Bob Fraser

Chimney rigging done, and added lateral tensioners.

Hog chains done.

Added a lateral chain at the aftmost diagonal, and a crossbeam on the sternposts. The rope was painted matt black to remove the turns, to look like iron rods, an idea stolen from @Cathead - Thanks! These were set into grooves to take them over the diagonals as on many steamers photos show they were bent to shape.

Many of them had a criss-cross of rods overhead open decks giving much more lateral and fore-aft strengthening, but I've decided not to show that as it tended to be on the smaller more open ones.

Next steps, the fencing and then tackle the foredeck.

Cheers for now,

Bob

Jumping in to follow - as I've this kit in line to be done.

Looking good so far.

Have you looked at the other completed builds on here yet? Recommended if not. (most of the builders haven't visited this site in a long time).

The carronade supplied are way out of the date range given for this model, so even it's being described as representative isn't entirely correct, something acknowledged in most builds. Some have used them, some have replaced them.

The earliest mention of carronade is (Wikipedia ) 1759, and it's inventor joined Carron in 1765. Production started in 1778, and the first fully carronade Royal Navy ship was around 1781-2. Before then it was marketed to merchantmen.

Other than that it's a nice model, and as it's been said many a time in many builds, it's your model and you build it to your wishes, with only helpful advise given.

Cheers,

Bob

Well done with that. At least one of mine de-laminated 😞  and there were other fitting issues too. Unfortunately this was done before I started a build log so there's no photos.

Keep up with the good work!

Thanks Cathead. I've raided the wifes bead store for small tubes which are crimped and painted black.

Thanks for looking in and the likes.

Nothing done yesterday, but some thought about the next move. After some consideration I've decided to leave the railings to as close to last as possible to give me some manoevering room without snapping stuff off.

So, first up today was fitting the eyes to the chimneys and decking for their tensioning lines. Then fitting the crossmember - the upper arm ends need shortening as the crown has a spike the goes centrally getting in the way.

I've installed only one line just now.

I've tried to simulate wire crimps at each end.

What do you think - a little large close up, or ok at the viewing distance?

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks @Cathead I've copied this into my riverboat resources thread with full credit 😀

Yesterday was a productive one.  After looking through innumerable photos of the hog posts (see above!) I realised that they were mostly square, with dimensions dependant on ship size.

So, back to the tooth pulling.

And out they came.

Squared off the holes to give a better for-aft alignment and put new posts in.

You may notice the triangular mark at the deck edge. This is for the new sternpost to suport the new stern trusses.

Cut out and

New stern post supplied reaching to the same height as the aft hog post with the post recessed into the deck to simulate going through to the hull framing.

Putting it all together with two new stern trusses to the tailboard it looks like this.

I used drilled holes and cut brass pins to simulate bolting of these pieces to each other and the deck.

This is how she looks now with chimney and steam escapes placed.

Having done this my advice to anyone watching and thinking of doing the same - hindsight is great!

Start this job early, after the main hull and cabins are finished.

1) Don't yet plank the upper decks!

2) Build and place the passenger cabins

3) Have the hurricane deck, passenger cabins and Texas deck placed but not glued

4) Decide the size of the wood to use for the hog posts. To create mine I used 2 x 62cm lengths of 4mm x 4mm for the diagonals and stern upright, 1 x       62cm length of 5mm x 4mm for the stern trusses from my store box. What you need will depend on how long you decide to cut the pieces, and the angle of the holes.

Mine came out at (2x) 10.2cm for the fore, 13.3cm for the aft, 11.7cm for the sternpost, 11.7cm for the lower truss and 14.2cm for the upper truss. Yours will pobably be different.

5) Square off the holes. I found that to get a good horizontal alignment (all hog posts and sternpost need to be in a straight line) and to pass the steam pipes I had to square them inboard of the original holes, but also check alignment with the tailboard, as the trusses have to be clear of the paddle arms. Start your cutting on the Texas deck, and angle / shape to meet the hurricane deck hole. Place the post through to the hurricane deck and mark around the hole where it meets. Remove the Texas deck and repeat the cutting to size, eventually place the Texas deck back to check for alignment and angle. Because you haven't planked the deck yet you don't have to be too neat!

6) Repeat 3 more times for the other fore and aft holes. Some larger ships had the central post, and some even doubled up on the fore / aft posts, but the central post is a personal choice now. I chose not to put one on.

7) DO NOT CUT your posts or trusses to size yet. The stern post size and truss lengths depend on the height you cut your aft hog post, as the sternpost is the same height as the hog post. This is best done once the build is much further on and before the main deck bracing and fencing is done. Remember to account for cutting angles!

The hog chain (iron rod) runs from the sternboard over the truss to the forepost meeting the main deck at the base of the foremost fencepost. Drilling the holes may be easier if done before glueing the upper decks in place.

Caveat - you do this at your own risk!  I did find a couple of photos, pages 3 and 4 at steamboat.com that show a very similar layout as AL give.

Looking around to find out what size turnbuckles, their placement and connections to decks for the hog chains I found this website Steamboats.com to have lots (and lots!) of extremely useful photos of "at the time".

The photos are in high res, so using ctrl and + together you can zoom in to see some incredible detail.

The turnbuckles are, in almost all cases on large boats, where the cage is screwed on the actual hog chain, fitted at head height at the fore, centrally fore and aft, and about 3 feet up on the upper deck paddle truss.

I have this kit to one side at the moment, partially completed hull.

Some of the parts you have are much better than the original one I got 9 years ago.

An etched deck and laser cut parts, colour build manual - such luxury!  The original had the diagram sheets and a couple of typed pages saying "do this" make that" with a parts dimension list. Only one of the reasons I put it aside to gain more experience and do some research to turn her into a reasonable model of a snow rigged sloop a distant cousin was 3rd lieutenant on.

Looking good. Does it come with cannon, or only the carronade as I, and many others who built this, got?

You may want to consider doing a seperate build log to your SF, as it can be found much easier

Cheers

Bob

BTW, keep all, or as much as possible, of your planking offcuts - they will come in useful! (You can always get rid later)

AL don't give much, if any, slack in the amount of wood they supply, also look at the dowels for warp / curvature / ovalness.

Yesterday afternoon.

OK, here we go - Deep breath and let's start ripping things out! 😱

First job, removal of the centre posts. As these aren't set into the lower deck, but just glued, so a tight grip with a pair of flat pliers, quick twist and - 

Gone! Just like pulling a tooth - Ouch!

Next, using a scalpel to cut new plank ends and to slice and lift the old planking - 

Centre upper deck planks and deck plank gone 😨

Planking replaced! 😂  and new fake treenails applied.

I didn't do the underside of the decks like this as access, and the ability to see, is very limited, so the holes were filled with offcuts of dowel.

After a sanding down, off to the the outside workspace for oiling to match colours as the smell affects the wifes asthma.

This morning - end result - 

Not too bad a match a little time, and hidden mostly by new railings, and you won't know! 😇  This also shows the new cut sizes of the hog chains, fore and aft. Aftermost is 2 people high.

Painted the smokestack, hereafter called the Chimney as I've learned thanks to @Cathead and his goldmine of info, but have been requested to leave the fancy parts of the chimney crown the original bronze colour.

Also added is the extra brass band around the base into the slot on the deck cowling for decoration.

The upper bands on the chimney itself - decoration, to help stop chimney expansion and rupture by heat, points for rigging eyes, joint bands to extend the chimney height, or a multiple of these uses? 🤯  Now to amend the stern with the extra strengthening braces for the hog chain rods

Cheers for now,

Bob

On 1/28/2021 at 1:53 AM, Sailor1234567890 said:

Wow, wish I had known getting Delftship to work on my mac was going to be such a challenge. Anyone else use a mac? I can't seem to get it to work on mine, even after downloading an emulator. 

Late 2012 Mac running Mojave 10.14.6

Using Wine/Winebottler I have Delftship v5 working, but can't get v10 or 13 to work.

v5 is 32bit as is Freeship v3.4 which I also have working.

The new Delftship v13 is 64bit, as is Freeship V5 which I can't get working either.

There are problems getting some 64bit programs to work as Wine is a 32 bit program. There is no 64bit Wine version for Mac, so it will only work properly in Mjoave (10.14) or lower, as Catalina is pure 64bit and won't even run OSX 32bit apps.

Also it appears OSX deprecated OpenGL3 in Mojave and above for Metal.

If you want to try either on a Mac you really need an older 32bit version.

It looks like either dual booting or a virtual Windows environment (Virtualbox, Crossover - who say they've got it running, Parallels) is the only viable solution for some programs.

Hope this helps a little.

Bob

A small update.  Using Virtualbox and Win7 64bit installing delftship 1330_334 on a Mac Mojave 14.6 it won't run.  However, putting the file opengl32.dll into the same directory as delftship.exe it starts and runs. Tweaking the Vm settings for RAM and Video RAM will get it to work at least usable.

Thanks Cathead. I just needed some confirmation before going on with the upgrade! Not sure about putting in the second set, but will look at the viability of putting them in (forward of the existing ones) and also putting in some lateral ones.

Going to remove the central post for definate though.

Updates in a couple of days!

No shame in self promotion!  Great explain and great video. More views of the hog chains on the Bertrand from approx 1:36.

Did you use crimps to simulate the turnbuckles?

I'm not trying to make an historically accurate model of any particular ship, but one that at least is reasonable, and where adjustments or additions can be made (without ripping the whole thing apart!), I'm prepared to at least try and do them. Great learning curve!

Looking at the "America"  which seems to be quite representative of a lower Mississippi river boat about 1900, it looks like -

1) at the highest the aft post should be cut to about 10 - 12 feet high, with the rod running down through the lower deck at about 60 degrees

2) an extra stern bracing beam needs to be added each side in line with the wheel arms extending aft to the deck end from about 8 feet above the upper deck, (which the rod will run down extending from the aft post)

3) maybe remove the central post altogether, which seems to be more representative the more photos you look at of this type of boat, or

4) the central and fore posts cut to give a rod angle of approx 15 degrees, the rod extending through the decks to level with the foremost railing newel.

5) There's also a cross truss between the aft posts and also the bracing beams.

I'm using the figures in the photo give a size representation for heights.

Looking closely at the high res version of this photo there are also the cross braces visible, presumably because there appears to be no structure except for the engine room under the next deck.

Thanks again,

Bob

Congratulations to you and your wife! Life will get very busy from now on - I know!

Those stairs - well, I just did something different, even AL have now given up on them and have straight ones on the new release model.

All the best,

Bob

Thanks for the explaination. Hadn't thought of hogging as to why the fore and aft are braced together, but it's fairly obvious when it's pointed out! 

AL also use the same term for the loop of rope formed through the eyes on the brass hoops on the smokestacks that tensions them to the deck.

I take it that proper turnbuckles were attached to the posts and deck to tighten the rope (wire or maybe actual chain?) to its proper tension?

Although on my model the angles at the tops are slightly out so they aren't quite in the straight line that I assume they, and the connecting ropes, should be now that I know what they are for, on the drawings that AL supply there is an inward angle at the stern for the rope that is run continuously from an eye forward on the lower deck threaded through holes in  the hog posts.

AL aren't (weren't) known for their accuracy of their models!

Brushing off done, and new wood oiled.

Having already painted the smoke stacks I decided to sort them out, and the other smaller stacks to make sure the sizes and holes were correct before doing fiddly delicate work that could be broken off.  These are just paced at the moment.

Also did the side masts that AL call "turnbuckles" as these run alongside the side railings.

The smokestacks I'd already painted - bad move as it turned out.  The brass rings wouldn't fit! So some sanding and fit testing ended up with this -

Still to paint the fancy bits, and will put a brass strip around the expanded base inside the indent.

For the turnbuckles - well, the deck holes are cut through vertically and are too small for the width of dowel required, so some shaping and angling of the holes on both decks is required. Again best done before any railings are fitted!

Engine room stacks, again holes too small for the required dowel and didn't quite line up straight - probably my fault when fitting the upper decks.

On the revamped release these at turned in at the bottoms, so holes resized, bottoms shaped to a curve, and shaved to fit.

Going to put a brass strip around the outer to hold it against the upper deck.

The guard railings around the stern were made and fitted.

I noticed that the upper two decks upper and lower railings are inset into the newels. This is only visible on a couple of pictures, and not mentioned at all in the instructions. Bad photo, but you can clearly see the mortice cut out on the centre deck, and that the lower rails are inset on both levels.

Going to give it a try!

Got the grandkids today, so all work put safely out of reach!

Cheers for now,

Bob

Small update.

Added the handrails to the upper level stairs.

These are the dimension used for my build - probably won't work for anyone elses. Quicker and easier to work out 1 and then copy it.

Used brass beading wire, 0.8mm diameter.

If anyones interested Artesania Latina now have a new website  and a New Revamped Kit!  The photo etch railings have changed for the better, and it comes with a base and nameplate.  You can also buy a not yet available  LED lighting kit and motor for the paddle, and a set of figures that are.

Now I need to give it a good brushing off - you can't see the dust under normal lighting!

Cheers,

Bob

Looking neat there - you probably could stand on it, but, just in case, think of all the work you've done on the stem! 

Bob

Thanks all for the encouragement.

Realised I'd forgotten to put the bead cap on the railing newels - Doh!

Checked out the instruction manual and it shows them just glued on.  As this is going to be with brass railings, (no paint except where needed are the orders!), I decided to embellish them with a brass top. Holes drilled into the top where reachable, and brass nails cut to size slotted into place and glued.

Also added the three remaining upper staircases, thinning the sides down - something I should have done to the others before installing - as they're quite thick.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but always too late!

I've also rounded off the edges on the paddles as they just seemed "wrong" with the sharp corners.

Cheers for now.

Bob

Background - 

One day earlier this year I found what I thought was an old penny at the entrance gate to the field where our horses are kept.

When I got it home and cleaned it up it looked like a token with the letters CD with a crown between on it.  After some research it turns out it is the cover of a button from the uniform of a Civil Defence Force member.

I asked the farmer if it could have belonged to a member of his family so I could return it, as he regularly uses rubble from a dumping ground to fill in holes in the tracks.
It wasn't, and he explained that he has an area of land that, during 1941 - 43, Bootle council used as a dumping ground for clearances from the bombing, mainly from the May blitz in 1941. Over the years lots of bits and pieces have turned up, including, gruesomely, some body parts. Over the years other local councils have used Crosby beach front to dump their wartime rubble, and to help create a sea defence.

After 1943 these buttons became plastic / bakelite, and where it came from definately dates it to the Blitz. The members of the Civil Defence Force were initially Air Raid Wardens, but widend into the CDF and became responsible for many other roles during and after the air raids. Liverpool Civil Defence Force

I've found bottles and cutlery but probably this is the most poignant and personal item I've found, belonging to an unknown person who, for whatever reason was unable to join up, took on this thankless and often dangerous job.

My grandfather was a member of the Home Guard during WW2, and one of his friends drove a fire engine His Story which he told me himself but here is told by one of his daughters. And more Civil Defense Liverpool stories Liverpool CDF Awards 1941

These stories and the brave actions were repeated all over the UK.

So this turned into my own little homage to these brave people.

This is the first time I've touched a plastic model airplane in about 45 years, but the button desreved a display, not just to be put away.

Thanks for reading,

Bob

At last - a real update! (Sorry for the delay)

Lower deck uprights added to the remaining side and both sides now have lower deck railings.

Steam stacks made and placed but removable for access to installing railings later on.

And of course the captain and his mate have to inspect

Cheers,

Bob

On 5/19/2021 at 7:03 PM, Vegaskip said:

Mersey Return
 

Two Flowers and an HDML

W/C 14" X 10"

It's as if you were there!  This was only half a mile from where I used to live.  When the tall ships came to visit this was the entrance they used.

Really enjoy your paintings!

Bob

Hi Cathead, and others who are following along.

Sorry for the silence so far, life really does get in the way at times!

Just before things were put away I fitted up a jig onto the mini pillar drill in order to make 0.5mm slots 0.5mm deep into 1.5mm planks to take the PE railings. This was so much faster than hand filing I'd done and I thought "Yes! I can get this done!", and then had to pack it all up.

It did turn out to be a longer job than thought. He wanted a space themed bedroom with models on shelves and walls, but wanted specific ones, and the room fairly specific. He's high end autistic and everything has to be just so. Still got the Saturn V to finish and the Eagle lander to do.

Walls, ceiling, bedding and curtains needed to be glow in the dark, and one wall a giant nebula mural with glowing stars added.

It didn't stop there! The house then had a new damp course in the hall, living room and kitchen, so a full strip down and decorate throughout which include the satirwell and landing, with a new kitchen yet to be installed and then re-decorated.

Meanwhile middle son (23) was staying with us as his "support bubble" for the first UK lockdown taking up the modelling area.

Our two youngest, above son (11) and his sister who is 13, are home schooled so I do a the lesson planning and "one to one teaching", normally I was able to manage to do a little modelling around them, but not this time.

Christmas arrived and went and I'm only now being able to get back to getting a corner to work on and the modelling stuff out.

I did get an early christmas present though, a pillar drill for the shed - ploy by the admiral to get me to make body joints for the posable teddy bears that she makes as presents for family and friends. (also because I nearly took my left thumbnail off at the bed of the cuticle using a hand drill to make them when she ran out of shop-bought ones).

I'm looking at the King as I type, back on a shelf in the living room, the parts box is almost accessible again in the store room so hopefully in a week or so.

Thanks for looking in,

Bob

Nice paintwork - wish mine was as good.

I've seen her each time she came into the Mersey. I used to work for British Telecom and the building looked out on the river. The 1st time she came to Liverpool, as she went down river to turn, she rode so high the funnel cut off the microwave phone links across the river, and again when she turned back to come up opposite the Liver building to anchor. Caused quite a stir until it was realised that was what had happened 😃

Have this one in a stash put away for when I have the time. (Home schooling 2 kids leaves very little free 😞 )

Your fantastic build will be used as inspiration for it.

Besst wishes,

Bob