Morgan

Zach, John McKay sells large scale copies of the drawings for Pandora (and all his ships in the Anatomy of the Ship series), he offers them at various scales and if you contact him he will provide a drawing / pricing list and shipping cost. As Richard suggests I'd buy the book first this will help with deciding which drawings you want. His email address is in the public domain so no breach of confidence in telling you it is johnwmckay@telus.net. His response is first class, I ordered a set of 1:64 Victory plans last year and had them in a week (Canada to U.K.). Gary

Steve, also so take a look at the book 'The Wooden World' - 'An Anatomy of the Georgian Navy' by N.A.M. Rodger which is look at the eighteenth century navy, how it worked , and how it fitted in within society. Gary

William James had his own axe to grind having been caught and detained in the conflict of 1812, he set out to prove that no British ship had been captured by an American ship of similar force, as the extract provided by Frolic labours. James's stated intent was to provide an impartial view, based on the facts he could uncover, however given the objective of his work in recounting the 1812 conflict this in itself renders his impartiality suspect and his bias creeps in to his works. Given the prize money associated with rewarding successful captures many captains, of all nations, had a tendency to over-state the size, prowesss and head-count of the prize as this added to their personal glory and rewards. As Mark says war isn't fair, and neither are the Press who picked up on and propagated the exaggeration of the size of the Guerriere and other captures which is what initially motivated James whilst detained in the US. Nice to see in 200 years at least the Press have remained consistent (on both sides of the pond).

Craig, Count me in to watch this one . The book King George V Class Battleships by Roger Chesneau is a must have is a must have for the DoY. At page 55 he describes the March 1943 refit colour scheme as being dark grey hull and horizontal surfaces and light grey superstructure, the colours are uncertain but were probably AP507A and 507C, and it appears that the dark grey paint was also applied to the weather decks, although the wooden plank in forward of the foremost breakwater seems to have been left in natural wood. I also have DoY on the stocks and this is one of the best books by far describing her details. Gary

Living in the town as well I echo David's comments. Hartlepool may seem a bit of a backwater, but the Trincomalee and what is now the Royal Navy Museum of the North is well worth a visit - it is now run by the same museum group as Portsmouth Historic Dockyard and HMS Victory, so hopefully we will see deeper connections over the coming years and a greater exchange of exhibits as part of the maritime experience. In terms of the Trincomalee Chris Watton was considering a Leda kit, so fingers crossed, given there were 46 in the class that opens a lot of options. Too late for me I'm scratching a POB Trincomalee (I'll have to start a build log). I had the drawings for the Leda class a few years ago when visiting the Unicorn, they were £5.00 per sheet then, considerably less than the NMM, so worth enquiring if you visit Trincomalee's sister. Gary

Hi Chris, Looks like the Bismarck or Tirpitz, if you google you will find images. Gary

Hi Daniel, Every time I look at the Turner prints I see something new as well, and agree this is a debate worth continuing with. I've also overlain prints from SLR0513 over John McKay's drawings and agree there are major differences (as well as the similarities to the Turner prints), I think it may be intended to be the Victory, but was hypothetical, and very much intended to portray a concept for re-fit and is not based on the original framing plans as the gun port disposition is all wrong. One difficulty is putting out of our minds HMS Victory as we see her today and assuming she is anything like she was at Trafalgar, the battle altered her, the post battle repairs altered her, the Seppings style refit altered her bow lines, the Victorians butchered her appearance all the more, and the early 20th century reconstruction to me seems very stylised taking her back to a time before her pre-Trafalgar refit. Hope fully more contemporary sources can be uncovered, just got to keep on looking and debating Gary

Dafi, Nicely done, this mirrors what Turner witnessed firsthand. There is one more Turner sketch of note 'The Victory: From Poop to Quaterdeck, this shows that the Forecastle at the Beakhead Bulkhead was also built up, please see image below, you can see the bulkhead gunport on the right quite clearly.. Sorry to spring this when you have gone to such trouble but I know you are striving for the most accurate interpretation. Although I've reviewed the sketches previously on this forum, I missed this one, but picked it up in the Trafalgar Chronicle: Number 26 published in November this year. One of the articles by John Conover reviews the Turner Sketches and picks up on the Beakhead Bulkhead barricade, it also draws strong parallels between the 1803 model in the National Maritime Museum (model SLR0513), including a potential different configuration of the stem works (Victory as is now being a 20th Century re-interpretation). It postulates that the 1803 model was a projected re-fit which was never fully completed, but has strong correlations to the Turner sketches. I believe that John Conover may have published a similar article on the full NRG forum, perhaps someone who has access could check. Well worth a read. Gary

Kurt, If you look at the website for the Royal Armouries here in the U.K. you can search the collections by date and type (artillery), they have one of the best collections, look for the 16/17th century, you will get a good idea of what you are seeking and can use these as a comparison for commercially available offerings. Regards Gary

That's great news Daniel, it can only be good for promoting ship modelling, support for conservation of historic ships, and an excellent marketing approach. Well done. Gary

The pin provides a fixed point from which to off-set the freehand feed if I'm reading this right. I like the idea and will be giving it a go! Thanks for the tip Marsalv. Gary

There has been a lot of debate on this forum of recent regarding the practicalities of developing kits and consequent costs, sufficient to say you take your choices based on affordability for each member and what you want out of it. I for one see this Victory as a premium level once in a lifetime kit, and accept it may well be the most expensive kit in the market, but also accept it will be a compromise between cost and quality, given that I will purchase a kit but fully expect to pay more to enhance the kit. Each to their own, let's just welcome and applaud the opportunity and aspiration it offers. I'll get off my high horse now, I feel a touch of vertigo coming on! Gary

Hi Chris, Good to see you back, many of us here have missed you teasing us with your fantastic forthcoming developments, and look forward to more details on Victory, Prince, and whatever the future holds. All in your own good time of course. Gary

I think the idea of a Shannon expressed by several others has merit, as well as being a ship of note in its own right (and would also like to see a Chesapeake) it has some extension possibilities. The cost of development and manufacture has to be a consideration for Chuck as a developer. The Shannon was a Leda class frigate of which there were some 46 produced for the Royal Navy, including the Trincomalee (my current scratch build) and the Unicorn as mentioned by Beef Wellington. Therefore the ability to adapt the base research at say 1:64 scale and produce a multitude of variants may be worth considering as a means of leveraging the initial investment. We have seen this to some extent with the Victory Models Vanguard / Elephant / Bellerepharon or Caldercrafts Cruiser / Snake. I wouldn't advocate providing a multiplicity of options in a single kit as that would make it too expensive, but perhaps a common starting point with options to take up for different ships may work. With something of a large class like a Leda you can go from the classic early ship with open rails of the Revolutionary Wars through to the Unicorn with its built up barricades and austere black and white paint scheme of the early 19th century, all which rests with the builder, not the developer. POB to keep the costs down. Perhaps an option on materials - if your going to paint the hull then keep the materials simple, if you want the classic look then a premium for box, pear, or whatever. Price - for the kit I want to build I don't have an issue with circa £500 \ $700, but possibly variable as above as I realise this is too steep for many Just my views, but ultimately it must come down to a concencus on demand from all of us and that we buy in to that consensus, otherwise Chuck may as well take up painting elephants white! Gary

Bring it back down to earth folks, one simple rule for an Englishman, you can measure length and weight in anything you are comfortable with, but beer must be by the pint Gary

Paul, Look at minaturebrickbargains on eBay, they sell a grout mix for minature bricks. Gary

Chris, It is taken fromThe Anatomy of Nelson's Ships by C Nepean Longridge. Gary

Paul, The danger with pencil lead is that you drag it on to the adjacent planking so you essentially get a bleeding effect. If you do try pencil lead then I suggest you do so post varnishing, this will reduce any bleeding. Personally I'd go with tree nails, trennels, or trunnels - however you want to pronounce it Regards Gary

Hi Jbwok, I've been watching yours and StuartC's build logs having started Warrior myself, having looked at the gap between frames I've started in-filling below the main gundeck between frames with balsa blocks to get past the problems your facing. As I have a way to go and haven't started planking yet it's too early to draw a comparison or if to know it will work. I'll try and get round to a build log over the Easter break so there is another approach to compare. I'm also looking to open up the citadel and rig it with the 68 Pounders and the Armstrong guns, and leave a semi open upper deck so you can see the detail. One problem I have found is that the kit supplied 110 PDR Armstrong guns are 4mm short at scale when compared to the detailed drawings Lavery has in his book HMS Warrior, so the scale is off. Aesthetically for the 2 upper deck guns I don't think it will matter, but I could come up short in the citadel if I replicate the kit guns as they will hardly protrude through the gun ports. Gary

Welcome onboard Sargofagus, I'm looking forward to seeing your work and that of your colleagues. It's a couple of years since I made it from the other side of the town to the Headland (where the Heugh Battery is situated for those non Hartlepudleans!), and will have to call in to take a close look at your restoration project if that is OK. Gary

I've thought on it Jay, and when I've compiled my list I'll be bold, up front and honest about it - I'll send her an email when I'm away on business Gary

Thanks Jay, A good reminder to all of us, I guess I've a few thousand invested on the book shelves when I sit back and think on it, and it is an investment worth protecting. Also a good idea on letting the other half know of that investment sat on those shelves (just in case), trouble is I dont know how she will take to me sharing that value - I'm sure she doesnt know the half of what I've spent!over the years! Gary

Geoff, Knees, breast hooks, and other curved pieces (such as frame components) were selected and cut from the forms that trees naturally took on as they grew, so a knee for example may be cut from the junction of the trunk and a branch thereby taking advantage of the strength in the natural wood form. There wasn't any manipulation of tree forms as they grew, just a good eye from the shipwrights to pick out the potential uses from the trees on offer. That is why as stocks of timber grew scarce in the UK iron knees and fastenings were increasingly in use from the latter part of the 18th century. Gary