Charles W Morgan by Landlubber Mike - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - New Bedford Whaling Bark

[Martin W]

Nice work, Mike.  I especially like the strategy you used for counter -- very ingenious!  As for the ebony, I think that if you're using power tools, you avoid many of the issues caused by oily wood.  And I definitely, whole-heartedly agree that natural wood beats out painted or stained wood any day!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Brucealanevans]

Just a comment on the lettering. I used a word cell with black background and white or gold letters and put it on with modge-podge stuff, then flat clear over. 

One advantage is the choice of fonts to match the real Morgan. A  styilized italic "s" with strikethru style added gives you that divider character on the transom. 

You can see the result in my build.  If your ebony is true black it should work. 

Got the idea from John's Morgan build log. 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin, you should give ebony a shot.  It really is a beautiful wood.  I can always send you some if you want to try it out.  I think I'm using Gabon Ebony, which is jet black throughout, uniform, dense, no grain wood.

 

Thanks Bruce.  I bought some dry transfer letters and will try them out first, as I think there will be a slight difference in hue between wood and the paper.  The letters are going to be tricky though to get lined up right, particularly since the name plate on the transom has a slight curve.  I was also wondering what to do with that divider character - no dry transfer letters available for that one   A third option would be to see if I could order custom decals.  That would probably be the easiest/safest approach, though it's finding a vendor and hopefully not ending up with a high bill.

[Brucealanevans]

By the way, I think I made the separator character with an integral sign and strikethrough and italic styles applied. Can't recall for sure.

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Brucealanevans

[Blue Ensign]

Nice progress Mike, that  ebony finish is going to look great .

I too would take the higher copper line, and as for getting the Verdigris finish I understand urine is the way to go, who was it on MSW who made a great job using this method, having a senior moment, his name has slipped my mind.

Personally I quite like the old copper penny look. 

 

B.E.

[Mirabell61]

Pretty model Mike,

looks great...

 

Nils

[Seventynet]

I'm enjoying this work of yours Mike, especially your use of ebony. Lovely model.

 

Ian

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much guys, really appreciate the kind words.  Bruce, that's really helpful to figure out that character.

 

BE, I think you were referring to Alistair's Fly build where he used the, uh, personal fluids method?  On the Amati copper plates, it seemed to turn the copper a darker brown look - a look I'm planning to use for my Pegasus, but I'll just have to make sure that I don't eat asparagus before collecting the sample  

 

For the Morgan though, I love the green copper look against the black hull.  I haven't gotten very far in my research on how to emulate the green coppering in the models above.  It seems like paints might be the only way to accomplish an even tone across the plates.  What complicates things is that some copper materials (such as the tape supplied in MS kits) may have some sort of coating which limits the effect of some of the patina liquids.  Will need to do some experimentation.  What I can assure you all is that in no way will I use the approach that GMO2 mentioned of burying the hull in poop to achieve that look 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Landlubber Mike

[JohnB40]

Hi Mike,

Very nice work so far. I like the idea of a ship build that is not a warship for a change.

When Woodland Scenic lettering.... I used a really thin board in the right shape and color. Then sprayed it with Dullcote (if unsealed), transfered the letters and then another thin coat of Dullcote.

Thanks for the info on inserting text

[GMO2]

The dung deal was one I read about as a method to artificially age ornamental copper,which would have considerably more  mass than the 1 mil tape we get in these kits.I think one thing we have to be careful of in trying to achieve this effect by artificially accelerated means is the possibility of eating thru the tape in places if we are a little too aggressive in the chemical treatment.I tried the pee approach and only managed to dull the tape a little,but nothing like the old penny look.I plan to test out the wine method at the first opportunity,and a report on the results will be forthcoming.

[Elijah]

Hi Mike! The planking is looking very nice! Those are some very odd methods for oxidization mentioned above. maybe a light airbrushing or drybrushing would work? I'm no expert on this matter, so neither is guaranteed to work!

[GMO2]

Here's another method I just read,and this actually sounds like a practical approach,as opposed to carrying your hull out behind the barn.Someone was asking how to attain the greenish color on some copper panels on part o f their house,and were told that liquid miracle -gro for African Violets brushed on like paint and left in the sun for a day did the trick.Like you I want to find a simple method to do this,and this sounds like its worth pursuing.

Quote

 

 

[Beef Wellington]

Making this simple Mike, I think there are plenty of patination solutions available specifically aimed at a verdigris finish (rather than blackening) if that's the direction you want to go.  Have never tried any, but the jewelry market seems big on this.  Google search should give you plenty of options.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much guys, really appreciate all the thoughts.  

 

GMO, I agree on the need to be carefully using a chemical solution that would eat through the thin tape.  That would be a disaster for sure!  Jason, in addition to jewelry applications, I've seen stuff used for copper work in other applications like lamps, figurines, etc.  Like GMO, I plan to test out various products and approaches to see what works.  I have a feeling though that a paint approach might be the best to achieve that look.

[GMO2]

In further pursuit of this subject,I visited a site provided by Coppersmith,which explores the process of copper oxidation and patination in some detail.The best sounding technique appears once more to involve miracle-gro (not specifically for violets).For a bluish patina mix with one part to three of water and ,for our purposes ,brush on.For a green patina mix the Miracle-gro with a one part to three parts of red wine vinegar solution and brush on.They said the color would show up in as little as 30 minutes and become permanent in 24 hours.An experiment is in order,looking mainly for two things to begin with,one being the presence of a coating on the tape that would prevent the reaction,the other being the possibility of the solution having an adverse effect on the tape's adhesive coating by seeping under the edges . To do this I would prepare a surface exactly as I would my hull for application of the tape,maybe 3 or 4 inches square,apply the copper,then the solution and see what happens.Assuming it  works,the next concern is how much solution is required for the desired color and whether,and how if needed,to arrest and fix the process without altering the color.The greenish tint appears to be a result of refraction more than reflection,and wetting it makes it dark brown until it dries again.I imagine that this will end up with learning how to apply just enough solution to finally attain the desired results without  adversely affecting the thin copper,or having to apply any further coatings that could undo our efforts.Still a knotty little problem isn't it?

[Landlubber Mike]

Sure is GMO2.  Do you mind sharing the results of your tests?  I will certainly do the same when I get to them.  Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and research on this very interesting topic!

[GMO2]

I will be glad to share any results I get,but unfortunately I have no means to upload  pictures from this old laptop.Perhaps I could send some to you on  our cellphone and you can post them. I plan to work on this idea in the next few days,as soon as I get back from a short trip.

[GMO2]

One final thought on this for awhile.Where.other than amongst a collection of ship modelers, would you find a bunch  of guys sitting around discussing how to turn the bottom of their boats green without resorting either to a trip to the paint store or the pig pen?It all seems perfectly normal to me because I long ago learned to appreciate the mental stimulation afforded by eccentricity.

[GMO2]

Mike,      I have done a brief initial test of a 1-3 mixture of miracle gro to red wine vinegar.The miracle-gro I have is called shake 'n feed,and consists of granules like regular fertilizer.I just put it in the vinegar and let it dissolve a little and stirred it repeatedly with a q-tip.I then coated one side of a shiny penny .After a short while,maybe an hour, it is dull and  has a definite greenish cast already. I then put some on a piece of tape left from coppering my  Morgan.The first thing I noticed is a tendency to puddle and give a splotchy effect,although it did dull it quickly.I have slightly roughened the surface with some  4 ought steel wool to improve the uniformity of wetting.It was  almost immediately dulled and appears more evenly spread than before.Next,I am going  to prepare another mixture by grinding the granules as finely as I can before adding the vinegar.Then I am going  to make a pattern of copper tape just as if it was on a hull,rough it gently with steel wool,and apply that solution.That will happen next week,as I have to leave again for a day or two.What I can tell you is that this works,and will give a greenish patina to copper in a short time.I am quite certain it will work on CC and Amati's individual plates as I understand they are applied one at the time after being coated with adhesive,meaning this can be done well in advance of application.The copper tape is going to require a little experimentation to get it just right.At least we have something of a beginning.           Gary

[mobbsie]

Hi Mike,

 

I'm loving this discussion on patination, I'm seriously thinking of doing the same on my Pickle when I get started so will be doing some experimenting myself.

 

Gonna be interesting.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[paulsutcliffe]

anybody any ideas for doing the same greenish patination on brass, miracle gro doesn't work already tried that

Edited September 29, 2017 by paulsutcliffe

[Landlubber Mike]

Gary, thanks so much for passing along your test results.  It sounds like a very effective method - very promising.  One thing I'm curious about with all these methods is what does the oxidation do to the copper.  Does the oxidation form at the surface, and go no further (which is what I think happens with aluminum, though I'm no expert), or does it continue all the way through the copper if left unchecked (sorta like what happens when iron starts rusting).  Especially in the latter case, it would be great if there was a way to stop the chemical process once you get to a point that you are satisfied with.

 

Mobbsie!  It's been a long time my friend and fellow Badger Brother.  Hope all is well with you.  I'm looking forward to your Pickle build!

[GMO2]

So far the copper tape sample has sat for a week and seems to have stabilized.I have a piece of basswood ready for applying a pattern of plates and will then  try two solutions,one with vinegar,one with water.The water alone mix is supposed to give a bluish tint,more like model 2 above.We'll see.       Gary

[GMO2]

Paul. I don't know why it wont work on brass,the main component being copper. It may be that what you have is actually phosphor bronze,as opposed to real brass.I have a couple of replicas of mid 19th century rifles made with that. The originals often exhibit that greenish patina,being really brass. Try as I might,I cant get a similar patina on the replicas artificially.I have read that someone is reported to have done it,but how I don't know.        Gary

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Gary - looking forward to the results!

[GMO2]

After some experimentation I can say that you can turn the copper tape green using the Miracle-Gro technique.However,whether you would really want to employ this on your model is another matter altogether.In the first place the results are quite delicate and easily ruined by a careless touch,the natural skin oil being the culprit here,at least in  my case.For the same reason I don't know of any way to apply a fixative that doesn't have a wetting effect which also ruins your results.While this can be used to accelerate the aging of your copper sheathing,I really think you would be better served to resort to some of the wash techniques employed by the guys doing plastic models.Some incredibly realistic finishes have resulted from their applications.Maybe the best possible solution would be to age the copper with the miracle gro mix applied in a weaker solution,followed by a green tinted wash with a dull clear coat over that.Give it a try and see what you think.I am looking forward to watching your Morgan develop.Mine is approaching the rigging stage,relieved by a whaleboat now and then.Happy experimenting!                                              Gary

[mobbsie]

Hi Mike,

 

I made a few tests all with varying degrees of success and failure, the upshot is that I will not be using artificial aids to bring about patination.

 

I used Caldercraft's individual plates on my last test, I painted them with a Red Wine Vinegar and Miracle Grow, I got a good colour on them but after about a week it started to chip off leaving a dirty brown base metal beneath, not a good look.

 

It could I suppose be argued that when a colour your happy with has been reached it could be sprayed with a lacquer to stop further reaction (not tried), but I have decided to put this one on the shelf until it raises it's head again.

 

I'm going to plate Pickle, rub the plates with wire wool and leave the atmosphere to do the rest.

 

I will with your permission post a picture to show my best result, but even this has started to peel since the picture was taken.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[GMO2]

I tried a couple of things to see if I could apply a fixative to arrest and preserve the green effect,satin poly,and clear dope in the form of clear fingernail polish.Both had the same wetting effect,turning the verdigris dark brown,almost black.This is basically what happens to ornamental copper with verdigris patina when it gets wet.When it dries,the green patina is evident again.As I understand it ,this is because the wetting interferes with the refractive nature of verdigris until it evaporates.In the case of a fixative application.this interference is permanent.thereby ruining your efforts at patination.This is why I think that experimenting with various green pigmented washes,wet or dry,followed by a dull clear topcoat will prove more rewarding in the end.

[rdsaplala]

Hi Mike,

 

Just catching up, beautiful work, my friend, she's coming along beautifully, I love the robust shape of the CW Morgan

[Landlubber Mike]

GMO and Mobbsie, so sorry to have missed your posts on this log.  I was so focused on my Renommee that I neglected to look here.  Thank you for sharing your techniques!  Mobbsie (and GMO), no worries at all about asking permission to post pictures on my log - the more the merrier!  I would love to see the results of your work.

 

Aldo, thank you very much for the kind words.  The Morgan is a nice subject - long history, you can see it at Mystic Seaport in Connecticut (it was recently refurbished - not sure if that is the right term), and it's something other than the multi-cannon subjects typically seen.  Lots of cool and interesting details that go along with these whalers too, like the tryworks.  It's been a nice learning experience building this ship because like most MS kits, this one requires you to add framing pieces, whereas the European manufacturers tend to use things like gunport strips and the like to make things easier for the builder.  

 

It's also been nice working on this subject because I'm going to get to "paint with wood" - though, we will see how well that turns out.