HMS Victory by Seventynet - Caldercraft - Scale 1: 72 - first build

[Seventynet]

Hi all,

 

This is my first build and I am aware this ship represents an expert level kit, but I love a challenge, and so far, at least with all of the excellent build logs on this site I don't feel out of my depth. Although please be the judge of that as my efforts unfold.

 

I elected to take the bulkhead filler block path and even though it took me a while to shape these, I was happy I did. It allowed me to see how the planks would lie and provided a solid surface to mate the planks in these geometrically complicated areas.

 

Next set of pics to follow.

[Seventynet]

Next set of pictures.

[Seventynet]

And final set that brings me up to where I am now. Lots of work ahead!

 

Ian

Edited November 15, 2015 by Seventynet

[Malcolm Greig]

I'm only a second time builder (and the 1st ended up in the parts bin) so I'm not qualified to help. But I will say you have made a courageous decision to start with the Victory and good on you.. If this site had of existed during my first build I may have succeeded. It's being a huge help during my second build (HMS Mars). 

 

Good luck.

 

Malcolm 

[Seventynet]

Thanks Malcolm and clearway for the like. I have learned so much from reading about other builds; I would not have attempted this build without this site. In spite of all of these other experiences, it is amazing what I have learned on my own. My number one - on-my-own learning is to not assume that the kit supplied parts are always accurate. I didn't realize that almost all of the bulkheads need fixing. I only paid attention to the bow and stern bulkheads and paid scant attention to bulkheads 6 to 14. If I sight down the top edge of successive planks I can see my folly. I will be spending far more time sanding and filling than if I had paid attention at the outset.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Seventynet

[Shipyard sid]

Greetings Ian

Well here we go with another caldercraft victory, and a couple of years of real enjoyment for yourself. As you well know you will never be short of advice should you need it during your build. Just take your time and enjoy yourself .. Regards DAVID.

[Seventynet]

Thanks for the encouragement David. Ok a quick update because I will be away from the shipyard for a week or two. As you can see I haven't progressed that far but I feel as though I have conquered a few challenges.

 

The first picture is of my good friends whom I relied on so much for this first planking. I have found them to be invaluable.

 

The next pictures are of the port stern, midships and bow. I am not unhappy with the stern planking. I found the bow approach to be tedious and not pleasing to the eye. I should mention that my main goal for the first planking was to let the planks go where they wanted and minimize edge bending. This of course results in pretty obvious convergence points at bulkhead 17 and right at the bow necessitating lots of tapering and drop planks.

 

I know it's only first planking but I have relied on this stage to educate myself about how it's done so that the second planking will be better. I have in my mind that I would like to more closely imitate the bow planking on the real Victory which as far as I can determine is for all of the planks to run parallel and horizontally. I am guessing this will require lots of spiling and as a consequence, wider walnut planks.

 

Ian

Edited February 7, 2016 by Seventynet

[jdbradford]

I think it looks rather good.  This is one area that I have trouble with, the planking.  If there are no major gaps or popping of planks, then I am happy.  I use lots of wood filler and sanding, especially for the first layer.  I am having similar issues on my Fair American and hope that the second layer looks better.

 

Jeff

[Seventynet]

Thanks Jeff I appreciate the words. Best of luck on Fair American.

[Shipyard sid]

Greetings Ian

Don't worry about your first planking. It will all be ok once you use filler and smooth it all off. You will find the second planking is easier, as the planks bed down onto the first planking. I found that I did not have great deal of in filling to do. Take your time and enjoy it. DAVID

Edited August 25, 2015 by Shipyard sid

[fifthace]

Hi Ian.

 

Just to echo what David said, and to expand...depending on how anal you are, I wouldn't worry too much about the 1st planking. As long as you have a good smooth surface it doesn't really matter what it looks like...and to a certain extent, in the Vic's case the same applies to the 2nd planking. Everything below the waterline wont be seen once the coppering is done, so again as long as you get a nice smooth surface, you only really need to worry about the 2nd planking above the waterline.

 

Keep going

[Seventynet]

Hi Folks,

 

I have finished the port side first planking. The darker wood pieces in contrast to the lime wood are basswood planks. I cut them a little thicker to reduce the number of drop planks/stealers. I noticed that they snap a little more readily than the lime wood . I'm 80% complete on the starboard side and once I am finished I will go after a few shallow spots that I noticed. I'm not sure what is the best was to find all of these areas but I'll figure it out when I get there.

 

Can anyone tell me whether I can still use PVA with the walnut planking if I prime the first layer? I've noticed that some of you prime the walnut layer before coppering but I haven't noticed whether anyone has primed the first layer as a means of detecting flaws and smoothing the hull.

 

Best, Ian

 

 

[Shipyard sid]

Greetings Ian

Don't use primer at all on the finished first planking. Use filler, but Only on any low point areas, and small gaps. Of course you can use PVA and CA were you think it helps. Most builders primed the hull after the second planking before adding the copper plates, as it gives a nice clean an clear surface to work on if you follow. Others will also give you advice, which you will never be short of during your build. Well done Ian, it's looking good. Take your time and simply enjoy it. DAVID

[Seventynet]

Thanks a lot David for the advice and others for the likes. Please be critical of my efforts, I am a neophyte at best. So I've finished the first planking with the exception of filling a few shallow areas and final sanding. I am so ready to move on to the next task!

 

Some picture mainly of the starboard side:

 

 

[fnick]

Hi Ian

 

New to this hobby are you? You couldn't tell from your first planking. Super job!

 

Nick

[Seventynet]

Question to my fellow CC Victory builders. I am at the stage where I am told by the instructions to install the quarter galleries. I am not quite seeing why I need to do that at this stage of the build or at least to the extent suggested - perhaps other than to do a dry fit to make sure nothing has gone off the rails. I have done a dry fit and everything associated with the inner fascia (374) and inside patterns (373) and associated right angle patterns, upper and lower stern counters (371 and 372) look like they will go together fine. Would I be able to get away with simply gluing on the 373 inside (side) patterns and leaving the rest until later? The idea being that 373 would help guide the second planking. My main concern is breaking something especially when so much work in and around the quarter galleries remains. Maybe I'm making too big a deal of it but it just seems unnecessary at this stage?

 

Edit: It looks like I have answered my own question. The lower and upper counters also need to be in place for second planking - which means that the fascia would also need to be there to make sure the counters are fitted appropriately. So there we go.

 

Ian

Edited September 13, 2015 by Seventynet

[Seventynet]

Hi folks,

 

Here we go. First picture is showing the stern post fit. I spent some time sanding and chiselling out a channel for the post. I thought I might otherwise run into problems doing that once the fascia is on.

 

Next pictures shows a few dry fits and then gluing the inner patterns and fascia.

 

The fascia patiently waits for me to catch the edges on my sweater so that I can join that august club .

 

Best, Ian

Edited February 15, 2017 by Seventynet

[Seventynet]

Hi again, Thanks for the views and likes.

 

I've added the q-g braces and counters. You may notice that I put the lower stern counter on backwards . After I soaked it and preformed it, I figured I would run into issues if I tried to bend it the opposite way. So on she went. I've made pin pricks where the corners of the two windows are supposed to be on the counter facing outward by transferring scotch tape tracing from the correct side. Something to figure out later. Oh and I did in fact break a fascia tab off!

 

I'm not sure where I'm going next. I know I can leave the rest until I finish second planking but there is also no good reason why I shouldn't finish the quarter gallery now - other than I want to move onto another surface.

 

Ian

 

 

[pompey2]

Hi Ian

Great to see another CC Victory log.

It is a big undertaking but very rewarding, looks like you have made a great start, really nice work so far.

I thought that the Quarter Galleries and the Bow were the hardest parts so take your time.

 

Keep enjoying

 

Nick

[Seventynet]

Nick thanks for looking in and encouraging me.

 

I've started planking the middle deck. It's going well so far except I realized too late that I paid scant attention to randomizing the different colour planks (I'm doing the 4 butt shift with 85 mm lengths). I know it doesn't matter for this deck but it is great practice for the more visible decks.

 

Ian

Edited February 7, 2016 by Seventynet

[Seventynet]

Good Day,

 

I finished planking the middle gun deck. Now I guess I need to find something to seal it with. Anyway, a few pictures...

 

The first pics (I hope) show the clamping I devised to cut the planks to length without chipping the edges to death on my chop saw. As you can see they came out pretty well and allowed me to get a little assembly line going. I then sorted the planks according to width based on eyeballing how they looked standing on edge relative to each other. After the first half of planking I used the micrometer on each plank and resorted them. I found this helped in closing some of the gaps that were showing up.

 

I set up a temporary centre plank to get started with a straight line.

 

I got a much better pattern going with the different shades of wood on the port side - methinks.

 

On to the entry port linings. I keep reading on how to apply glue to the ends before cutting the walnut strips to size. So I will have to figure that out next.

 

Best, Ian

Edited October 11, 2015 by Seventynet

[Seventynet]

Good day,

 

I have lined the entry ports. I see it will be quite a learning experience working with walnut. Chips and cracks galore. Anyway a couple of pictures. I'm onto wales and second planking now.

 

Best, Ian

 

[Seventynet]

Hi folks,

 

I have been moving along at the pace of a snail and I don't have very much to report. Just two things.

 

First is my jig for cutting second planking (I'm using 85 mm planks). I used an aluminum mitre box, that I don't really find useful for anything else, with a strip of oak for a base and saw cuts through the box to mark 85 mm. Once I use my chop saw I place strips on either end so that I can sand the planks down to about the same width. I get 45 planks each go.

 

Second, just an observation. I had a piece of walnut that I bought a month ago to mill into strips that I could use for spiling at the bow. As it turns out the strip in the picture is going to have to be used for my wales (at 2mm) and gun port linings as the contrast would be ok I think - and I will use the gun port lining strips (1x16mm) supplied with the kit for the spiling instead. Reason is that the walnut I bought (I assume black walnut) is not the same colour as the planking. In fact the walnut I bought is much closer in colour to the transom fascia and keel than the planking. I have always felt that the planking walnut looks more like mahogany than walnut, but I guess I'm used to North American walnut. Now many of you might be saying who cares, you're going to copper the hull anyway. And I'd probably agree.

 

Best, Ian

 

[Mike Dowling]

Hi there, only just found your log. I am thinking about doing a Victory and contemplating raiding my piggy bank to do it. Like you I am a novice to ship building and I wanted to ask, did you choose to put in balsa fillers at the bow and stern prior to planking or was that supplied or suggested in the instructions?

 

Good luck with your build, I shall follow with interest.

Mike.

[Seventynet]

Hi Mike,

 

I decided to put in basswood fillers because I didn't trust myself to make smooth curves between those tortuous areas. The instructions are silent on this issue. I also thought that if I had to join planks in those areas that I would be spending time building in wider attachment points on the bulkheads anyway. If one terminates or begins a plank in an area like this without filler blocks you have to be very careful that the bend is uniform because the bend before or after the joint is influenced. Let me know if that is not clear. Although I spent what I know is an inordinate amount of time shaping the blocks, I feel it paid off. Balsa wood in those areas is too soft to take a pin or screw clamp which I found necessary. I think balsa is fine in other non- curvey areas as small fillers and I used them between bulkheads 13 and 16 adjacent to the keel where I had to start stealers. Not much stress in those areas and I had the balsa fillers glued and shaped in no time. Words of a novice and subject to correction by more experienced builders.

 

Best of luck with your build and I am happy to discuss things with you if you decide to go ahead with the build.

 

Best, Ian

[Mike Dowling]

Thanks Ian for your helpful reply. When I built my Bounty (the first large ship I had ever tried) I made use of fillers at the bow and stern and found them to be invaluable for all the reasons you have stated. I would certainly recommend it as a technique to both new and experienced builders alike

[Seventynet]

Hi again folks,

 

I wanted to show you a problem I ran into which of course would not be a problem if I had any other intention than coppering the hull. But there you have it. I had the temerity as a first time builder to think I could do a good enough job to show the hull off in walnut.

 

First the stern - I think looks pretty good...

Then midships, things are fitting together fairly well...

Finally, the mess of different colour woods at the bow. The lighter coloured wood is the 1 by 16 mm walnut gun port planking used to spile the bow section planks so that I could achieve a horizontal lie (that I want to emulate). Obviously this kit supplied walnut was sourced from a different stock (not to confuse with the walnut I also bought locally and milled). I honestly didn't notice how different the wood looked until I gave it a light sand and moistened it. Dread. So unless I can figure out how to get this stuff to look more like the other planking, or rip it out and find some other wood (seems very difficult to do), I am going to have to accept that coppering is in my future. Anyone have any advice/encouragement/pity for me??

 

Best, Ian

Edited February 15, 2017 by Seventynet

[Heinz6672]

Hi Ian, I would first like to compliment you for your great work. You work very clean. So it is only natural that the whole thing costs a lot of time. If you want to quickly finish a Victory you would have to buy a plastic model. But that would be a real shame ......

 

You once asked me to tell you my honest opinion and to give advice. Even though I'm not the most experienced modelers, I want to tell you my thoughts. As already said, you work very clean. I think we have the same attitude to our model. Namely that the coppering should be our last solution. We only want to copper the victory to rescue the hull if it´s necessary to do.  I don´t think that you should think about it at this time!!!

 

I have to admit that I don´t have a solution to let the different color disappear. I don´t think that staining would work. In my opinion the only solution is to remove these planks and renew them with the same wood you use to build on the midship. I know it´s quite hard to destroy the work of days, maybe weeks, but I know that someday you will be glad for making that decision.

 

Don´t be afraid of using the same wood. Even if its thicker than the 1 x 16 mm wood you use, it´s possible to work with it. Look at my build. I use walnut with 2 mm thickness. 

 

Something different: For me it looks like you do the planking line for line. You look if your plank fit to the one above and than you start the next line. I did it the same way on my San Felipe. Every time I tried it this way I came to the point the curvature of the bow gets to heavy. The planks seems to run up to heaven. I had to cut them in a way that could not be the real way. And it looks terrible! I am afraid, Ian, that you will get to this point soon. So what to do?

 

You have to split the hull in maybe 4, 5 or 6 parts. Than you have to.... Sorry Ian, I can not explain it in english. Look here: 

http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-framing-and-planking-articles.php

 

(especially: "Planking tutorial - Lining off a hull")

 

Ian, keep on your good work!!!

 

Best regards

 

-Heinz-

[shihawk]

Hi Ian ,Unless i,m mistaken i think i see you already have line marks on you hull and have been using steelers at the bow section so i wouldn,t panic yet about the run of the planking although i don,t know how much prep you made for this???  having had problems with colors in Maple decking i was wondering could your problem be caused by simply turning the run of the grain ,otherwise i would agree with Heinz and replace  them as they will always haunt you .    It, a big hull to plank and there are bound to be problems but you are doing a great job!!!!

 

Boyd   

[Seventynet]

Thanks so much Heinz and Boyd for the kind words and realistic advice and others for the likes. I guess I didn't really want to hear it but knew it was right all along. However I'm afraid I can't peel the planks off (not sure if I'll be able to pry just those off or whether there'll be collateral damage) until I can find more suitable wood. I've actually spent quite a bit of time at our Calgary specialty wood stores trying to figure this out. I am most certainly out of luck picking up any European walnut which I believe must be that supplied with the kit. There only seems to be only west coast caro (sp?) and an eastern black walnut varieties available locally. 

 

In any case I'm still baffled because when I compare the 1 by 16 kit supplied walnut which I used for spiling to the non-spiled planks in place, there appears to be very little difference. The in-place spiled walnut looks more like black walnut. And before you question me, I am absolutely positive I did not mix up my black walnut. See picture. Boyd you must be right it must be a cross grain effect. In any case I need to figure this out.

 

Heinz, I get what you mean about bending. That is why I spiled those planks (see picture). However I may not fully understand your technique. Would you have made your planks so slender that they were able to bend in 2 planes? I know I can get away with slight lateral bends and even greater bends when the plank is tapered but it does not always seem the right way to go to me. Also I know that the shorter planks of 85 mm which I am using provide more opportunities for lateral bends and those spiled planks are in fact longer than 85 mm (for a variety of reasons). Maybe I'm just not understanding your technique.

 

Also, I have divided the hull up into 5 plank lateral battens but I only pencil in the individual planks one batten at a time because I have found that once I have completed one batten I am either a little fat or a little short and need to compensate in the next batten - if that makes sense. Anyway I've added a picture to hopefully show the battens more clearly.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Best, Ian