Who needs a ropewalk?

[CPT_D]

I'm really new to the hobby and just in the first stages or my model (Syren) and I have been getting the specialized tools needed for the hobby.  I have noticed that several people on the site say that they have and use a ropewalk; but what's the point?   The kit I have looks like it has nice "rope" (string) so why would I need a ropewalk?

 

 

[Ponto]

....scratch builders.........

 

jp

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Its hard to keep a comprehensive inventory of all the diameters of thread you are going to eventually need. Often you will have a spool of store bought thread that is just a little too thin and another that is just a tad too thick and you will then find yourself contemplating making your own line. I doubt anyone would go to the trouble of making their own line if there was something the right thickness available commercially. But sometimes the line you make yourself looks and feels better than a similar line you got at a store.The twists will be more pronounced or the lay will be harder.

[mtaylor]

I'm really new to the hobby and just in the first stages or my model (Syren) and I have been getting the specialized tools needed for the hobby.  I have noticed that several people on the site say that they have and use a ropewalk; but what's the point?   The kit I have looks like it has nice "rope" (string) so why would I need a ropewalk?

 

Don't rush out and get one...  yet.  Chuck sells a lot of different sizes.  At some point, as the others have pointed out, you'll want something different.  Maybe color or size, then it's time to think ropewalk.

[popeye2sea]

I think it would cost much less too make your own rope

[jbshan]

Some kits come with nylon line for rigging which I find hard to work with, and often only in a few sizes.  Cotton or linen works better, for my money.  You can try a vendor such as Chuck Passaro, of this list, he is reputed to have some nice stuff.  If you can't find the right size, and as you progress you'll learn to tell the difference, or you need some special line, anchor cable for instance, then it may behoove you to begin making your own.

[CPT_D]

Thanks everyone, if nothing else you all saved me some $$$.  Once I get to the rigging portion of my build I will likely determine at that time if I want/need a ropewalk at that time.  

 

The Admiral  told me that once I finished this kit and decide to do another, she would buy me Byrnes table saw.  I guess I could ad a ropewalk to that... I'm sure she won't mind...

 

Additionally, I am buying a serving machine as I completely understand the need for it.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Its easy enough to spin up short lengths of your own using a reversible power drill but it takes a bit of time and your line will have hockels in it at some point. But on the other hand all you need is a drill.  drive three hooks (or nails) within six inches of each other into a pice of scrapwood and clamp this on one end of a room. Call this board A.  Have another piece of scrapwood with two hooks in it and clamp this to a chair at the other end of your room. Call this board B. Chuck a hook or bent nail into your drill. Get three pieces of thread each with a loop knot tied at each end and make sure each piece of thread is as close to the same length as you can manage, long enough to stretch across most of the room. Hook one piece of thread onto a hook at board A and the other end on the hook on your drill and stand over by the chair behind board B so as to make the line tight but not too tight. Turn on the drill and spin the thread in such a way as to make it wind tighter, not unlay and become looser. Keep the speed low and the line tight. As you spin, the line will get shorter and you must move towards Board A slightly as the tension builds. You are winding up each thread, one at a time, like a rubber band. You are trying to get them all to the same degree of tightness, you would like to get them to all have been spun exactly the same number of times. When you judge the first line is tight enough, stop the drill and KEEPING THE LINE TIGHT take the loop off the hook on the drill and put it onto one of the two hooks on Board B on the chair, sliding the chair into a position that will assure constant tension on the line. Now do the same steps with the remaining two threads. When you finish spinning up your third thread, keep it on the drill. One at a time transfer the first two lines BACK ONTO the hook on your drill  not allowing either of them to untwist and KEEPING CONSTANT TENSION on all lines. You now have three very tight lines leading from the three hooks on board A onto the single hook on your drill.

Now reverse the direction of the drill and start it turning in the opposite direction. The three threads will start to lay up on each other and you will feel tension leaving the three strands, in fact you will have to move back in the opposite direction as the three lines start to slacken but you want them to remain tight. Keep turning until you have rope! 

THis is an imprecise method and there are many pitfalls that consist mainly of dropping your guard and allowing one two or all of the lines to slacken for a nanosecond. When this happens the slack line will instantly spin up on itself and its RUINED you will have to start over with new thread. Also you may want to keep an eye on the chair, it may be pulled over by the tension of the waiting spun up threads.

[robnbill]

When I was working on my Mamoli Constitution, I found I did not have enough of certain sizes to rig the ship in the manner I wanted, for these I purchased fantastic rope from Syren. However for the anchor hawsers I needed short lengths of very large line. For these I tried a rope walk that was on sale from Model Expo. It was cheap and an interesting very limited exercise. The rope walk was very inexpensive and broke almost as fast as I put it together but it server it's purpose - to teach me how they worked.

 

My current ship is a scratch build of the Brig Eagle. For that, I do plan on using a ropewalk. Probably the Byrnes ropewalk but I plan on making a lot of line for this ship and ones after. That is just me. 

 

However, if ME does put their Rope walk on sale you might try it. It will teach you to appreciate ropes. You might also want to look at a simple serving machine. These can be built pretty simply and no one supplies served rope. That has to be made. Not all ropes are served but it does add a nice touch to your model if you serve those that are normally served.

[Keith_W]

I think it would cost much less too make your own rope

 

It actually costs much less to buy it from Chuck. You would have to wind A LOT OF ROPE before it becomes economically feasible. Not to mention, having to shop for thread, learning to use the machine, botching up runs, and making the thread. For some on MSW, it may be worth it. But for me, I would much rather buy. 

[druxey]

Or, if so moved, you could cheaply cobble a ropewalk together for yourself from odds and ends.

 

You mention a Byrnes' saw. Unless you are planning on scratch or semi-scratch building, that might be overkill. You don't need a Rolls Royce to commute!

Edited August 15, 2015 by druxey

[jbshan]

Here is mine, along with some links to others.  The links are old and might not work.

 

http://uvsmgshipmodelguild.wikispaces.com/A+Ropewalk

[GuntherMT]

It actually costs much less to buy it from Chuck. You would have to wind A LOT OF ROPE before it becomes economically feasible. Not to mention, having to shop for thread, learning to use the machine, botching up runs, and making the thread. For some on MSW, it may be worth it. But for me, I would much rather buy. 

 

For me, it's as much about time.  Since I work full time, it is more than worth it to me to just purchase the rope I need from Chuck, and concentrate on building the model in the time I have to do hobby stuff, rather than make my own.  I just use the closest size to the size I need, and as long as it looks good, that's good enough for me, nobody is going to be measuring my rope to yell at me for using .018 instead of .021 line.

 

Some people enjoy making their own line, and that's cool, I'd rather work on wood or actually do the rigging instead of making the rope to make the rigging.  

[wq3296]

Greetings CPT...

 

I agree with you 100%. Why reinvent the wheel? I also agree that rigging line supplied with some kits may not be of the correct size, lay, or material, but replacement stuff is readily available from multiple sources. There really is no need to make your own rigging line, although some may feel the need to do so - different horses for different courses, right? Some folks mill their own lumber even though you can get everything (even exotic woods) from several suppliers. Like Chuck Berry said "anything you want we got it right here in the USA".

 

wq3296

[Ponto]

For me, it's as much about time.  Since I work full time, it is more than worth it to me to just purchase the rope I need from Chuck, and concentrate on building the model in the time I have to do hobby stuff, rather than make my own.  I just use the closest size to the size I need, and as long as it looks good, that's good enough for me, nobody is going to be measuring my rope to yell at me for using .018 instead of .021 line.

 

Some people enjoy making their own line, and that's cool, I'd rather work on wood or actually do the rigging instead of making the rope to make the rigging.  

All good points and pretty much my philosophy and thoughts on the subject,.... how do even measure and tell the difference between .018 and .021 line???

 

JP

[jhearl]

I happen to enjoy making my own rope and built a simple rope-making machine many years ago that has served me well. There are a couple of reasons I'm happy to make my own - one is to get the exact size I want. On the last model I built, if I recall correctly, I needed 11 different sizes and they simply weren't all available commercially. Of course, I'll admit it can be hard to tell the difference between close sizes and it's not likely anyone would notice on a finished model. I just like knowing for my personal satisfaction that I made and used accurate sizes. The other reason is if I was relying on commercial rope, it would require me to plan correctly to assure I have what I need when I need it and that might be asking a bit much. I'd hate to be in the middle of rigging and discover I was out of a size I needed. If I can make my own rope, it's easy and quick to do - no need to wait on the mail man.

 

Measuring the difference between .018 rope and .021 rope is actually pretty easy. Wrap the line around a dowel for a measured distance (say 1/2" or 1" depending on the thickness of the rope), count the number of turns and divide into the length. For example, if you're measuring .018 line over 1/2 inch, you would have about 27 or 28 turns. If you're measuring .021 line over 1/2 inch, you should have about 24 turns. There is some variability depending on how tightly you wrap the line (you don't want it stretched or too loose) but you can get pretty close. Trying to measure a piece of rope with calipers is more problematic because it's too easy to compress the rope as you're measuring.

 

Cheers -

John

[Ponto]

I happen to enjoy making my own rope and...

 

I appreciate the thought process, would never adopt it, but hmmmmmmmmmmmm,... having a little trouble "wrapping' my head around the method of measuring the differences between rope that is essentially the same. Depending on technique, I can see too many inconsistent variables creeping into the process...........

 

JP

[Chuck]

Its very difficult to measure rope using any method.  That technique of wrapping it around a dowel is not very good either.  There is too much variation depending on how tightly you wrap it.  It would flatten out the rope and distort it.   It is also hard to get a consistent space next to each revolution around the dowel.   One may be closer than another.  It may be squishing the wrap next to it etc.  If you did it ten times or asked two different people to measure the same rope that way you would never get the same measurement.

 

You would be surprised how sophisticated our software has become.   I use Corel Draw and Illustrator all of the time.   When you draw a line in either program its thickness is measured in points.  Lucky for us there are many conversion tables and apps that will convert points to inches.....or metric.  Whichever you prefer.

 

If you know that a line you need is .018" and you want to see what that exact thickness or diameter in our case is....then do the conversion.  

 

018" is equal to 1.296 points.   If you create a line in any of those programs and make it 1.296 points thick.....its pretty darn accurate.  You will know what a .018 size rope should be....

 

Here is a chart I have on my site for folks that need a more visual way to see what these sizes actually look like. 

 

http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/resources/ropesizechart.pdf

 

Its pretty darn on the money and I have one close by at all times when I make my rope.  Its leaps and bound the more accurate way with technology to measure rope accurately.   Also set your printer for the highest quality print job........

 

Maybe when I get some time I will create a new chart which contains even more size variations.  Maybe every .005" or something.  Here is a good inches to points conversion calculator.   Its the one I use.

 

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/length/points-to-inches.php

 

I will also make this a stand alone topic so its easier for folks to find when they search for the topic.

 

Chuck