scratch.

Roger

Thanks, Rob. It's an interesting design.

Roger

I have never seen the two diameter mast design before. Is the smaller diameter mast instead of a fidded topmost?

Roger

Mike,

I looked at Chapelle's History of the American Sailing Navy and History of American Sailing Ships as well as Coffins of the Brave to see what I could find. The US Navy did build several two masted lateen rigged "row galleys" in the very late 1700's and early 1800's. Some of these fought in the war of 1812, on the Chesapeake and on Lake Champaign. Gunboats also fought on Lake Ponchatrain but I don't know which design. As noted above the galley Allen was excavated on Lake Champlain and another on the Chesapeake near Badensberg, MD. An archeology report for the MD gunboat is available on the Internet.

I could find no design (Chapelle) or archeology report that represents the model that you are building. The long head and protruding stern platform are anachronisms. The American gunboats were double ended.

It would appear that the kit manufacturer either copied a Mediterranean design or imagined one and called it an American gunboat for marketing purposes.

Roger

Bob, I used the microwav to bend a piece of 1/8 x 2/16in pear the other day. It worked fine. I also have a wooden steam box powered by a "Wagner Power (wallpaper) Steamer) that I built for steaming canoe ribs and planking but it is a hassle to set it up for a little model part.

By the way, if you can build a model like YA the way you are doing it, you don't need to lie about your golf game!

Roger

Bob, Rather than messing with a steam box get a plastic or glass pan of water, soak your wood in it and then nuke it, wood, pan, and water in your microwave. Cook it long enough to full boil for several minutes. Works great!

Roger

They're like any other tool. It depend what you are doing and what tools and methods you "like." If you buy plans of the same scale of the model and if you are convinced that the plans are accurate, then you will not need them.

If you redraw plans from archival materials then they might be useful, although more accurate methods exist such as using a pair of regular dividers to determine a measurement on the drawing's graphic scale, then using an architect's scale to plot the dimension on the new drawing or part. This system is preferable because drawing distortion is often not uniform. If you are redrawing a drawing without a graphic scale then proportional dividers are more useful.

Roger

No, I don't have a build log. I began the model before I joined the forum and at the moment the model looks pretty rough. I will try to post some material.

Many years ago, the company that I worked for was working on a joint bid with a Spanish company to supply piping assemblies for a power plant in Spain. The drawings were of course easy to understand but the specifications which of course we're in Spanish were not. We hired a translator from a local College to provide a translation but his results were unintelligible because he did not understand the engineering terms. I eventually found out that I could figure out what was going on by relating Spanish terms to the technology that I understood. For example it is easy to make the connection between "vapour" and "steam". I suspect that the same would be true for Ancre's books only available in French. Fortunately, my book is available in English and I was greeted this morning with an email asking which version that I wanted.

Roger

Thanks Guys!

The book that I am going to order is "The Ship's Longboat 16980- 1790. For a number of years I have been interested in building series models built to the same scale (1:32)'of warship's boats from different periods. I am well on my way to completing the third boat in the series, a Royal Navy Longboat based on a drawing published in May's warship boat book. Detailed information is hard to find so I was excited to find that Ancre has published this new book.

Roger

I am interested in purchasing a book published by Ancre Publications. The recently published book does not appear to be available from any of my usual US sources (Amazon, Alibris, etc.). I realize that Ancre is a reputable company but I have no experience with buying books from foreign sources and from them in particular.

Can anyone who has purchased books from them offer me any advice? Do they have a US dealer that either stocks their books or who can order from them?

Roger

After posting. I looked up the WEN drill press- kinda like reading the instructions after assembling the gadget! Anyhow the WEN drill press is the kind of tool that I am talking about. If I were buying though, I would like to be able to see what I am buying first. Two concerns : first shaft runout is mentioned. What kind of bearings does the tool have? You want one with ball bearings. Second, what is the smallest drill that the chuck will close on. I would like to think that in the past 50 years you can now buy a 1/2 inch chuck that will close to zero. It would also be nice to find one with a chuck that fits a standard US Morse taper but at this price this is probably asking too much.

Roger

50 years ago, I bought a bench top drill press. It is a ruggedly built tool made from machined cast iron. I believe that it cost somewhere between 250 and 300 US. As a recently married young man just beginning an engineering career buying it was a big deal. I still use it on a daily basis. It has drilled holes for wood canvas canoe restoration, sailboat repair, gunsmithing, household repairs, and model ship building. With the Jacobs Chuck replaced.by a locked on collet chuck it will accept router bits. It has a foolproof belt drive with stepped pulleys. It is not a Delta or other well known brand, but it is a workhorse.

It's only limitation is that the chuck will not close on drill bits smaller than 3/32 in. This limitation is easily overcome by chucking small bits in an inexpensive machinist's pin vice and then chucking the pin vice in the Jacobs Chuck. Otherwise the tool is far more versitle than the Dremel products.

If I needed to replace it I would buy the same sort of tool today, except I would probably pay less. Big box home improvement stores sell similar drill presses today for less than I paid 50 years ago. Check them out.

Roger

I suggest that you look into information available from nautical archeology. First, there is the "Ronson Ship." This is an early 18th century merchant ship, probably built in Charlestown South Carolina in 1717. It was discovered in New York City during construction of an office buildIng. Texas A& M press has published a book about the ship. The book is called "The Ship That Held Up Wall Street." This is an overview of the excavation but does include a sketch of the framing system- single floors, double futtocks. A more specialized book focusing on the ship structure is supposedly in the works.

Another book that you might find worthwhile it Wooden Ships and rhe Interpretation of Shipwrecks also Texas A & M press. This includes some information about the Ronson Ship including a photo of a model of her salvaged bow framing. These is also some information about one of the transports scuttled off Youktown, VA in 1781.

There may also be papers available on the internet about these two vessels.

Roger

Sarah,

Some time ago there was a discussion of this topic. If you look up "where do models go" on the search function you will find it under General Nautical Discussion.

You will find a post from me suggesting that models be donated to fund raising events in support of organizations that offer youth sailing programs. Of particular interest are "Community Sailing Programs." These programs typically offer,low cost sailing lessons and boat use to everyone. Here in Duluth ours began as part of our city's Parks and Recreation Department. At least this way your dad's models will wind up in the hands of someone with a sailing interest. You live close to a hotbed of sailing so you should be able to find an organization.

Yes! By all means, post some pictures. We would all like to have a chance to appreciate your dad's work.

Roger

Beautiful work!

Roger

Don't forget that ships do not necessarily sail at their designed water lines. Warships may leave port deeply laden but during their cruise they use up provisions, possibly ammunition, and their fresh water supply is constantly changing. Trim also changes as stores and ammunition are moved about and the Captain may decide to shift armament about, to change the rake of the masts or to deliberately change trim by shifting ballast.

Merchant vessels may carry cargos of different densities- such as coal outbound and grain home. Whaling ships would change trim as knocked down barrels were assembled and filled with oil.

It is therefore reasonable to assume that different areas of the copper sheathing would look quite different, with the belt above water the typical green verdigris and that submerged brown. The action of water at the bow would differ from that at the stern, affecting the finish of the copper differently but I don't know how.

I agree with Frankie that a too literal reproduction of details such as nails does not look realistic. A more impressionistic treatment looks better.

A number of years ago builder Rob Napier publishedd an article in then NRJ regarding the colors on the yacht Northern Light. He used paint ovrer the copper sheathing at the waterline to give it a weathered look. I believe that it is number 36. Look it up on their web site.

Roger

I started to receive maritime history books as gifts soon after learning to read and have buying them since I was a young adult. As soon as I bought my first house I set up a small shop in my garage and began to outfit it with tools as projects required. My first table saw was one of the "simple power tools" that used to be advertised in Popular Mechanics for about,$35. Fitted with the right blade it did a great job sawing planking from rough stock. A few years ago I bought a used Delta 10in contractor's saw for $150 from a canoe builder that lives nearby and he threw in a trailer to haul it home. I have a set of Stanley bench chisels that I inherited from my father. They hold a good edge.

The point of all this rambling is that I consider a good library and good selection of tools to be the key to good modeling. I find many old, used tools to be much more to my liking than the modern "hi tech" lightweight ones, and some old used hand tools are high quality. As jbshan pointed the Internet is a great place to find reasonably priced used books and quality reprints of old works.

With these resources you don't need kits.

Roger

Frankie, Your comments are spot on. Allowing the main sheet to slide back and forth in the arrangement shown on the models is impossible. The main sheet horse must be above the tiller. The longboat model that I am building is based on the Admiralty drawing of a rigged longboat reproduced in May's Boats oh Men of War. Close examination of this drawing shows that the horse extended above rhe tiller.

Having just about finished the hull, I am impressed,with the size of these boats. My 32ft longboat looks massive- it's cubic dimensions (tonnage) produce a vessel larger than the 34ft sailboat that I used to crew on here in Duluth. The large full cut mainsail used would transmit large forces to the hull via the main sheet that would completely take charge of the tiller when tacking with the arrangement shown.

I believe that the rigging of the present kit model was based on the rigged "Medway" longboat in the NMM. I just bought a new book discussing the models built by the late English modeler Norman Ough. An appendix to the book briefly discusses restoration work done by him for the NMM. Apparently there is evidence that he restored the rigging of this model. Another example is the longboat model in the,Kregstein Collection. Again, the rigging is not original, the Kregsteins say that they commissioned a model builder to add it using parts received with the model. They also say that in rigging the model they made no irreversal changes. The main sheet horse, passes below the tiller.

The issue therefore remains a mystery.

Roger

Wonderful!

Roger

Harold Hahn built his models with an 8in table saw, hollow ground Sears blades, a Unimat lathe, and his drawings were hand drawn. Today, using his drawings that include lofted frame shapes, one could build an accurate model without buying an expensive kit. A step up would be to order original drawings from a museum source and do your own lofting. Ships have been lofted by hand for 100's of years. CAD, laser cutting equipment etc is not necessary. Based in the talent shown on this forum used to build model kits, I am amazed modelers shell out big bucks to purchase model kits.

Roger

The name Mahogany, at least here in the US, is used for several different tropical hardwoods. Some if the stuff is pretty poor, stringy and course grained. I believe that the real stuff is Honduras Mahogany, very difficult to find today. Mahogany salvaged from old furniture is therefore like gold.

Roger

Kieth, A great project beautifully executed! Your deck structures are particularly impressive. For many years I have been thinking of building a 1:32 scale model of a Royal Navy Steam Pinnace. The bright finished cabin aft presents a particular challenge but your deck structures are an inspiration. I have several chunks of Mahogany salvaged from an old chair. It is at least 75 years old, tight grain and deep colored that I have been thinking of using for this purpose despite model building book advice that Mahogany is not a good choice. Your work proves the exception to the rule.

Roger

Charlie: Deck Finish. Several possibilities come to mind. The most obvious is Testor's Dullcoat, available at hobby shops and big box craft stores. This stuff comes in a spray can and is foolproof. You might also look into hardware store spray can clear finishes even though they may be branded as enamels, they behave and smell like lacquers. Further afield, on his USS Essex CA-9 post, daddyrabbit is discussing use of a sprayable floor finish. We recently had a maple floor installed in our family room. It was finished with a matt finish floor finish. I believe that this is a water based polyurethane. It is perfectly transparent. I think that this would be similar to the material that daddyrabbit is talking about.

Roger

I have never used Minwax Poly and have never used any wipe on finish so I can't comment. As discussed elsewhere, an advantage of a true laquer is that it dissolves itself. That is a second coat actually dissolves the coat beneath. Varnishes, either polyurethane and alkyd resins cure and become chemically resistant to the next coat. These very different characteristics are either a good or bad thing depending on what you wish to accomplish. If you are trying to repair a minor Boo Boo, an over spray with laquer will blend in to the previous coat. On the other hand, when using laquer based paints, you do not want adjacent colors to react with each other.

See Julie Mo's build log for the J Boat Ebdeavour for a discussion of laquer.

My model was unrigged and built from three naturally finished woods- pear, box, and holly. When I finished building it, I hung it from a hook and sprayed it all over with clear flat laquer. It has just passed 1/3 of its 100 year lifetime and is holding up well.

Roger