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French Pre-Dreadnought Battleship Carnot


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I love these oddball funky looking pre-dreadnoughts.

 

There is a 1:200 scale card model of this available.

 

Cheers

Slog

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

HM Bark Endeavour (First Wood, On Hold)

Borodino (1:200 Card, Current Build)

Admiral Nakhimov (card 1/200)

Mazur D-350 Artillery Tractor (1:25 Card) 

F-8 Crusader (1:48 Aircraft, Plastic)

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And the spiffy paint job does so much for their appearance.

I would think the vast number of portholes would greatly diminish their pretenses at armour protection.

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You are probably right Charlie the problem is finding the plans and photos if they exist.  Those dreadnoughts did have a weird look.

David B 

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David, there's actually a fair amount of extant material on these ships, both plans and photos.  I don't think they get modeled very often, because they are, admittedly, kind of homely.

Chris Coyle
Greer, South Carolina

When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
- Tuco

Current builds: Brigantine Phoenix

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I love these oddball looking pre dreadnoughts. They would make an interesting subject to build.

 

 

You are probably right Charlie the problem is finding the plans and photos if they exist.  Those dreadnoughts did have a weird look.

David B 

 

 

David, there's actually a fair amount of extant material on these ships, both plans and photos.  I don't think they get modeled very often, because they are, admittedly, kind of homely.

 

I had this one and a couple of her sister ships on my wish list to build.

 

David, as I mentioned above these are available in 1:200 scale card models along with several Russian and Japanese ones of the same era.  They certainly have a certain appeal to them.

 

Cheers

Slog

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

HM Bark Endeavour (First Wood, On Hold)

Borodino (1:200 Card, Current Build)

Admiral Nakhimov (card 1/200)

Mazur D-350 Artillery Tractor (1:25 Card) 

F-8 Crusader (1:48 Aircraft, Plastic)

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Check out the folks at Kombrig, a Russian maker of resin ships in 1/350 and 1/700. They have a number of pre-dreadnoughts in their catalog. Here's their site: http://www.steelnavy.com/CombrigPage.htm

Ken

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild

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Combrig makes great models. Im hoping they do more American pre ww1 ships in 1/350.

Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale

 

Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress)

 

Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond...

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Until I saw the Carnot, I never thought any 19th century warship was ugly. What are all those square openings in the hull side, if not broadside ports? But they can't be broadside ports on a ship built that late. Windows for the crew? Why even put them in the side turret blisters, so close to the waterline? :)

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For those of you interested in bigger scales, check out Flagship Models, a purveyor of 1/192 scale ships and some bigger scales. All resin and photo-etch brass, primarily American Civil War era, but he does has an 1890s US torpedo boat aka destroyer. His address: http://www.flagshipmodels.com

Ken

Started: MS Bounty Longboat,

On Hold:  Heinkel USS Choctaw paper

Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1

Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section

 

Member Nautical Research Guild

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I love these things. So beautifully ugly. Not so much a swan as a pelican  . . or perhaps a dugong.

 

For an absolute feast of these ungainly beauties, see https://www.google.com.au/search?q=french+battleship+carnot&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=685&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwigu7mnpLrJAhXk26YKHc8_CZUQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_

 

Which confirms me in my original impression - one of Carnot's funnels was square!

Edited by Louie da fly
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This is one of the things I like about this thread.  The amount of discussion and information generated by one photo.

David B

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  • 2 years later...

So, I apologize about resurrecting this thread from 3 years ago - the Massena and Carnot are two ships that got me hooked on everything that is pre-dreadnaught!  

 

Anyways, I’m currently designing the USS Maine in fusion 3D for 3D printing at 1/72 and would like to do the same for the Carnot and Messena, I’ve collected quite a bit of photos and some drawings but haven’t located design details for the hulls.  I’d rather not eye-ball things so if anyone knows where I could get that information that would be wonderful!

 

many thanks - 

 

Haze Gray

My Current Builds:

The USS Maine - 1/72 3D printed Armored Cruiser (1889) USS OlympiaUSS TexasUSS New York, HSwMS TapperhetenCerbere 

 

Ships I am currently designing or have completed in Fusion 360:

German: SMS ScharnhorstSMS Kaiser Sweden: Svea, Gota, & Thule (both early and later versions), Flygia

France: French battleship Charles MartelDupuy de Lôme, Faucon (aviso), United States: USS Katahdin (1894) Ram ship, USS Monteray USS Oregon Japan: Mikasa, Fuso Russia: Izumrud, Novgorod Spain: Pelayo Great Britian: Turbinia (1894) - First ship with Steam TurbineHMS Edinburgh (1882) DenmarkTordenskjold

 

Ships I intend on designing & building in the future:

French JauréguiberryMassena Bouvet United StatesUSS Virginia USS Brooklyn, USS Minneapolis USS Ericsson
Russian:  Rossiya Peresvet Bayan SlavaTsesarevich 
BrazilRiachuelo SpainEmparador Carlos V


 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all,  I’ve finally tracked down most of the plans I’ve been looking for- I even found some good (enough) drawings for the Charles Martel though im still having more challenges finding hull lines for the Carnot ( even Russian sources dont seem to have them).  I’m getting ready to start printing the USS Main hull which will take about a week or so and in the meanwhile I can start on the Charles Martel hull in fusion 360.  

 

When I saw this pic of the Charles Martel I was instantly hook on the boat!

7D8586A6-3541-4A08-916F-FF7BCD218E13.jpeg

My Current Builds:

The USS Maine - 1/72 3D printed Armored Cruiser (1889) USS OlympiaUSS TexasUSS New York, HSwMS TapperhetenCerbere 

 

Ships I am currently designing or have completed in Fusion 360:

German: SMS ScharnhorstSMS Kaiser Sweden: Svea, Gota, & Thule (both early and later versions), Flygia

France: French battleship Charles MartelDupuy de Lôme, Faucon (aviso), United States: USS Katahdin (1894) Ram ship, USS Monteray USS Oregon Japan: Mikasa, Fuso Russia: Izumrud, Novgorod Spain: Pelayo Great Britian: Turbinia (1894) - First ship with Steam TurbineHMS Edinburgh (1882) DenmarkTordenskjold

 

Ships I intend on designing & building in the future:

French JauréguiberryMassena Bouvet United StatesUSS Virginia USS Brooklyn, USS Minneapolis USS Ericsson
Russian:  Rossiya Peresvet Bayan SlavaTsesarevich 
BrazilRiachuelo SpainEmparador Carlos V


 

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On 4/25/2018 at 3:17 PM, Talos said:

Not sure if it will have hull lines, but you'll want to get this book. I have the other books in the series and they're spectacular. https://www.amazon.com/French-Battleships-World-War-One/dp/1591146399

Talos - thank you!  -  I may (as in probably will) get that book - I did find a russian book that included hull lines for the Martel and had copies of most of the french ministry of defense drawings for carnot, messena, and Bouvet (which I already had) - I started lofting up the hull (see attached pic) I think photographs will be most of what I can use for reference since there's so few drawings of the Martel

 

I've already started on the Charles Martel as I'm about 80% done with the USS Maine (basically print out, fix tolerences, add some details, and then reprint a final model).  Basically I couldn't hold off starting the Martel, it is sooo cool!   The Messina will come next or maybe the USS Katahdin  

 

So many boats I want to do, so little time!

martelstart1.png

martelstart2.png

martelstart3.png

Edited by Haze Gray

My Current Builds:

The USS Maine - 1/72 3D printed Armored Cruiser (1889) USS OlympiaUSS TexasUSS New York, HSwMS TapperhetenCerbere 

 

Ships I am currently designing or have completed in Fusion 360:

German: SMS ScharnhorstSMS Kaiser Sweden: Svea, Gota, & Thule (both early and later versions), Flygia

France: French battleship Charles MartelDupuy de Lôme, Faucon (aviso), United States: USS Katahdin (1894) Ram ship, USS Monteray USS Oregon Japan: Mikasa, Fuso Russia: Izumrud, Novgorod Spain: Pelayo Great Britian: Turbinia (1894) - First ship with Steam TurbineHMS Edinburgh (1882) DenmarkTordenskjold

 

Ships I intend on designing & building in the future:

French JauréguiberryMassena Bouvet United StatesUSS Virginia USS Brooklyn, USS Minneapolis USS Ericsson
Russian:  Rossiya Peresvet Bayan SlavaTsesarevich 
BrazilRiachuelo SpainEmparador Carlos V


 

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Hi Folks, 

 

One last picture - more of the hull done.  I'll be switching over to the Scratch-build section from here on out,  but after the Charles Martel I'll be doing the USS Kathadin (a ram boat!) and then will return here and let you all know if I'm doing the Carnot.... or not.. (I'm too funny). 

 

 I'm so glad I found a group that can appreciate the pre-dreadnaughts!

martelstart4.png

My Current Builds:

The USS Maine - 1/72 3D printed Armored Cruiser (1889) USS OlympiaUSS TexasUSS New York, HSwMS TapperhetenCerbere 

 

Ships I am currently designing or have completed in Fusion 360:

German: SMS ScharnhorstSMS Kaiser Sweden: Svea, Gota, & Thule (both early and later versions), Flygia

France: French battleship Charles MartelDupuy de Lôme, Faucon (aviso), United States: USS Katahdin (1894) Ram ship, USS Monteray USS Oregon Japan: Mikasa, Fuso Russia: Izumrud, Novgorod Spain: Pelayo Great Britian: Turbinia (1894) - First ship with Steam TurbineHMS Edinburgh (1882) DenmarkTordenskjold

 

Ships I intend on designing & building in the future:

French JauréguiberryMassena Bouvet United StatesUSS Virginia USS Brooklyn, USS Minneapolis USS Ericsson
Russian:  Rossiya Peresvet Bayan SlavaTsesarevich 
BrazilRiachuelo SpainEmparador Carlos V


 

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  • 1 month later...
On 5/2/2018 at 10:21 AM, Roger Pellett said:

If I understand your drawings, the ship as depicted with its round bottom and extreme tumblrhome would have had stability problems.  While the tumblehome Is shown on the photos are you sure of the round bottom?

 

Roger

Hi Roger,

 

Pretty sure - I've attached some pictures of the launching of the Charles Martel + a hull slice from the aft section of the boat from the French Marine Society.  The actual ship may not have been that stable in real life!

435295_10_img_60.jpg

435295_10_img_61.jpg

435295_7_img_17 (1).jpg

My Current Builds:

The USS Maine - 1/72 3D printed Armored Cruiser (1889) USS OlympiaUSS TexasUSS New York, HSwMS TapperhetenCerbere 

 

Ships I am currently designing or have completed in Fusion 360:

German: SMS ScharnhorstSMS Kaiser Sweden: Svea, Gota, & Thule (both early and later versions), Flygia

France: French battleship Charles MartelDupuy de Lôme, Faucon (aviso), United States: USS Katahdin (1894) Ram ship, USS Monteray USS Oregon Japan: Mikasa, Fuso Russia: Izumrud, Novgorod Spain: Pelayo Great Britian: Turbinia (1894) - First ship with Steam TurbineHMS Edinburgh (1882) DenmarkTordenskjold

 

Ships I intend on designing & building in the future:

French JauréguiberryMassena Bouvet United StatesUSS Virginia USS Brooklyn, USS Minneapolis USS Ericsson
Russian:  Rossiya Peresvet Bayan SlavaTsesarevich 
BrazilRiachuelo SpainEmparador Carlos V


 

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  • 9 months later...
  • 4 years later...

I have been on a late 19th century binge lately.

 

The binge started with the Solferino (1860), one of two modernish battleships that were designed for a full broadside, and has expanded from there.

 

The Solferino’s hull was pierced for 96 gunports.

 

Only 55 were used as gunports, the rest were windows.

 

It is possible that the things that look like gunports on the Carnot were intended to look like gunports, but were actually windows, like the Solferino.

 

I have no idea why the French Admiralty would want a ship to look like it could deliver a full broadside after turret ships had obsoleted them, but it is a possibility that that may have been the intent.

Building: 1:64 HMS Revenge (Victory Models plans)

1:64 Cat Esther (17th Century Dutch Merchant Ships)
 

On the building slip: 1:72 French Ironclad Magenta (original shipyard plans)

 

On hold: 1:98 Mantua HMS Victory (kit bash), 1:96 Shipyard HMS Mercury

 

Favorite finished builds:  1:60 Sampang Good Fortune (Amati plans), 1:200 Orel Ironclad Solferino, 1:72 Schooner Hannah (Hahn plans), 1:72 Privateer Prince de Neufchatel (Chapelle plans), Model Shipways Sultana, Heller La Reale, Encore USS Olympia

 

Goal: Become better than I was yesterday

 

"The hardest part is deciding to try." - me

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