10th-11th century Byzantine dromon by Louie da fly - FINISHED - 1:50

[woodrat]

On 2017-5-7 at 11:32 AM, Louie da fly said:

 

Currently I’m at the limit of the detail I can put in just wearing my normal glasses. If I wanted to improve it I’d have to invest in a super-duper magnifying glass, which I’m not prepared to do.

 

Steven

 

Steven, I use loupes for all fine work. There are very good magnifying headsets on the market which are not expensive. Better than eyestrain I say.

Dick

[Louie da fly]

Very interesting, Dick. I just searched them up on the net and they cost about 30 bucks. Pretty good value. And the built-in LED light would be a bonus as well. I like a LOT of light when I'm ship modelling.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

I'm more than 1/4 way through the planking now. It's not as tidy as I'd like - I've learnt a lot of lessons during the process about proper preparation of the substructure (i.e. getting all the frames at exactly the same level) which I didn't do this time. I first cut grooves in the plug for the frames, then I changed my mind and decided to get rid of the grooves and have the frames stand out proud of the plug - which is what I should have done in the first place.

 

But because I couldn't cut the grooves precisely enough to the same depth with a handsaw they were all at slightly different depths and even after smoothing off the plug some of the frames still sit in the remnants of the grooves, while others sit fully proud of the plug. So I end up with wobbly planks.

 

I've fixed that to a certain degree using filler made from white glue and wood dust. But I should have used dust from the (pine) planks instead of re-using the stuff from the (plane tree) frames and wales, because the colour of the filler doesn't match the planks. Not a big problem - I'm going to paint the bottom of the ship black to simulate pitch or tar, and the sides will be red and yellow, as befits the Imperial dromon.

 

Five planks (plus garboards) in place:

 

 

Another problem that has arisen is that the planks seem to tilt somewhat, so the edge of the new plank is a little higher than the edge of the previous one. I think this is because I've been using push pins to hold the planks in place as the glue dries. The pins push on only one side of the plank, so no matter how careful I am, it tilts a little. I can  sand this smooth, but it offends me that I couldn't get it right first time. I'll have to find a better method of holding the planks in place.

 

Putting the sixth in place:

 

 

By the way, with the last plank so close to the wale, the flanges of the push pins were getting in the way, so I trimmed off one side of each flange and it fitted well. Dunno what I'm going to do with the last plank - nowhere for the pin to go - maybe I'll just have to hold the plank in place with my fingers till the glue dries . . .

 

But if I ever make another dromon (fat chance!) I'll know what mistakes to avoid. All part of life's rich tapestry.

 

I've also done preliminary painting on my two figures. Haven't sanded fully enough (a fact that isn't obvious until you take a detailed close-up photo) and I have yet to paint faces and the guardsman's hair, add shading etc etc , but it's starting to look good.

 

 

Steven

 

 

[BANYAN]

The trials and tribulations of planking Steven; I am glad to see you persevering with this nice build.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Thanks everybody for all the 'likes'

 

More planking - at last she starts to take shape as a ship rather than just a framework!

 

Not totally satisfied with my planking - I realise I still have a lot to learn about it, but the only way to do so is to practice practice practice - and I think for a first time it's not too bad. The gaps I've left between planks are pretty small and can be filled with wood dust and glue. But those scarph joints are a real trial!

 

Closing up the gap between the first and second wale (counting from the keel). Two strakes between the wales - one in place, the other has the forwardmost plank glued in, and the other two planks shaped but not yet in place.

 

As I mentioned before, I'll need to sand the hull smooth - it's supposed to be carvel built, not clinker! (the overlaps between planks are a result of my inexperience and my use of push pins to hold the planks in place). I'm learning as I go. You can see places where I've tried a little preliminary sanding and I think it will end up ok.

 

And here she is with the gap closed up. Note the scarph joints.

 

 

The dark pencilled-in semi-circles are where the oarports will be. I have to be very careful about placement; I've only got half the frames in place at the moment - the rest will follow after I've finished the planking - and the width of the oarport is the same as the gap between frames - there's only just enough room to fit the oarports in.

 

I had hoped not to have to use stealers or drop planks, but with the shape of the rear 'tail" and the position of the wales I didn't have much choice and had to add drop planks. Note, the Viking longships didn't need them - they had planks following the curve of the ship's ends - but they didn't have wales to complicate the issue. It is known that dromons did have wales to strengthen them, and early during the design process I had to work out their position and shape, and now I'm living with the consequences. I've had to make the best of it, but I think it still doesn't look half bad.

 

Two designs for the drop planks at the "tail", one with four main planks between the wales, one with three. As it turned out I'm not following either exactly - I'm doing a variation on the second one.

 

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

I'm onto the second last row of planks for the larboard side. I can't put in the top plank because the screws holding the ship to the plug are in the way.

 

 

So once I've completed this run of planks I'll start planking the starboard side. I've learnt a fair bit while doing this and I hope the second side will be better.

 

 

Planking the tail. Because of the extreme curve I've had to put in a couple of drop planks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've sanded the planks down so they look more like the carvel construction they're supposed to be. Still got a way to go, and it looks like I may need to do some filling, and/or I might have to wait till I take the ship off the plug before I complete the smoothing off.

 

 

 

 

Still, fairly happy with the way it's turning out. It's good to finally have something that actually looks like a ship! And I can't get over what an elegant shape she is.

 

Steven

 

 

[Gerhardvienna]

Hi Steven

 

Just watched your build without a word. Really fine art you are showing us, she turns out nice! I like that shape.

 

Regards

Gerhard

[MartinB]

This is seriously good stuff Steven. Keep up the good work.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Louie da fly]

Thanks everybody for the likes. Much appreciated. Thanks for the compliments, Gerhard and Martin. I like the shape too. It's nice to be making such an elegant ship.

 

Martin, you live in Gisborne! We're practically neighbours!

 

Latest - I've now completed the second last plank on the port side. As mentioned before I had to miss the top one because of the screws in the way. I'll come back to it later. I've put in the drop planks now, and it's looking pretty good. A bit of filling needed, unfortunately, but not too much (it looks a lot worse in the photos than in real life).

 

I've temporarily packed out the planking at the tail so it lines up as well as possible with the curved gunwale. I'm hoping I don't have to do too much adjustment at this spot.  I might have to add another layer of planking to get a smooth line - I won't know till I put in the top plank.

 

I've not yet used a third of the plank sheeting Woodrat sent me, which is a relief. I was wasting a few at the beginning and I was worried I'd run out before I finished. But it looks like it should be ok.

 

I've started planking the starboard side. I felt I had to at least make a start on that, otherwise I'd be tempted to rest on my laurels.

 

And I've worked up a design for the stand for the ship to rest on. This is half of it - it's mirrored at the right hand side (where you can see the slot for the keel). There will be two of these transverse to the hull, about 1/3 of the way in from each  end, and sitting on a base running along the length of the ship. I'll be carving it in 3 dimensions in pear wood. The design itself is based on one found on an 11th century openwork Byzantine hanging lamp, so it's appropriate to the time and culture.

 

 

 

[druxey]

Good progress, Steven. Is there a reason you didn't plank both sides in tandem?

[Louie da fly]

Impatience, mostly. After all the preamble and preparation, I really wanted to see what she'd look like. If I'd done it in tandem it would have taken twice as long to find out. As she was done on a plug there was no danger of an imbalance of forces from the planks on one side causing her to warp before the others were put on.

 

Of course, I could have just taken the photos of one side and pretended I'd done both . . .

 

Steven

 

 

[druxey]

Oh, you impetuous youth! Thanks for the explanation, Steven.

[Louie da fly]

Impetuous, yes. But it's a while since anybody's called me a youth . . .

 

Steven

[russ]

Steven:

Your planking is coming along well. This is an interesting and challenging hull form to plank.

 

Russ

 

 

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Russ. And thanks everybody for the likes. 

 

I just realised today why I've been having so much trouble, having to cut exaggeratedly curved planks for the bow and stern which get wider and wider as they approach the ends. It all comes down to making the garboard strake far too short due to inexperience. I misinterpreted a tutorial and now have to live with the result. It's far too late to fix it now - if I tried removing the planks I'd destroy the frames because they're so frail. So I'm putting it down to experience and I'll do better on the next model I make. I've found my planking technique has improved as I've gone along, however.

 

I've been working on the starboard side planking. Here's some progress pics.

 

On the last photo above you can see the effect of getting the garboard strake wrong - the gap between the top plank and the wale should be pretty much the same all the way along the hull, but it's become far too wide at bow and stern. I won't make that mistake again.

 

I've got the underwater hull completely planked now, and I'm about to start on the sides. Looking forward to finishing and taking her off the plug at last! The planks are a little wonky - caused by really thin planks over frames not perfectly in line because I'd cut grooves in the plug for them. Another mistake that won't be made a second time.

 

 

If ship modelling is all about learning from your mistakes, I've certainly learnt a lot! Still, nil desperandum - I'm having a lot of fun with it and the faults (that are so obvious to me at the moment) won't detract from the final model. And with experience I'm becoming a better modeller.

 

Steven 

[druxey]

I applaud your attitude to the learning process, Steven. It's a good one! We all learn from our mistakes and experience (if we persist) and each model is better than the previous one. Your current model is an ambitious project, and you should be proud of what you have accomplished so far. Many others would simply have given up and taken up a different hobby.

[BANYAN]

Great progress Steven, she is coming along fine despite the issues caused by the garboard plank.  As Druxey has said - great attitude to the process.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Louie da fly]

Thanks Banyan and Druxey. It means a lot coming from people like you. If I can emulate the quality of your work I'll consider myself a true ship modeller.

 

Steven

[Louie da fly]

I've been working on the stand for the ship in between times. Here are some progress pics.

 

Roughly sawn to shape and holes drilled for the openwork, which I've made a start on. The timber is pearwood, from the neighbour's tree. Once it's shaped I'll cut two layers about 4 or 5mm thick to make the ends of the stand.

Smoothed off the outside shape somewhat, and roughed out a bit of pearwood to make the joining strip from. It will fit in a horizontal slot at the bottom to join the two parts of the stand.

 

When I'm planking sometimes the heads of the pushpins  are too big to fit in the space available, so I've been trimming them down with a Stanley knife.

Unfortunately they aren't all that strong and when you try to adjust the position of one, or take it out with a pair of pliers . . .

 

 

It's great fun trying to lever half a push pin out of the plug with a knife blade, without destroying the planking adjoining it.

 

Steven

 

[cog]

On 17/06/2017 at 11:52 AM, Louie da fly said:

Thanks, Russ. And thanks everybody for the likes. 

 

I just realised today why I've been having so much trouble, having to cut exaggeratedly curved planks for the bow and stern which get wider and wider as they approach the ends. It all comes down to making the garboard strake far too short due to inexperience. I misinterpreted a tutorial and now have to live with the result. It's far too late to fix it now - if I tried removing the planks I'd destroy the frames because they're so frail. So I'm putting it down to experience and I'll do better on the next model I make. I've found my planking technique has improved as I've gone along, however.

 

I've been working on the starboard side planking. Here's some progress pics.

 

On the last photo above you can see the effect of getting the garboard strake wrong - the gap between the top plank and the wale should be pretty much the same all the way along the hull, but it's become far too wide at bow and stern. I won't make that mistake again.

 

I've got the underwater hull completely planked now, and I'm about to start on the sides. Looking forward to finishing and taking her off the plug at last! The planks are a little wonky - caused by really thin planks over frames not perfectly in line because I'd cut grooves in the plug for them. Another mistake that won't be made a second time.

 

 

If ship modelling is all about learning from your mistakes, I've certainly learnt a lot! Still, nil desperandum - I'm having a lot of fun with it and the faults (that are so obvious to me at the moment) won't detract from the final model. And with experience I'm becoming a better modeller.

 

Steven 

 

You could turn this in a half model, and start anew ... (merely suggesting )

 

I like the way your stands are developing. Pearwood is quite nice to shape

[Louie da fly]

Thanks, Carl, but I've gone too far now to change tack (sorry!). Anyway, the faults aren't all that obvious to the naked eye and should respond very nicely to a bit of judicious filling (By the way, anybody recommend a good filler? Otherwise I'll use thinned white glue and sawdust from the build - I've got oodles of it!). And once filled and painted, they should vanish.

 

The thing is, with the wonderful examples on this forum I'd set my sights pretty high for what was really my first serious set of planking. That I didn't reach that exalted level first time isn't really anything to be upset about. Though I'd have liked the planks to run more smoothly together like the ones the experienced guys do, I'm actually rather proud of the results I've got.

 

Steven

[cog]

For a serious first time, you do seriously well Steven. Can't help you on the filler part, as the ones I know are either for plastic, or will show up ugly when you treat the hull with clear laquer

[mtaylor]

Steven,

 

The glue and sawdust works very well.  Use a 50-50 mix of water and white glue and then mix in the sawdust to a putty like consistency.  As always, test first on some scrap as describing "consistency" is a variable.

[druxey]

If you are painting her anyway, automotive filler does a great job....

[woodrat]

Don't be too concerned. I f you look at preserved galleys in the Istanbul Naval Museum, there are some imperfections in the run of planking. Models should never be "perfect" but they should be interesting and yours surely is.

Dick

[cog]

Hear, hear, Dick

[jonk]

lot of research...patience...its amazing 

[MartinB]

Hi Steven, Quite a while since we heard from you. Is the hull planking complete on both sides now?

 

Best regards, Martin

[Louie da fly]

Hi Martin,

 

I've got about three planks to do, plus a bit of tidy-up (well, bodge, actually) to fix an earlier miscalculation.

 

I've been meaning to post progress pics, but with pressure of work in my new job all I want to do at the end of the day is lie down on the couch and veg out (for non-Australians, that's acting like a vegetable - lie there doing nothing).

 

Give me till the weekend and with a bit of luck I'll be able to summon the energy to complete the planking. I'll still have to do some filling and sanding to smooth off the surface, but overall it's starting to look pretty good.

 

Then I can move on - first cut the oarports, then take the hull off the plug and put in the other half of the frames (between every pair of the existing ones).

 

Then I can work out what to do next - I'll probably put in the mast steps first and then work up a structure to hold the lower bank of oars in position.

 

Still a long way to go before she's complete, but little steps, little steps . . .

 

 

Steven 

[Louie da fly]

Finally got a chance (and the energy) to get to the computer and update the build log.

 

I've come to terms with the fact that the planking isn't and won't be perfect and decided to do the best job I can to make a worthwhile model, even if there's a bit of behind-the scenes bodge that only I know about. Really, looking at it again, its' a damned good-looking ship and definitely worth the extra work to bring it up to scratch. I think a bit of filling and sanding will make all the difference. And I've learnt a lot that will stand me in good stead for the next build.

 

So, apart from a bit of tweaking still needed around the "tail", I'm almost finished planking. Here are some progress pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

This (above) is the bit I'm least happy with. If I can get this straightened out I think I'll be a lot happier with the build.

 

 

 

Up to the antepenultimate plank . . .

 

 

And the stand is making good progress - not yet where I want it to be, but looking good. I may put some three-dimensional work into it - the vines and leaves - rather than just leaving it as a flat surface.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just dry fitted at the moment, until I finish all the carving. But I think it will be a fitting adjunct to the model itself.

 

More updates in due course.

 

Steven